Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
August 20, 2014, 09:40:56 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Overwintering on honey reserves.  (Read 4352 times)
D.Tregarth
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5

Location: Sarthe (72), France


« on: May 12, 2009, 03:55:27 AM »

Hello everybody, my first time on the forum, so be gentle!

I've just started beekeeping and I would like very much to keep things as natural as feasibly possible.

Which is really hard to do when every apiculture I speak to really wants to help me get started, but think i am commiting beekeeping suicide by not having foundation, or not using chemicals or feeding syrup etc etc. Infact no-one here believes such methods exist.

I am planning on maintaining all my supers with the foundationless system, while the brood chamber is; for the moment, with foundation.

For me beekeeping is more about the bees than the honey (I dont eat much honey (as yet) and have no ambitions on selling any. I just find asocial species fascinating.

Therefore I am quite happy to leave uncapped honey for the bees to overwinter on. But I am unsure as to how much I should leave. (I appreciate that this surely depends upon numerous factors such as health of the hive, aspect of the hive and winter temperatures. But some vaguely rough idea would send me in the right direction.

If its worthy of note I have dadant hives 43 x 50 cm. Deep broad chambers and shallow supers.

Thanks in advance, and I am looking forward to learning much on this forum.

Dave
Logged
Jim 134
Super Bee
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 2222


Location: Hinsdale, New Hampshire 03451 USA


WWW
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 04:48:49 AM »

Hello everybody, my first time on the forum, so be gentle!

I've just started beekeeping and I would like very much to keep things as natural as feasibly possible.

Which is really hard to do when every apiculture I speak to really wants to help me get started, but think i am commiting beekeeping suicide by not having foundation, or not using chemicals or feeding syrup etc etc. Infact no-one here believes such methods exist.

I am planning on maintaining all my supers with the foundationless system, while the brood chamber is; for the moment, with foundation.

For me beekeeping is more about the bees than the honey (I dont eat much honey (as yet) and have no ambitions on selling any. I just find asocial species fascinating.

Therefore I am quite happy to leave uncapped honey for the bees to overwinter on. But I am unsure as to how much I should leave. (I appreciate that this surely depends upon numerous factors such as health of the hive, aspect of the hive and winter temperatures. But some vaguely rough idea would send me in the right direction.

If its worthy of note I have dadant hives 43 x 50 cm. Deep broad chambers and shallow supers.

Thanks in advance, and I am looking forward to learning much on this forum.

Dave


 Dave.........

       

         Give a location in your profile at well help a lot are you in the USA ??
     

         BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 04:58:52 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
D.Tregarth
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5

Location: Sarthe (72), France


« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 06:34:24 AM »

Ahh yes.... Sorry about that. I'm in the north of france. We have cold winters, but nothing crazy. A week of snow is reasonably exceptionel.

Hope that helps. cheesy
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6402


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 07:33:47 AM »

Have you considered the Warré Hive.   Sounds like it would fit you better.

http://www.apiculture-warre.fr/
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


D.Tregarth
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5

Location: Sarthe (72), France


« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 07:50:16 AM »

I had indeed considered a Warré hive,  and I probably will still make one to add to the others I have already (I'll also probably end up with topbar hives too). However I really like being able to manipulate the frames and see whats going on. And is hence why I began with Dadants.
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6402


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 08:16:53 AM »

Oh, OK.   Bitten by the word "natural" again.   Everybody has their own definition and draws their own lines.  Many would consider removable frames and manipulations as not natural.

As far as your initial question,  you will need to check with some local beekeepers to see how much stores are required in your climate.   I know I like to have a complete full deep as a minimum in my location.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


D.Tregarth
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5

Location: Sarthe (72), France


« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 08:35:49 AM »

Am I mistaken in thinking I said? ....

> "as natural as feasibly possible"


However, if no beekeepers (at least no-one i've got in touch with as yet) utilise only uncapped honey as winter reserves (as they suppliment (i assume heavily) with syrup) surely regardless as to what they reserve, with regards to my question; I won't be any the wiser.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13622


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 07:39:00 PM »

In my climate, which is pretty cold, a typical Italian hive with a large cluster needs to weigh 100 to 150 pounds to get through the winter.  That is probably 75 to 100 pounds of honey.  Perhaps a better formula is that you need about a full capped frame of honey for every frame covered in bees when they are clustered, in addition to whatever the cluster is covering.

Further south where it is warmer it takes considerably less honey for the winter.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6402


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 09:24:35 PM »

Am I mistaken in thinking I said? ....

> "as natural as feasibly possible"

That is exactly what you said and that is why I mentioned Warre hives as they are more natural because of no movable frames and minimal manipulation, compared to a Dadant, and are surely feasible.


Quote
However, if no beekeepers (at least no-one i've got in touch with as yet) utilise only uncapped honey as winter reserves (as they suppliment (i assume heavily) with syrup) surely regardless as to what they reserve, with regards to my question; I won't be any the wiser.

