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Author Topic: 29 other countries must be right, right?  (Read 2600 times)
reinbeau
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« on: May 12, 2009, 08:58:43 PM »

Check this out.  At least some out there are fighting these idiots.  rolleyes
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 09:49:02 PM »

Check this out.  At least some out there are fighting these idiots.  rolleyes


That's why all the stink is being made by the Obama administration about illegal guns being sold to Mexican Drug Cartels.  He claims those guns are coming from Straw Buyers in the USA.  In truth what the Cartels are arming themselves with is the same stuff that the Taliban, Al Quaida, and a host of other warring factions are using...Soviet Block Machine guns, grenades, mines, mortors, etc.  Those types of arms aren't even available here in the USA so this is just a cover story to sell a pig in a poke by Obama.

A few handguns and military collectable guns might find their way into Mexico from the USA as a result of stolen arms by druggies to buy drugs with, but hard military weapons are not coming from the USA and Obama has proven himself a liar.  To subvert the 2nd Amendment is not upholding the laws and Constitution of the USA and is treasonous, liberals might object to my labeling Members of the current adminstration treasonous because the President and members of a democratic party controlled Congress were doing it and Obama can do no wrong.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 09:57:33 PM »

I believe that I read, a couple of weeks ago, that something like in 85% (I think that was the number) of murders in Mexico, the origin of the guns used cannot be determined. With numbers, it's all in how one uses them to achieve the desired result.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 10:41:24 PM »

I believe that I read, a couple of weeks ago, that something like in 85% (I think that was the number) of murders in Mexico, the origin of the guns used cannot be determined. With numbers, it's all in how one uses them to achieve the desired result.

I think about what I read and hear.  When I see pictures of supposed Mexican druggers using Weapons like RPG's that cannot be legally obtained in the USA and available only through international weapons dealers I begin to smell a Skunk in the Henhouse.  Machine guns, Soviet versions of our M-60, mounted on pickups like they are in Iraqi and Afaganistan bolster the smell. 

I will say again Liberals "feel" and conservatives use logic.  You and I can both "feel" bad about the Mexican drug lords getting weapons to kill people with but I'm going to ask why and how, not believe what's in the paper just because it's in the paper.  The why and how is saying those weapons did not come from the USA because of the types of weapons being used.  I saw a report a week or so ago that showed the weapons taken by Mexican Police on a raid against a Drug Stronghold.  There were the machine guns (fully automatic, illegal and unavailable in the US), RPG's, Grenades, and versions of land mines.  Now think about that.
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 12:31:52 AM »

Soviet Block Machine guns, grenades, mines, mortors, etc.  Those types of arms aren't even available here in the USA

Oh yes they are, you just have to know where to look for them.   grin  Maybe not 100% legally available, but available none the less.

Anyhow, there's always been a simple solution for dealing a heavy blow to, and possibly shutting down the drug cartels... decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.  There would also be budget benefits as there would be substancial savings in no more prison terms for users and an entirely new tax base to bring in more revenue, plus it might just decongest the court system a bit.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 12:38:54 AM »

  To subvert the 2nd Amendment is not upholding the laws and Constitution of the USA and is treasonous, liberals might object to my labeling Members of the current adminstration treasonous because the President and members of a democratic party controlled Congress were doing it and Obama can do no wrong.

I have to agree with you. He took the oath to protect and defend and now he wants to subvert what this country is founded upon. That sure rings of treason on my ears. He and anyone that backs him on this play should have done to them what ever it is they do to traitors these days.

Maybe that is why he is doing away with Gitmo  shocked
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 12:41:32 AM »

That sure rings of treason on my ears. He and anyone that backs him on this play should have done to them what ever it is they do to traitors these days.

So you want to reward him?  huh
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 01:01:59 AM »

     Is that what they do
 jaw drop                               jaw drop
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 01:12:02 AM »

     Is that what they do

These days it is.  God knows we don't shoot them, or even give them a good long prison sentance... instead they get book deals and get put on the speaker circuit.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 07:27:09 AM »

I believe that I read, a couple of weeks ago, that something like in 85% (I think that was the number) of murders in Mexico, the origin of the guns used cannot be determined. With numbers, it's all in how one uses them to achieve the desired result.


Actually only 17% of the guns used in crimes in Mexico can be traced to the US, according to this article posted by KathyP a few weeks ago.  a quote from the article below:

Quote
What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.


