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Author Topic: Can I shoot his cows?  (Read 4713 times)
Keith13
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« on: May 11, 2009, 01:17:41 PM »

Ok here is the situation. I have a neighbor a few lots over from me that keep cows. My property used to have cows on it that my cousin kept. This year we removed the cows from my property. Over the last few months I have noticed cow manure and other signs of grazing on my property. I asked my cousin if somehow they were his cows and he pointed me to my neighbor. Well I walked through the woods to go talk to the guy and as I’m walking up to his fence I notice the lack of barbwire it has holes all in his fence that the cows come and go through. I spoke with him about this and he told me it would cost him too much to fix the whole fence, and there wasn’t a lot he could do about it. He told me to go ahead and keep my fence that my cousins used to keep up in good order and that would take care of the cows coming into my fields. I want to cut holes in my fence so I don’t have to cross a fence every time I want to go into my woods (that would still be grazed by his cows) So I guess my question is can I shoot his cows when they are on my property?  Seems to me fixing his fence would cost him a lot less than replacing his cows.
Anybody knows the law on this.

Keith
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2009, 01:28:37 PM »

I take it you live out in the country?
You have told the guy about his cows trespassing on your property so next call the county sheriff and ask him if you can shoot the cow and have it for dinner. Of course the sheriff is invited over for BBQ  grin
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Keith13
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2009, 01:36:24 PM »

Jerry I live in the city but the property is in the country. One of the biggest problems I run into is the locals like to stick together. In other words when I spoke with the sheriff he told me there is no way his cows would come on to my property. He must have purty smart cows.
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2009, 01:41:58 PM »

Jerry I live in the city but the property is in the country. One of the biggest problems I run into is the locals like to stick together. In other words when I spoke with the sheriff he told me there is no way his cows would come on to my property. He must have purty smart cows.
 rolleyes
Keith

Well there ya go,   when there is a dead cow in your field, there is no way it can be his. evil
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 02:09:52 PM »

Gee. That is a tough one. Since you are the outsider I suggest you find out exactly what legal grounds you have.

There was a bit of a question on this old travel trailer I just got. It had been sitting on this persons property before they bought the property. and they had now owned the property for several years. But the Sheriff... a friend of the property owner.... said just because it is on their land does not necessarily give them the right to dispose of it as they wish. They needed to locate the owners of the trailer or turn it over to the local law after which they could claim it in thirty days and blah blah blah....   Luckily the owner's widow lived next door.  
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 02:13:40 PM »

I have a grinder and a meat saw.  Anyone else have a freezer to fill? evil
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009, 03:20:42 PM »

I don't know about where you are, but here neighbors tend to share the cost of fixing/replacing a boundary fence.  I think the law reads if livestock is kept on both sides though.  You might consider putting a gate where you want to go through to your woods, and if the neighbors cows get out...through an open gate....well he might consider fixing the fence.  Just my humble opinion.

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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2009, 03:33:01 PM »

The answer is so simple. Take more of your fence down, especially along the road. Let his cows wander up and down the road. If no road, than just let them wander wherever. Also tell you neighbor he will be getting a bill for any garden, fruit, or other crop they happen to eat.
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Keith13
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2009, 03:42:03 PM »

The answer is so simple. Take more of your fence down, especially along the road. Let his cows wander up and down the road. If no road, than just let them wander wherever. Also tell you neighbor he will be getting a bill for any garden, fruit, or other crop they happen to eat.

That is my biggest concern when I start planting food plots the cows will mow em down. Being he can't fix a fence I doubt I will get a check out of him.

There is a road near by and I was going to cut both sides om my fences allowing cows access to the road, but my concern there is what if some poor soul at night is driving and kills himself by hitting one of these cows? Yes the owner gets sued but to me that might not be the best answer I think I would rather shoot them evil. I also thought of poison but to me I think that might open me up to liability somehow.

Keith
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2009, 04:25:48 PM »

shooting them will create a neighbor who also hates you (I promise you he'll whine to someone that it was unnecessary for you to do that)- you may eventually wind up having to shoot him (My neighbor next door shot a threatening dog on his property - the dogs owner was an irrational freak about it. if it weren't for the sheriff's officers eventually doing their job and ultimately taking the guy away my neighbor probably would have had to shoot him.) I think some of the others are on a better point - nobody says you have to maintain your fences on your own property to keep his cattle in.
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2009, 06:34:50 PM »