Not quite sure your point here.   Regardless of how or what your local beekeepers feed,  you will get a better idea from them of what your climate requires to winter bees than from others half way across the globe.    If they feed 100lbs of syrup, then 100lbs of capped honey would be a good starting point
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 09:49:27 PM »

Finsky (a old member who lives in Finland) always said honey is more valuable that syrup, he said take the honey and feed them syrup for winter. sorry cant help on how much they will need but thought I would pass that line on to you..
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
D.Tregarth
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5

Location: Sarthe (72), France


« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 02:54:24 AM »

Ahh I see, so there is a conserversion from syrup to capped honey. Excellent.

And Im sure I will end up with Warré hives, and an observation hive, and more... I can see how beekeeping could become slightly addictive.

Thanks alot chaps,

Dave.
Logged
Bee Happy
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1656


Location: Between Panama city, Florida and Dothan Al.

that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 01:41:42 PM »

best of luck with them, many of the members here are long-time beekeeping veterans in both conventional and 'natural'/organic methods and at the risk of fawning I have to say I respect their experience and I do 'listen' when they have something to say.
I've got mostly langstroth  - all langstroth - hives with a topbar already built to house a swarm or two should I have the luck.

edit: I had intended to leave them lots of their own honey to winter on - though I'm in Florida - we have bouts of freezing (20F for a few nights) cold, where I am but it only snows about every 20-25 years.
Logged

be happy and make others happy.
1reb
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1698

Location: Warren,Arkansas


« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 10:15:34 PM »

welcome aboard D.Tregarth
Logged
lakeman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 242

Location: Abbeville, South Carolina


« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 08:34:26 AM »

Oh, OK.   Bitten by the word "natural" again.   Everybody has their own definition and draws their own lines.  Many would consider removable frames and manipulations as not natural.

As far as your initial question,  you will need to check with some local beekeepers to see how much stores are required in your climate.   I know I like to have a complete full deep as a minimum in my location.

Hey Robo, you say a ccomplete full deep, is that with you feeding, or not? I took his topic heading, >Re: Overwintering on honey reserves< to mean, he was not going to feed, but overwinter naturally.
Logged

I am my own biggest critic!
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6402


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2009, 08:39:31 AM »

Hey Robo, you say a ccomplete full deep, is that with you feeding, or not? I took his topic heading, >Re: Overwintering on honey reserves< to mean, he was not going to feed, but overwinter naturally.

Not sure I understand your question.  A full deep, with or without feeding.  If you don't need to feed then don't.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


lakeman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 242

Location: Abbeville, South Carolina


« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2009, 08:53:26 AM »

Hey Robo, you say a ccomplete full deep, is that with you feeding, or not? I took his topic heading, >Re: Overwintering on honey reserves< to mean, he was not going to feed, but overwinter naturally.

Not sure I understand your question.  a full deep, with or without feeding.  If you don't need to feed then don't.


Your answer to him as to what you left to feed overwinter, was a full deep. I wondered if you fed syrup in adition to that, or if that was sufficient?
Logged

I am my own biggest critic!
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6402


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2009, 09:40:00 AM »

A full deep is what I consider minimum in my area and you still need to keep an eye on it depending on the weather.  I don't feed syrup as it adds to much moisture to the hive.  If I have to feed, it is candy.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


bee-nuts
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1101


Location: Northwest Wisconsin


WWW
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 03:40:58 AM »

ROBO

Sorry for butting in on someone else's thread but I am curious.   Where do the bees get the moisture needed to break down the candy if they have no honey left?  Or is it they don't need moisture to do it?  They must need water as well as the solid sugar candy, right.

Thanks

bee-nuts
Logged

The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

Thomas Jefferson
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6402


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 10:46:36 AM »

bees give off a tremendous amount of moisture when they consume honey, that is why a lot of folks resort to putting an upper vent into the hive so condensation does not become a problem.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Paraplegic Racehorse
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 146

Location: Richland, Benton County, Washington State

Kilted beekeepers unite!


WWW
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2009, 02:57:52 PM »

If its worthy of note I have dadant hives 43 x 50 cm. Deep broad chambers and shallow supers.

My part of Alaska has a full nine month dearth (absolutely zero forage). I winter my Langstroth hives with brood boxes + two fully capped boxes of Dadant half-depth (which we in US call "Mediums"; nearly 60kg total honey). My Warres winter on brood box + two fully capped boxes (nearly 40kg total honey).

The more I read on French forums and beekeeping books, the recommended amount of honey/syrup for wintering, there, is 18kg (Warre), 20kg (Voirnot or Layens), and 25kg (Dadant or Langstroth). If you are in 12-frame Dadants, you might add one or two kilos to that weight estimate. It is better to have too much than not enough. Capped or uncapped makes little difference.

I can find no references for pollen stores for overwintering in FR, but I can in UK, US, DE, RU, and other areas. It appears you should be aiming for about 1kg pollen stores, if you are able to manipulate it. The most common way to be sure they have enough pollen is to simply add protein patties either in autumn after freeze, or in late winter/early spring before thaw.
Logged

I'm Paraplegic Racehorse.
Member in good standing: International Discordance of Kilted Apiarists, Local #994

The World Beehive Project - I endeavor to build at least one of every beehive in common use today and document the entire process.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.379 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page August 15, 2014, 01:54:22 AM
anything