But I'm sure they won't let the facts get in the way of a good lie to scare Americans who pay no attention to facts  rolleyes
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dragonfly
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 10:03:37 AM »

I think about what I read and hear.  When I see pictures of supposed Mexican druggers using Weapons like RPG's that cannot be legally obtained in the USA and available only through international weapons dealers I begin to smell a Skunk in the Henhouse.  Machine guns, Soviet versions of our M-60, mounted on pickups like they are in Iraqi and Afaganistan bolster the smell. 

I will say again Liberals "feel" and conservatives use logic. 

You will rarely see me say that I "feel" a certain way about anything.Wink
My point was that what we are hearing from the MSM is that 80-something percent of the guns used in Mexican drug wars are coming from the US. That's bunk. They can't even identify the country of origin in 85 or so percent.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 06:10:38 PM »

Who cares where the guns are coming from, what really matters is where the money is coming from.  Cut off the money flow, and you'll cut them off at the knees.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 07:18:26 PM »

Who cares where the guns are coming from, what really matters is where the money is coming from.  Cut off the money flow, and you'll cut them off at the knees.

Our politicians who favor gun control care. They will use whatever means they can to persuade the public that it's for our own good and the good of the world.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 07:58:41 PM »

Who cares where the guns are coming from, what really matters is where the money is coming from.  Cut off the money flow, and you'll cut them off at the knees.

Although correct that is a very simplistic statement.  You are overlooking the fact (common knowledge in the intelligence community) that our own civilian intelligence agency has used drug smuggling into our own country to fund their "Black Ops."  It's like the FBI will ignore murder and other major crimes perpetrated by "informants" in order to build cases on targeted people.  They often flub up as they did with Senator Stevens of Alaska, messed up the investigation so bad the Justice Department had to throw the "conviction" and case out before the appeal was heard.  That was a Politically motivated investigation to get a super majority in the Senate which they now have thanks to the selfserving Senator Specter (aka Senator Spectical).

You can call me a liar or a fabricator if you like because I know you won't find any direct evidence, but in the Military I was in the Intelligence branch and I was a Police Officer after that.  I know that information from 1st hand observation but I can't prove it.

The reason the CIA took out Noriega was that he wanted too much of a cut and was trying to take over the entire drug operation that the CIA was using.  Their problem was that while they concentrated on Noriega the Columbia Drug Cartels got the upper hand and took over direct control of the "business."   So the CIA changed it's drug smuggling routes from using Panama, Graneda, and other Caribbean Countries and started using Mexico and Puebla Cities.  Now the Mexican Drug Cartels are trying to take over just like in Columbia, there are ties between them.

You want to get an earful, ask a Vietnam vet about the CIA and it's air fleet called Air America.  I was actually riding in a DC4 "passenger" plane that dropped bombs over North Vietnam on a flight from Formosa to Saigon.  Only US Government "civilians" and US Military personel were about the aircraft.
Again I can't prove but I was there.  The CIA was actually transporting munitions into Loas and Cambodia disguised as medical supplies.  Unfortunately they had one of the trucks go off the road and into a Calong (canal) in Ramasan, Thailand while I was the MP Provost Sargent there, so I know that one 1st hand too, but again I can't prove it.
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woodchopper
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 01:56:49 PM »

  To subvert the 2nd Amendment is not upholding the laws and Constitution of the USA and is treasonous, liberals might object to my labeling Members of the current adminstration treasonous because the President and members of a democratic party controlled Congress were doing it and Obama can do no wrong.

I have to agree with you. He took the oath to protect and defend and now he wants to subvert what this country is founded upon. That sure rings of treason on my ears. He and anyone that backs him on this play should have done to them what ever it is they do to traitors these days.
+1000
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2009, 02:34:53 PM »

Who cares where the guns are coming from, what really matters is where the money is coming from.  Cut off the money flow, and you'll cut them off at the knees.

Our politicians who favor gun control care. They will use whatever means they can to persuade the public that it's for our own good and the good of the world.

But by focusing only on that, you're giving those politicians ammunition in their fight to take our guns.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2009, 02:35:49 PM »

Who cares where the guns are coming from, what really matters is where the money is coming from.  Cut off the money flow, and you'll cut them off at the knees.

Although correct that is a very simplistic statement.  You are overlooking the fact (common knowledge in the intelligence community) that our own civilian intelligence agency has used drug smuggling into our own country to fund their "Black Ops."  It's like the FBI will ignore murder and other major crimes perpetrated by "informants" in order to build cases on targeted people.  They often flub up as they did with Senator Stevens of Alaska, messed up the investigation so bad the Justice Department had to throw the "conviction" and case out before the appeal was heard.  That was a Politically motivated investigation to get a super majority in the Senate which they now have thanks to the selfserving Senator Specter (aka Senator Spectical).