Some of the replies sounds like tell tells of city people moving to the country. I have been on both sides of this issue. Here in Florida you are both equally responsible for the boundary line fence. I had a neighbor that refused to help fix the fence (in my mind it was so he could graze my land without having to pay for it because his grass was all gone). After numerous tries to get him to come get his cows out of my field I finally rounded up his cows, loaded them onto the trailer and took them to the livestock market. I sold them under his name and took out my expenses which ended up being about 75% of what they brought at the market. Long story short he started taking a lot better care of the fence. You can charge him for damages done to your property as well. Small claims court is the way to go for that.  Try to get him to help with a boundry fence and maybe you could use some of the old fence you want to take down to build the new boundry line. I Think it is best to try to be a good neighbor but sometimes others do not reciprocate. Taking the fence down knowing that his cows could get onto the road is a bad idea. If someone gets in a wreck with the cow it could turn out badly.  Good luck on this.
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2009, 06:53:39 PM »

I don't know about where you guys are, but here cow fencing belongs to the property owner.  There isn't anything such as a boundary fence unless your talking the old rock walls that separated fields which adjacent property owners usually have to come to an agreement on, but those were never meant to contain livestock.  They are his cows and he is responsible to control them.  For example if they got out and wandered into the road and some car ran into one his farm/homeowners insurance(if he has it) would have to pay to repair any damage and if someone died he could even be charged with manslaughter via negligence.  Barbed wire is pretty cheap compared to that I would think.  I wouldn't advise shooting his livestock.  Creates very bad feelings with the neighbors, especially if you're an outsider.  There are usually legal issues with shooting an animal belonging to someone else unless you are in danger from it or animals you own are.  I suppose you could wait until some of them were on your property and then call the sheriff.  If they tell you to call you neighbor remind them that they told you they couldn't be his.  grin
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2009, 07:02:24 PM »

pdmattox

You just admitted to cattle rustling
Selling stolen goods
Forgery
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2009, 07:22:45 PM »

Jerry it was all done legal,on the up and up and was worked out with the auction barn who also knew this guy. He never complained and was happy to pick up his check. Problem solved for me. Good try though Jerry.
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2009, 07:31:25 PM »

     



                                             
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2009, 09:59:01 AM »

pdmattox

You just admitted to cattle rustling
Selling stolen goods
Forgery

Isn't possession 9/10th of the law?  My land, my trees, my cows?

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Rick
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2009, 10:05:59 AM »

Keith you must check the laws for your area.  In La. you all live under Napoleonic law so I do believe you have every right to shoot them, but before you do check the law.  Then call me up I like a good BBQ evil
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2009, 11:27:24 AM »

a lot of Texas is still under open range laws. a part of that means...

    
Quote
       The Texas Supreme Court is very clear on this subject. In their 1999 decision on Gibbs v. Jackson, the Court ruled that a livestock owner has no duty to fence his livestock unless such a duty is created by statute.

     In their opinion the Court stated, "With its policy-making authority, the Legislature has considered fence and livestock restraint laws for virtually every type of roadway over which it has jurisdiction.

     "It is noteworthy that the Legislature has specifically excluded farm-to-market roads from such regulation. We think it unwise in this instance for the Court to erect barriers that the Legislature has declined to impose."

     The Court also deferred to the right of the citizens within a county to adopt local stock laws.

     "Those citizens, who know far more about their roads and livestock than do we, apparently have deemed it unnecessary to adopt such a law for the road [in question]. We decline in this instance to impose upon them a duty which they have declined to self-impose."

     So, a livestock owner might be liable for damages only if the accident occurred on a U.S. or Texas state highway or on a road covered by a local stock election law.

Quote
"In an open-range jurisdiction, farmers and other landowners must exclude (fence out) the livestock. Cattlemen face no liability if their cattle are not properly excluded."
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« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2009, 12:13:29 PM »

How about sowing your field and woods with jimson?  rolleyes  Its a great honey plant, right??? evil

I agree, don't let the cows on the road.  You may be 1000's of miles away but my mom will find a way to run into them.  She's already hit a few deer and a horse rolleyes .
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Rick
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2009, 12:35:22 PM »

Have you ever watched "Survivorman"?  He outlines a couple of neat little tricks that could be employed here... like a snare that would at the very least hold the cows in place until animal control or the sheriff could come and remove them, another is his fish trap... and I like this one best for your situation... put a post on each side of each of the holes in his fence, then put sharpened sticks on those poles with the sharp end facing the center of your property in kind of a V shape.  The cows will walk through to your property, but will not go back, so in about a week, you can rent a big tractor trailer and haul them all off to the auction... just remember to do something nice with some of the money and buy him a few hundred feet of barbed wire.  Buy a nice new truck with the rest.   evil

Or you could maybe file a lawsuit against him for the grazing value of your property multiplied out over the past few years, with interest and punitive damages for not paying you up front, then offer to settle the suit with him for the price of fixing the fence plus your filing fees.
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2009, 01:00:36 PM »

You're neighbor says repair the fence would cost too much.

