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Author Topic: Hunting after the Obama Gun Ban  (Read 5385 times)
1reb
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« on: May 18, 2009, 05:20:49 PM »





Got this picture in an email

Johnny
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 05:32:37 PM »

that is outstanding!  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 07:34:32 PM »

 grin
Maybe you should get in on the groundfloor of manufacturing them. grin
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1reb
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 10:10:30 PM »

That might be a excellence Ideal
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 11:17:23 PM »

What is the Obama gun ban?  I hadn't heard of any new firearm restrictions since he took office.  Do you know of some that I don't?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 11:32:51 PM »

What is the Obama gun ban?  I hadn't heard of any new firearm restrictions since he took office.  Do you know of some that I don't?

Not enacted yet, he's currently trying to get a treaty ratified that would require the US to share gun ownership information with other North, Central, and South American countries.  The joke is that a gun restriction of some kind is just a matter of time with Obama.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 12:00:36 AM »

if we sign on to the UN small arms treaty, we will come under international law instituted by the UN.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 12:57:37 AM »

Thanks.  I was unfamiliar with that.  But it doesn't look all that bad to me either... here's what it says (from worldnetdaily, dunno if you consider that a liberal source or not):

Quote
All small arms and light weapons which are not under legal civilian possession and which are not required for the purposes of national defense and internal security, should be collected and destroyed by States as expeditiously as possible.

All States should determine in their national laws and regulations which arms are permitted for civilian possession and the conditions under which they can be used.

All States should ensure that they have in place adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the legal possession of small arms and light weapons and over their transfer in order ... to prevent illicit trafficking.

States are encouraged to integrate measures to control ammunition ... into prevention and reduction measures relating to small arms and light weapons.

States should work towards ... appropriate national legislation, regulations and licensing requirements that define conditions under which firearms can be acquired, used and traded by private persons. In particular, they should consider the prohibition of unrestricted trade and private ownership of small arms and light weapons specifically designed for military purposes, such as automatic guns (e.g., assault rifles and machine-guns).

The only one that looks like it could change anything in the US is the last one... and quite frankly I have to agree somewhat with it, at least in as much as a background check should be required for private sales as well as retail sales.  Of course, the UN directive goes beyond that to say that states should work toward banning those sales, but as long as it's not mandatory, then I don't see a problem with it.... much as I dislike the UN under Annon.  The US already abides by the rest of those so there would be no change.
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 01:13:18 AM »

http://www.iansa.org/un/ATTresn_Dec09.pdf.pdf

when you read this and other un docs on arms control, understand that they claim to recognize the right of the state to keep arms for self defense.  they do not recognize the right of the individual to keep arms.  they have been at this for a long time.  usually we get a sanitized synopsis of what they say.  never a transcript, and rarely a complete report.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 01:27:26 AM »

http://www.iansa.org/un/ATTresn_Dec09.pdf.pdf

when you read this and other un docs on arms control, understand that they claim to recognize the right of the state to keep arms for self defense.  they do not recognize the right of the individual to keep arms.  they have been at this for a long time.  usually we get a sanitized synopsis of what they say.  never a transcript, and rarely a complete report.


Really?  So how do you interpret this:
"Reaffirming the inherent right of all States to individual or collective self-defence in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter,"

Or this:
"and commends all States to carefully consider how to achieve such implementation in order to ensure that their national systems and internal controls are at the highest possible standards to prevent the diversion of conventional arms from the legal to the illicit market"

Seems to me like they do recognize the right for any individual that is legally allowed to keep arms.  It looks to me more like this is about preventing the transfer of guns from people who have a legal right to keep arms to people who do not.  Seems reasonable enough to me. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 01:48:05 AM »

Quote
"Reaffirming the inherent right of all States to individual or collective self-defence in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter,"


state=country  collective=something like NATO

Quote
"and commends all States to carefully consider how to achieve such implementation in order to ensure that their national systems and internal controls are at the highest possible standards to prevent the diversion of conventional arms from the legal to the illicit market"


one way to do that is to make gun inaccessible.  you could begin to do that with something like this:  http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

if you read through all of the UN stuff on guns, you'll find that the goal is to take weapons from individuals.  of course they have to present it in a reasonable way.  who wants to see nut balls running around killing innocents? 

there are two ways to bring about radical social change.  one is to have a revolution.  the other is to convince people that what you are doing is "reasonable" and in everyones best interest.  the way to evaluate change is to understand the beliefs of the people advocating the change, and to be able to extrapolate the possible outcomes of the change.  it's called lateral thinking.  you rip a thing apart so that you can put it back together every which way and see all the ways it can impact your life.  it takes a little practice.
"
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 02:22:05 AM »

Quote
"Reaffirming the inherent right of all States to individual or collective self-defence in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter,"


state=country  collective=something like NATO

Quote
"and commends all States to carefully consider how to achieve such implementation in order to ensure that their national systems and internal controls are at the highest possible standards to prevent the diversion of conventional arms from the legal to the illicit market"


one way to do that is to make gun inaccessible.  you could begin to do that with something like this:  http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

if you read through all of the UN stuff on guns, you'll find that the goal is to take weapons from individuals.  of course they have to present it in a reasonable way.  who wants to see nut balls running around killing innocents? 

there are two ways to bring about radical social change.  one is to have a revolution.  the other is to convince people that what you are doing is "reasonable" and in everyones best interest.  the way to evaluate change is to understand the beliefs of the people advocating the change, and to be able to extrapolate the possible outcomes of the change.  it's called lateral thinking.  you rip a thing apart so that you can put it back together every which way and see all the ways it can impact your life.  it takes a little practice.
"


Sounds like tinfoil hat thinking to me... at least in this case.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 09:14:25 AM »

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 09:16:13 AM »

Its funny how everybody talks about how Star Trek was so ahead of the times with its predictions of gadgets and technology.

I think that Star Wars is probably much better at predicting government structure.
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Rick
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 09:18:17 AM »

I like the picture, but I don't know what we're going to do here in Michigan...baiting is illegal!!!

Hmmm...maybe rope them like the cowboys? Well...ropes are dangerous too.....
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Rick
kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 10:12:14 AM »

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
1reb
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 08:50:48 PM »

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington

This Quote in on my email

Johnny

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SgtMaj
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2009, 09:31:19 PM »

a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Are you trying to say that you think fellons and the seriously mentally disturbed (diagnosed paranoid schizo types)... should be carrying guns?
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kathyp
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2009, 09:54:40 PM »

is that not already addressed by laws?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SgtMaj
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 10:32:02 PM »

is that not already addressed by laws?

Well kind-of... except that there's currently no real way to enforce those laws on private sales until the perp. commits another crime... 

But I really just wanted to know if Jerry was hinting that the existing laws should be repealed. 
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