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Author Topic: Children aren't even manipulated this easily...  (Read 3382 times)
SgtMaj
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« on: May 19, 2009, 03:03:44 AM »

Just how nutty our previous president was:http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090518/pl_afp/usiraqpoliticsreligionrumsfeld_20090518141801

Even if Yahoo IS a biased source.   rolleyes
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 06:49:57 AM »

There is evil in this world.  It is the duty of good men (and countries) to fight this evil. 

What's your beef?  Is it using passages from the Bible?  Read your American history, my friend.  Many presidents sought guidance from and used passages from the Bible while the country was at war.
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lmehaffey
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 07:39:24 AM »

Oh, well...every comedian has to have a second banana -- Bush got Rumsfeld and "Birdshot" Cheney; Obama's got "Trip-lip" Biden.

Shame that this stuff's not on reality TV -- at least they could be voted off the show before they do too much damage.
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It is what it is.......except when it isn't.
SgtMaj
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 09:07:22 AM »

There is evil in this world.  It is the duty of good men (and countries) to fight this evil. 

What's your beef?  Is it using passages from the Bible?  Read your American history, my friend.  Many presidents sought guidance from and used passages from the Bible while the country was at war.

Yet none of them had defense briefings that used out of context religious passages to not only justify but also persuade the president into commiting to unjust actions. 

On a side-note, I bet you wouldn't feel the same way if it were the Quo'ran that was being quoted... funny how the same shoe in a different color suddenly feels uncomfortable on your feet, isn't it?
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 09:22:54 AM »

You assume much, SgtMaj.

Seems like people still suffer from Bush Derangement Syndrome.  Time to look closely at what this president is doing.  Can't do anything about the previous ones.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 09:31:32 AM »

I'm not really big on religion, but Islamic nutjobs have been the worldwide aggressors twice in less than a thousand years.
not to mention that quran passage about converting people at the point of  sword.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 10:06:47 AM »

Quote
Yet none of them had defense briefings that used out of context religious passages to not only justify but also persuade the president into commiting to unjust actions. 


how do you know and why is it out of context?
what are the sources for this story?
"unjust" is your opinion.

go back and look at Lincolns speeches before and during the civil war.  look at the writings of the founders before the war for independence.

yes, i would be offended if the koran were used.  this country was founded on judeo-christian values, not islamic values. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SgtMaj
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 09:49:37 PM »

I'm not really big on religion, but Islamic nutjobs have been the worldwide aggressors twice in less than a thousand years.

Not to get picky... but so have Christians.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 09:52:33 PM »

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Not to get picky... but so have Christians

just for fun, can you give some examples?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SgtMaj
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 10:09:52 PM »

Quote
Not to get picky... but so have Christians

just for fun, can you give some examples?

Just for fun, why not. 
There were the crusades which were started in 1095, 1147, 1187, 1202, 1209, 1228, 1248, 1270 and finally again in 1271
The spanish inquisition (ok, maybe not technically war against nations, but certainly against people)
The peasants war of 1524...

bah, early times are boring since it could be said that the religion has pacified.... so let's get modern... how about WWII, at least for Hitler's part in it (once again Godwin's law is proven)... and with this article it can now be said that Iraq may have been as well.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 10:18:02 PM »

the crusades were a countercrusade. Islam had marched all the way into Spain - have a look at the architecture. the christian crusades were a defensive war to drive them back.
in addition, as I said I'm no fan of religion anyway, but at least sort the propaganda from fact.
 
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 10:28:39 PM »

you have no proof that the article is accurate.  even if it were, we did not start the war with iraq, we only finished it late.  since saddam at least gave lip service to islam and swore to destroy israel and the us, our going back to enforce the cease fire could be called a defensive move against an islamic radical.

hitler and his buddies were heavily into the occult.  he may have worshiped A god, but what he called god is in question. 

the peasant war was a popular uprising against the church and the nobility.  it had more to do with taxes and land.  it certainly was not started because of some christian fervor on the part of the peasants and land owners.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SgtMaj
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 10:34:50 PM »

the crusades were a countercrusade. Islam had marched all the way into Spain - have a look at the architecture. the christian crusades were a defensive war to drive them back.
in addition, as I said I'm no fan of religion anyway, but at least sort the propaganda from fact.
 

Which Islamic army set foot anywhere in Europe at that time?
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 10:36:38 PM »

Spain isn't Europe?
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »

besides, the crusades were about protecting pilgrims going to Jerusalem and taking back Jerusalem after the muslims captured it.   also about driving the muslims back from what was left of the roman empire.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SgtMaj
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 10:54:04 PM »

you have no proof that the article is accurate.  even if it were, we did not start the war with iraq, we only finished it late.  since saddam at least gave lip service to islam and swore to destroy israel and the us, our going back to enforce the cease fire could be called a defensive move against an islamic radical.

So you're saying we should go to war against anyone that preaches Islam?  Wait, were you trying to say this wasn't religion based with that arguement?  And defending against speech??  Really?  That's a sad arguement, even for a republican. Cheesy

hitler and his buddies were heavily into the occult.  he may have worshiped a god, but what he called god is in question.

You may not like it, but what he called god is what you call god, he may have been twisted, but he still believed in the christian god. 

the peasant war was a popular uprising against the church and the nobility.  it had more to do with taxes and land.  it certainly was not started because of some christian fervor on the part of the peasants and land owners.

So take it out of the equasion if you want... doesn't matter, I listed far more than just two inside of a 1000 year span... so it doesn't really matter if you want to ignore the religious aspects to that one particular war.

By the way, I believe we were originally just talking about christians who started wars, not necessarily wars for christian reasons, which means the list could be expanded to cover most of the wars in the last 1000 years.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 10:55:40 PM »

Spain isn't Europe?

Spain is not an islamic army, I said NAME THE ARMY, not name the county that you already named. 
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dragonfly
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2009, 10:57:17 PM »

I don't practice any organized religion, but am fairly well-versed in several (religion has been a study of mine for 30 years). I'll take a religious man who wears it on his sleeve anyday over a man who has many faces and tries to be all things to all people.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2009, 10:57:52 PM »

besides, the crusades were about protecting pilgrims going to Jerusalem and taking back Jerusalem after the muslims captured it.   also about driving the muslims back from what was left of the roman empire.

So you're agreeing with me now?  Seems to me like you're giving a pretty good definition of what would constitute a war that was started by christians and to further christian interests.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 10:58:10 PM »

[...]By the way, I believe we were originally just talking about christians who started wars, not necessarily wars for christian reasons, which means the list could be expanded to cover most of the wars in the last 1000 years.

I thought I was only saying that christians don't have the violent aggressive conquering religious nutjob market all to themselves - don't make me drag ancient china into this.
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