You say you cut your fence for easy access to the woods without climbing over fence.
So why did you cut your fence when a gate makes much more sense?

I think there are issues with both you and your neighbor in this matter.
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2009, 01:28:58 PM »

I have done a little more looking around and Louisiana does have open range areas. Meaning...of you live in one of those areas then it is up to you to put up the fence to keep the cows out.
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2009, 01:55:01 PM »

Keith, here's a real life story for you, straight from the horse's mouth. The guy we used to lease land from in Hazelhurst, Mississippi, used to plant the most beautiful green fields you'd ever seen.

Years ago, a guy down the street's cows got out, all 13 of them and wound up on our guy's land on one of his large green fields.

He corralled the cows into a fenced in area. Later that evening the guy who owned the cows knocked on his door to get his cows.

Our guy told him sure, you can have them. That will be $39.00, $3.00 a head for grazing my green fields, a pretty good deal if you ask me.

The guy paid up and his cow's never got loose again.

Keith, don't even think about shooting another person's animals, you will get into a ton of trouble.

I say corral them like our guy did and charge him a fee to get 'em back.


...JP

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Keith13
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 02:27:29 PM »

You're neighbor says repair the fence would cost too much.

You say you cut your fence for easy access to the woods without climbing over fence.
So why did you cut your fence when a gate makes much more sense?

I think there are issues with both you and your neighbor in this matter.

I guess I should have been a little clearer. I have two fences. One surrounds my fields that is the one I want to cut. On the other side of that fence is another 300 meters of forest, which then is the property line. Then another property owner has a long narrow piece all wooded (maybe 50 feet wide but two miles long) Then is the neighbor in question. He has a few thousand acres of fields. So the neighbor in question does'nt actually border me. My immediate neighbor has the same feelings I do, he leases his land to hunt and the cows eat his food plots as well. When they are done eating his food plots they come eat the clover out of my fields.

JP would I shoot them? Probably not, but it just makes me mad that I have to change the way I enjoy my land because someone else chooses to neglect his

Keith
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« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2009, 02:31:58 PM »

Wait, so your fence is still up?  I'm with the sheriff on this one then... unless they are flying cows I don't see how they are getting into your field if your fence is still in-tact.
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« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2009, 03:04:44 PM »

It would be much easier if you lived west of the Mississippi.  The homesteading acts that lead to much of the settling of the west created a whole different standard of land use and water rights than is used east of the Mississippi which is based on English Common law.
In either case, though, a property owner has the right to catch and detain stray animals on his property and place a lien on them for damages.  These damages can include , but not necessrially limited to: damage to fences, buildings, crops, water contamination, and grazing fees.

Your "Neighbor' is using you and your immediate neighbor's property for free pasture.  Until you take some action that makes him realize that his actions are going to cost him more than repairing his fence he will continue to take advantage of the situation.

That's my opinion.  I know a contracter who makes deals to share the equipment used on construction jobs with his subcontractors.  He then bills the subcontractor for using his equipment and denies using any of the subcontractor's equipment.  He's now a Millionaire.
Moral:  Cheating pays if people let you cheat.
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« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2009, 04:02:35 PM »

I like JP's solution if your feild is still fenced in and you can catch the cows out.  Put a gate in and leave the gate open for the cows to get in through.

The another solution is to round up all of the cow patties and leave them on the neighbor's porch and tell him that he left something of his on your property.  But that sounds like too much work...
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Keith13
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2009, 04:05:21 PM »

I like JP's solution if your feild is still fenced in and you can catch the cows out.  Put a gate in and leave the gate open for the cows to get in through.

The another solution is to round up all of the cow patties and leave them on the neighbor's porch and tell him that he left something of his on your property.  But that sounds like too much work...

Now there is a solution I can get behind Wink

Keith
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2009, 09:32:34 PM »

I like JP's solution if your feild is still fenced in and you can catch the cows out.  Put a gate in and leave the gate open for the cows to get in through.

The another solution is to round up all of the cow patties and leave them on the neighbor's porch and tell him that he left something of his on your property.  But that sounds like too much work...

Now there is a solution I can get behind Wink

Keith

Getting behind cow patties usually gets a person splattered!   grin
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2009, 04:48:20 PM »

If he has the money to buy the livestock he has money for fencing. I would load up one head bring it the the slaughterhouse and fill my freezer. Consider it as payment for any damage.
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2009, 06:02:32 PM »

dont shoot any cows or other animals on your property or not, you would have wished you would have let him graze his cows on your land for free when it was all said and done, if you were planning to shoot them you might as well just buy the cows from him first and at lest save on Lawyer and court cost. the only way is to catch them on your land and take pictures or corral them some how, other than that a animal not knowing property lines will fall on you.
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