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Author Topic: Advice needed .  (Read 1539 times)
Adam james
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« on: May 18, 2009, 08:38:46 AM »

Hello , My name is Adam and i have a Ob hive. I started it with a 5 frame nucleus last year and it done brilliant. That was until winter when it went into hibernation. The queen stopped laying in September and started again in December for a week then stopped again. There was a small golf ball sized patch of brood on each side of a frame over December and then the queen started egg laying up again in February slowly increasing to about a fist sized patch of brood on each side of the frame. The worker population went down until a few hundred and has stayed that low. The queen didn't seem to increase the brood space and just kept the colony population level. Well i have bought 3 frames of brood covered in bees and added it to the colony. I caged the queen first and put them inside. After a day of balling the cage i looked in to find the cage empty and a ball of workers on one of the brood frames. I assumed the queen would be dead but looking on today i can see her walking about the brood combs with workers in a ring around her.

Here's my problem , I'm not sure if the queen is gonna do OK , i feel she is hindering the colony. I have noticed a queen cup in the middle of her newest laid brood and it has a tiny larva in it and is full of a whitish liquid I'm assuming royal jelly. I'm just wondering if this was made because the queen was caged and then balled or is this a supersede cell. If so could i ask wot will happen ? Id like a new young queen and being as this colony was a fantastic temperament and really docile i wanted a queen of her own eggs.

Any ideas ??

Thankyou so much

Adam 
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Robo
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 09:07:40 AM »

An observation hive doesn't have the resources to rear quality queens

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/can-you-afford-emergency-queens/

Personally,  I like to put a slow/lazy queen in my OH,  less maintenance pulling/adding frames.
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 09:27:23 AM »

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An observation hive doesn't have the resources to rear quality queens

maybe, but if you have put a couple of good frames of brood and a nuc size number of workers, i think they do fine....as long as there are the drone resource in the area. 

if your hive were mine, i'd be tempted to take the queen out and make a nuc.  a few hundred bees won't be able to take care of enough brood to build your hive up.  if you make a nuc, you can replace your bees.  in the mean time, you can watch the evolution of a queen cell.  when she's out and mated, you can remove her and make a nuc with her and some of the workers from your 1st nuc before you put the rest in the OB hive.

clear as mud??  smiley

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Adam james
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 10:01:45 AM »

Hello maybe i worded it wrong , my colony was small only a few hundred but i have added 3 full frames of sealed brood and full of workers covering the brood. since i added these i have noticed the queen cup. There were actually two with tiny larva in royal jelly but i have seen the queen hanging around one of the queen cups and going in it head first Huh maybe she killing larva Huh
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 10:33:18 AM »

this sounds like an opportunity to watch and learn.  i am kind of into "don't mess with it", but that's just me...........
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 12:43:10 PM »

I agree, just wait and watch.  They can produce a fine queen in there, maybe not a 400lb- surplus-quality  queen, but definately observation-hive-quality.  If you want you can kill the old one and them them go with the new ones.

I let mine raise an emergency queen with only 2 frames of bees and she's going on year 3.
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Adam james
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 09:49:42 AM »

Thankyou for your advice i will just observe for now.

Regards

Adam
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Davepeg
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 09:57:56 AM »

An observation hive doesn't have the resources to rear quality queens

Robo,
Why do you say an observation hive does not have the resources to rear quality queens?  We have one observation hive and I'm still learning the differences between managing an OB hive and a traditional hive.

Peg
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 12:28:44 PM »

Robo,
Why do you say an observation hive does not have the resources to rear quality queens?  We have one observation hive and I'm still learning the differences between managing an OB hive and a traditional hive.

Peg

There needs to be an abundance of young bees to produce copious amounts of royal jelly and wax.  Most cell builders are 2 or 3 deeps.  I only did a quick look, but the only thing I found that talked about minimum resource was 8 frames thickly covered with bees for a small amount of cells.  Most observation hive (and nucs for that matter) have far less than that.

Quote from: Raising Honey Bee Queens Written by Khalil Hamdan
A queen-raising colony should be vigorous and have a lot of young bees at age suitable for feeding larvae and constructing queen cells, that is between 5 and 20 day old bees. A single hive body is used when only a small number of queen cells are to be raised, and should have at minimum eight combs thickly covered with bees. Weak colonies produce inferior queens and are unsuitable for queen raising.

Just because they CAN raise a queen doesn't make it a good quality queen.  Bees will attempt to raise a queen from drone eggs if given no other choice.

You can successfully walk across an Interstate every day of your life,  but it surely doesn't mean you will live a long productive life tongue

I'll stick with my premise that the true quality of a queen doesn't become evident until Fall/Winter when the poor queens fail, which coincidentally is the worse time for it to happen.  I'll even be bold enough to say successful supercedure/emergency queens are not as common in feral hives as people think they are.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 12:44:15 PM »

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I'll even be bold enough to say successful supercedure/emergency queens are not as common in feral hives as people think they are.


that's probably true.  i don't often find queen cells in cutouts from well established hives.  it would be interesting to know if those who do more cutouts than i, see the same.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 01:19:57 PM »

I only find them right around swarm season, and they are usually farther along than any hives I have building swarm cells.   An established feral hive gets a new queen from a swarm cell at least once a year.
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 01:25:44 PM »

sorry, should have written that supercedure cell, not queen cell.....

one hive i'd love to have a look at, is a tree hive i know of that throws 3 or 4 swarms a year.  i got one of them last  year with a virgin queen.  it was a little swarm.  only a couple of frames.  it is my biggest hive this year.  i'd love to see what's going on in there  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Adam james
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 02:15:09 AM »

Hello  Guys i hope I'm not being a pest  Sad . The Ob hive is doing well. The queen is not so well , she has been accepted by the workers but i have witnessed her laying poorly. She will place her adomen into a cell and lay but when she come out there is usually no egg in the bottom. She is laying thou as there are eggs in the cells. As regards to the queen cups there were two , one of them i witnessed the queen going into the cup and shortly afterwords the cell was torn down. The other one is being drawn out more and i can see a larva in a mass of royal jelly in the bottom. I noticed the larva on sunday so I'm assuming it should be capped by this sunday ??

I am having problems with them storing honey all around the brood. They have a small super on top that contains one drawn out frame and two frames of foundation. I fed them a jar of sugar syrup to help them settle in and it made the storing worst. Is there anything i could do to free up the cells ?

Thankyou

Regards

Adam
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