You can call me a liar or a fabricator if you like because I know you won't find any direct evidence, but in the Military I was in the Intelligence branch and I was a Police Officer after that.  I know that information from 1st hand observation but I can't prove it.

The reason the CIA took out Noriega was that he wanted too much of a cut and was trying to take over the entire drug operation that the CIA was using.  Their problem was that while they concentrated on Noriega the Columbia Drug Cartels got the upper hand and took over direct control of the "business."   So the CIA changed it's drug smuggling routes from using Panama, Graneda, and other Caribbean Countries and started using Mexico and Puebla Cities.  Now the Mexican Drug Cartels are trying to take over just like in Columbia, there are ties between them.

You want to get an earful, ask a Vietnam vet about the CIA and it's air fleet called Air America.  I was actually riding in a DC4 "passenger" plane that dropped bombs over North Vietnam on a flight from Formosa to Saigon.  Only US Government "civilians" and US Military personel were about the aircraft.
Again I can't prove but I was there.  The CIA was actually transporting munitions into Loas and Cambodia disguised as medical supplies.  Unfortunately they had one of the trucks go off the road and into a Calong (canal) in Ramasan, Thailand while I was the MP Provost Sargent there, so I know that one 1st hand too, but again I can't prove it.

and I'm sure the CIA can find other ways to fund their operations.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2009, 02:51:00 PM »


But by focusing only on that, you're giving those politicians ammunition in their fight to take our guns.

They aren't getting any ammunition from me. They are getting it from lies they are listening to.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2009, 03:29:20 PM »


But by focusing only on that, you're giving those politicians ammunition in their fight to take our guns.

They aren't getting any ammunition from me. They are getting it from lies they are listening to.

Your focus on this issue while ignoring all the better solutions is their ammunition. 
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dragonfly
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2009, 10:30:54 PM »


Your focus on this issue while ignoring all the better solutions is their ammunition. 

Who is focusing on this issue? Does the discussion of one issue exclude one's ability to focus on others?
Better solutions to what?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2009, 11:58:41 PM »


Your focus on this issue while ignoring all the better solutions is their ammunition. 

Who is focusing on this issue? Does the discussion of one issue exclude one's ability to focus on others?
Better solutions to what?

We are debating one issue here so pardon me if I focus on it while we do so.  As soon as I finish this little note I'll click to a new page and focus on that when I answer it. 

Also, Attention all Liberals or Indifferent people, There Is No Better Solution To The Second Amendment.
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 01:52:34 AM »

Better solutions to what?

Better solutions to stopping the flow of guns to mexican crime syndicates. 

One solution would be to outlaw guns in USA... take yours and everyone else's away, that way there won't be any guns here for them to buy... that's the solution we're debating, and if we focus on it as the only solution to the problem, it won't matter how much we disagree with it, it will happen.  They'll say that with more than 7,000 deaths so far from the cartel violence we can't afford not to, reguardless of the constitution.  They can shove it down our throats as long as that is widely regarded as the only solution.

You had better wake up before you find you've got no rights left.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2009, 07:19:33 AM »

Did you even follow the information in this thread?  There is no vast flow of illegal weapons to Mexico.  The vast majority of them are coming from other countries.  It's a fact.  But as usual you don't let the facts cloud your 'vision' - and also don't let the fact that this thread is about gun control in the United States and not the flow of illegal weapons to Mexico run you off your already wrong track - I started the thread.
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2009, 08:41:42 AM »

The best way to stop the flow would probably to stop the LEGAL sales of firearms to the Mexican ARMY.  So when the mexican soldiers defect they don't add more firearms to the criminal element in mexico.
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2009, 12:12:38 PM »

Did you even follow the information in this thread?  There is no vast flow of illegal weapons to Mexico.  The vast majority of them are coming from other countries.  It's a fact.  But as usual you don't let the facts cloud your 'vision' - and also don't let the fact that this thread is about gun control in the United States and not the flow of illegal weapons to Mexico run you off your already wrong track - I started the thread.

OH DEAR!  shocked

I thought it was about the President undermining the constitution. My bad  grin
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2009, 01:14:50 PM »

Did you even follow the information in this thread?  There is no vast flow of illegal weapons to Mexico.  The vast majority of them are coming from other countries.  It's a fact.  But as usual you don't let the facts cloud your 'vision' - and also don't let the fact that this thread is about gun control in the United States and not the flow of illegal weapons to Mexico run you off your already wrong track - I started the thread.

In politics, facts don't matter much.  Public perception is 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the game.  No matter how many other countries they are getting their guns from, no matter what percentage, if even one gun came from the US, and our politicians can focus our attention on that, you will lose your guns, and yet another right.
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