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Author Topic: Got my dipping pot!!  (Read 5329 times)
gaucho10
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2009, 07:28:07 PM »

I would also like to get your source for this information.  I have been doing carpentry work for over 30 yrs. and I have treated all sorts of wood with different types of preservatives.  I have used bees wax but I don't believe that beeswax can liquefy to a "fine" liquid long enough to enter the "fine" pores of most type of wood.  Could you divulge your source?  I'm sure that if your source is legit I still won't be able to dip my white oak office desk into a wax container but I might be able to treat the wood before it goes onto my saw table.
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

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mgmoore7
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2009, 10:00:23 PM »

What is the source of your information for the no preheating method, I would like to look into it more.

cundald

I don't recall where, but I have read that some don't heat the oil but soak it for many hours.  With the oil heated the time per dipping is 3-15 minutes depending on the temperature and if you are wanting to kill any AFB. 
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Doby45
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2009, 12:20:18 PM »

I would also like to get your source for this information.  I have been doing carpentry work for over 30 yrs. and I have treated all sorts of wood with different types of preservatives.  I have used bees wax but I don't believe that beeswax can liquefy to a "fine" liquid long enough to enter the "fine" pores of most type of wood.  Could you divulge your source?  I'm sure that if your source is legit I still won't be able to dip my white oak office desk into a wax container but I might be able to treat the wood before it goes onto my saw table.
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2009, 01:15:45 PM »

Beekeepers have been dipping woodenware for many, many years.  How about doing some searching on the Internet and these forums.  Go over the beesource.com forums and search and you will find lots more info.  You are asking for a "source" as if this practice is questionable.  It is not.  I beleive it would be much more common if the costs and storage of equipment was not a barrier to entry.  For a small setup, $500-750 is needed to have have a tank built, buy the wax/rosin, fuel, burner, etc.  Then, it is not as easy do just go do a few boxes.  It is better suited to larger operations that do alot at one time.  Once the investment is made, the amount of wax that is actaully used is very minimal and thus the long term cost is low as well especially since it won't have to be redone.

Here is a website with some info.  He dips in beeswax & tree rosin.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm

And another.
http://www.bobsbeekeeping.com.au/uploads/tips/Hot%20Wax%20Dipping%20of%20Beehives.pdf
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Doby45
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2009, 02:48:52 PM »

You could not have said it better Matt and that is actually what I was saying in my previous post, but I was typing that on my iPhone and evidently the text I typed did not come through.  Google is your friend Gaucho..
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2009, 03:07:12 PM »

I think you might have misinterpreted Gaucho's question.  It seemed to me that she wasn't necessarily questioning the efficacy of dipping so much as the statement that it penetrates deeply into the wood making it better than other treatments.  Which mostly likely it does not penetrate deeply into wood.  I've seen studies in boatbuilding journals about the penetrating depth of epoxies. Granted these aren't molten wax/rosin mixtures, but I think there is some value in the comparison.  Keep in mind they are talking about high quality epoxies like system 3 or west system.  These epoxies are very thin unless you choose to thicken them with a filling agent.  The studies found that much like other coatings the epoxies fail to penetrate very deeply into the wood(we're talking minuscule depths).  Which was a common notion as to why they were so much stronger than other bonding agents.  So it is unlikely that wax/rosin gets it's longevity of performance from it's depth of penetration.  That doesn't mean it doesn't work or isn't worth it.  Just that the "common sense" explanation for how/why it works isn't valid. IMO people have a right to question the validity or source of imformation from someone who posted a statement, without being told to google it.  Not that i"m against people doing there own research because I think they should, but if we make a statement without attributing it to another source it is ours to defend.
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2009, 03:24:46 PM »

doby45

Did you consider using bricks or landscape pavers to fill the middle void.  That is what I was planning.  I would think that bricks would hold the heat well and they could be added/removed one by one to easily keep the level appropriate.
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Doby45
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2009, 03:56:02 PM »

I am looking at making a "void" filler for my pot.  Originally I was gonna grab a ammo can that is tall and squarish and fill it with sand and be done with it. The more I thought of it though I decided to build a wooden box from regular ole pine and fill it with something that will negate it buoyancy and that way I can build it exactly to the dimension I want.  I also want the filler box to more or less sit on some little legs so that it will leave a pool of wax/rosin in the bottom that can be heated evenly and moved around.  It would be easier to show/explain than to type it all out.  But the wooden box would just continually get dipped and should be fine.
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gaucho10
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2009, 05:44:27 PM »

Thank you fermentedhiker...my thoughts exactly.
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
cundald
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2009, 08:23:10 AM »

Check out the bobsbeekeeping.com.au/ site it does mention on the top of page 6 about having the temperature of the wood

"The key to successful hot wax dipping is to have the timber very hot.  At this point, the moist, sap and air in the timber is replaced by molten wax.  One apiarist advised: 'If you don't heat your timber to the same temperature as the wax you won't dry it out'."

I am looking forward to having you dip some of my hives in the future and want you to have the best chance of success.

cundald
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The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others.
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Doby45
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2009, 10:23:25 AM »

that is very cool info. I had not heard of heating the woodenware first but it would seem to make sense. Even to the point of opening the pores of the wood some. Maybe Mike could chime in to how well his hives are holding up as he is a dipper and where I got the idea from.
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steveb
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2009, 02:50:04 PM »

The Department of Agriculture of New South Wales did an article on their website that backed up the hot dipping method.  I can't remember the actual web address I found it on but I printed it out last year and filed it away somewhere for future reference.  It had temperatures, mixtures etc.  I was also very interested in the fact that if you leave the wood in long enough and hot enough you can kill even spores.  So it would be good for rehabbing some used hives.  They actually applied paint to the hives just after removing them from the hot mixture.  They said if you roll on paint immediately while hot it will stick to the wood also.  I want to do some hive dipping some day when I have time.  I have a hive customer that is a welder who would like to trade me for some custom hives to weld me up a tank.

Boy, I just need more time to try all this stuff.

Steve
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contactme_11
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« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2009, 10:54:50 AM »

This may sound like a dumb question but couldn't you just use half of a steel 55 gallon drum as a dipping pot rather than spending money having one made?
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Doby45
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« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM »

Actually I looked into that.  But the 55gallon drum has a widest width of 22" which would be too small for a standard (10 frame) hive body or super.  I even looked into the 85 gallon drum but they only sold those in one condition around me here in Atlanta and that was NEW and with a price tag of about $185..  With a round container you are also looking at a large quantity of wax/rosin to fill the "rounded" parts of the container.  I assure you I looked into just about everything.  I event wanted to go to an old scrap yard and see if they had tear out sinks and such but no dice.
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contactme_11
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« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2009, 06:00:45 PM »

What about if you cut off the end of a 265 gal oil tank? There's always someone getting rid of those...
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Davo
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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2009, 12:47:31 AM »

Have not tried wax dipping my self but have some second hand supers that were wax dipped and they have been very well preserved by this process. The research paper on wax dipping in the RIDC web site  (rirdc.infoservices.com.au/items/01-051) provides some very good info on wax dipping.

 

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contactme_11
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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2009, 02:54:53 PM »

cool website on dipping woodenware http://www.vcelky.cz/fotobanka-23.htm
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