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Author Topic: SHB eggs  (Read 3564 times)
jclark96
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« on: May 11, 2009, 09:37:14 PM »

  Oh no, I found one SHB in my new hive on Friday. I was about to close up when my six year old, Sadie, spotted it.
  So, I checked back today and found four. I squashed one, evicted two and one excaped. Couldn't find the two I evicted in the leaves, or they would have been squashed as well. The bees were chasing the SHBs and pinning them into a corner, so that is a plus.
  My next step is to put a trap that I made today into the hive. But if I could remove any eggs or larvae that would help as well. It is a new hive, so I didn't see any SHB larvae.
  What do SHB eggs look like? Can they be removed?
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SlickMick
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2009, 10:48:38 PM »

Unfortunately my aging eyes no longer allow me to see things like the SHB eggs although I believe they are about 1mm plus long. I also believe that the bees will evict them from comb but that is hearsay. Perhaps someone can confirm that.

In my view I think there are some things you need to do before you start to worry too much. In a strong hive the bees will manage the SHB pretty well but I do think they need support. An effective trap is important and weekly/fortnightly inspections of the trap is necessary to know how the hive is dealing with the beetle.

Other important things are to ensure that the colony covers the frames you put in the hive. Empty frames or comb present many hiding places for the beetle giving them time to lay. Covered comb means that there is nowhere for the beetle to hide and it has to try to escape the bees continually. I am moving to foundationless so that the bees build the comb they need rather than have a super full of comb that they are unable to look after.

Whilst the SBB may be excellent in helping with Varroa and ventillation in my absence of experience with the SBB I can't help but think that they offer additional access to the SHB that the hive can't monitor. Again others with experience with the SBB and SHB may be able to shed some more light on the issue.

Whilst the larva is a devestating part of the problem it comes only after the SHB has laid. If you can manage the adult part of the cycle and prevent the beetle from egg laying then the larval part should not be such a problem unless the laying gets out of control and then you have a real problem.

Hope this helps

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 09:37:19 PM »

  Oh no, I found one SHB in my new hive on Friday. I was about to close up when my six year old, Sadie, spotted it.
  So, I checked back today and found four. I squashed one, evicted two and one excaped. Couldn't find the two I evicted in the leaves, or they would have been squashed as well. The bees were chasing the SHBs and pinning them into a corner, so that is a plus.
  My next step is to put a trap that I made today into the hive. But if I could remove any eggs or larvae that would help as well. It is a new hive, so I didn't see any SHB larvae.
  What do SHB eggs look like? Can they be removed?

ask Dallas what he does, he deal with them in Florida all year long
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 06:24:13 PM »

 I also am curious to see what Dallas says. Most commercials down here leave in April and the ones I've asked say they aren't a problem because they move their hives often.
 I just read an article about leaving the propolis in the boxes and any square corners that it dosen't interfere. To that I would add grooves in the frames and anywhere else. Gets rid of the escape corners and egg laying spots that the bees can't reach. Makes sense.
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 08:36:56 PM »

I think they lay - a bunch- of eggs. where you'll have several larvae developing in a single bee cell.
check this page (I looked it up to verify...)
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/117372/small-hive-beetle.pdf
lots of pictures.
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dhood
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 10:20:50 PM »

  But if I could remove any eggs or larvae that would help as well. It is a new hive, so I didn't see any SHB larvae.
  What do SHB eggs look like? Can they be removed?

 When your in the hive inspecting, the bees give off alarm pheromone which attracts the beetles. Taking the time of searching each cell for shb eggs would disrupt the hive and only make matters worse. This time of the year I wouldn't worry too much about them, although keep an eye on them. Direct sunlight seems to discourage large numbers of beetles, so that may be an option. Probally the most important is not to leave too much space in the hive. Now that you have seen them, they will always be around. lol  You will learn in time how to know if your hive is strong enough to deal with them. They will get worse in the late summer/ fall.
Hope all goes well, Daniel
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sc-bee
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 11:12:46 PM »

>This time of the year I wouldn't worry too much about them, although keep an eye on them.

Already lost a Nuc to them but it was a weak one I was using as an observation hive.

Did a cut out last Wed. Loads of bees--- did the first entry yesterday --- bottom board teeming with SHB larvae (No SHB larvae seen during cut out).
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dhood
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 11:33:08 PM »

Both of those situations are very different than a new package installation. Although you didn't see larva when you did the cutout, the comb could have been full of eggs, then after the stress added to the colony from the cutout, the larva where given an opertunity to hatch and thrive. I have had the very same thing happen.
Just trying to explain how a few hive beetles are not a problem in a new hive.
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SlickMick
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 04:37:35 AM »

>This time of the year I wouldn't worry too much about them, although keep an eye on them.

Already lost a Nuc to them but it was a weak one I was using as an observation hive.

Did a cut out last Wed. Loads of bees--- did the first entry yesterday --- bottom board teeming with SHB larvae (No SHB larvae seen during cut out).

That cut out is probably in a heap of trouble. You need to get rid of the larva asap or you will loose any brood and honey that is in the hive. Also you may find the colony will abscond. You have undoubtedly had a lot of eggs in the comb and it has all hatched.

I would lift the brood box off the bottom board and hose all the larva on the bottom board into a bucket of water in which you have put some detergent.. to prevent the larva from being able to take a bubble of air with them to the bottom of the bucket.

Then I would get all the comb with honey in it and hose out the larva and any destroyed honey. You may want to cut out the comb that has nothing in it and then freeze it for 24 hours or just freeze it intact.

I would check the brood nest to make sure that there is no larva there but you may find the nest to be in a mess and you may have to freeze the comb and replace it frames from another hive/s.

I really hope that you are able to save your colony

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
sc-bee
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 01:35:56 PM »

>Both of those situations are very different than a new package installation.

I didn't see the mention of a new package just new hive ---- I don't know haw established the hive is. Maybe I missed it.

>Although you didn't see larva when you did the cutout, the comb could have been full of eggs, then after the stress added to the colony from the cutout,

Agreed

>I would lift the brood box off the bottom board and hose all the larva on the bottom board into a bucket of water in which you have put some detergent.. to prevent the larva from being able to take a bubble of air with them to the bottom of the bucket.


Thanks for the info Mick ---I'll try that. I have tried freezing etc. in past.

>Just trying to explain how a few hive beetles are not a problem in a new hive.

I agree with you --- I'm just trying to explain how they can get away from you in a hurry.



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SlickMick
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 06:06:48 PM »

Good luck with things. Hope you save the hive.

Keep in touch and let us know how things go

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
mgmoore7
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 06:28:38 PM »

I am in FL as well.  I think Dallas just ordered a bunch of AJ Beetler eaters to try. 

I have some AJ Beetle eaters too but have not tried them yet.  I need to put them on this weekend.

I am going to be building a bottom board prototype in the next few weeks that will have a oil tray under the screened bottom board.  I am finding beetles frequently on the slide out sticky board but they just get back into the hive.

You really have to watch out for these boogers.  They will ruin a hive if you are not on top of them. 

Check this like for more good info and some trap options:
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,21943.msg168527/topicseen.html#new
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jclark96
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 09:24:12 PM »

Thanks for the info, after doing some more research it wasn't SHB eggs that I saw. The SHBs were there but were adults. I have built a few traps, to install tomarrow. Will keep you updated.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 10:11:41 PM »



The little tiny white mass.
The SHB eggs are wedged in any tiny crack that they can.  You'll never see them.
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jclark96
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 08:18:01 AM »

Thanks for the photo. That isn't what I saw. How about SBB and Honey Supers?

Seems like the SBB would let out their scent more? Can adult SHB get through the screen?

George Imerie suggest stacking up to five supers on at once? With SHB wouldn't that allow alot of unpatrolled space?
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 01:30:21 PM »

the small hive beetle will invade supers and do some serious damage.  If you see frames that have SHB and Wax Moth larve, those frames will have honey or pollen.  I just went through all my supers and has some wax moth and SHB.  Only the locations/frames that had pollen were invaded.    The pollen attracks them and if the frames are dark they will surely get wax moth.  I cut out any pollen.  I am spraying mine with Xentari Bt for wax moth and if the frame has been sprayed, the wax moth don't survive long it appears but they still do some damage.  The other thing you can do it freeze the frames to kill larve of either. 
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jclark96
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2009, 05:09:46 PM »

Friday I installed two traps, a sandwich box trap between SBB & Rack, and a CD case trap on the inner cover.

Today about 20 adult SHB in the Sandwich box--- 5/32 holes drilled around the edges, large juice lid hot glued to the center, apple cider vinager and banana peel in the lid, mineral oil around that.

1 adult SHB in the CD case, but it was the sticky stuff from a glue trap. So it was just running around in there having fun. I will modify it to work like the other one.

The other thing I noticed was perforated brood. Does that mean the the SHB is laying eggs and the bees are cleaning the contaminated cells? There were underdeveloped Bee pupae in the feeder?
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Bee Happy
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that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2009, 06:47:43 PM »

Friday I installed two traps, a sandwich box trap between SBB & Rack, and a CD case trap on the inner cover.

Today about 20 adult SHB in the Sandwich box--- 5/32 holes drilled around the edges, large juice lid hot glued to the center, apple cider vinager and banana peel in the lid, mineral oil around that.


can you point out some directions for making one? - like a 'set of plans'?
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SlickMick
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2009, 07:52:56 PM »

Hi Bee Happy, I have some pics of making the bottom board oil traps that I made to go in my hives. http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20615.0.html. They work pretty well but dont get all the shb. Another trap on the top of the frames might help or one like the sandwich box trap may also be the go if you are using the sbb.

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
jclark96
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 08:18:27 AM »

Do a yahoo/google search for Sonney Mel SHB trap, not my original idea.

I started with a "Wonder Bread" plastic sandwich box, drew a line around the lid to the box. Then I drilled alot of 5/32 holes around the box, just below the line.

Next find the largest plastic bottle lid you can. Hot glue the lid in the middle of the bottom of the box. You end up with a bowl inside a bowl.

When you get to your hive, fill the juice lid with banana peels and apple cider vineger. Fill the rest of the box with mineral/vegetable oil.

The idea is the shb are attracted to the apple cider vinegar/banana peel, at the same time being chased by the bees. To get to the vinegar they crawl through the holes, but the bees can't. Once through the holes they fall into the oil and drowned.

The down side for me is to check them I have to move the hive off of the bottom board. Mine is between the bottom board and the slatted rack. If you put them on top, you would need some kind of spacer.
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jclark96
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2009, 07:01:38 AM »

I had my hive inspected yesterday, the bees are now covering 9 1/2 out of 11 frames, and we only found 2 beetles. So, I think that the premise of a strong hive is correct. My traps haven't really caught many more beetles either, so I think they have started defending themselves better.
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SlickMick
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2009, 07:17:20 AM »

Glad to hear it

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
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