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Author Topic: Am I gonna die??  (Read 5442 times)
rickomatic
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« on: May 09, 2009, 08:16:21 PM »

I was reading a discussion the other day about poisonous plants for bees and rhododendron and azaleas came up. Well...guess what my girls were working today? Rhododendrens!! and another bush near it that my wife thinks is an azalea. Take a look at this video and tell me what she is actually playing with. They seemed to be going deep into the flowers. This one obviously has something very sticky on her. What is it?
Oh....and am I gonna die?    rolleyes

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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2009, 08:27:46 PM »

I must be missing something, with a lot of these silly newbee posts, that seem to be so often lately !   huh
 
 wierd thread

Bee-Bop
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2009, 08:49:02 PM »

I can garauntee you with 100% certainty that you will die.  I doubt that the honey from your hives, unless you have acres of poisonous plants, will particularily speed up the process!  rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
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jeremy_c
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009, 08:54:05 PM »

I must be missing something, with a lot of these silly newbee posts, that seem to be so often lately !   huh
 
 wierd thread

Bee-bop, I am sure the newbee posts are up as this is the season that we all start smiley I found the question interesting as I have never thought about posionous plants in the area and what effect they may have on the honey. I'll be interested in reading some other follow-up's.

Jeremy
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2009, 08:57:12 PM »

Yes, I agree. It is a proven scientific fact that 100% of beekeepers and also 100% of people who eat honey do die.

 If however you are concerned about dying from Rhododendron honey just put your honey supers on after the rhododendron bloom.  I have heard that bees will generally get nectar from other plants before Rhodys so I personally wouldn't worry about it.
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2009, 08:58:01 PM »

rickomatic, she was placing pollen on her pollen baskets. You will be fine.


...JP
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 09:16:00 PM »

If you have a whole lot of the Azaleas and not much other forage then the honey can make you sick, but just a couple plants wouldn't be enough... or so I've heard.

Also, if you have any kids under 18 months old, they shouldn't eat any honey... it could seriously harm them if they do.
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 09:22:12 PM »

Also, if you have any kids under 18 months old, they shouldn't eat any honey... it could seriously harm them if they do.

Better yet, keep all raw foods away from the newborn.  Honey gets a bad rap for infant botulism because of the lousy warning label someone came up with.  Honey is no more of a risk than raw carrots  shocked
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2009, 09:24:09 PM »

Better yet, keep all raw foods away from the newborn.  Honey gets a bad rap for infant botulism because of the lousy warning label someone came up with.  Honey is no more of a risk than raw carrots  shocked

Very true.  Of course, this is nothing the parents shouldn't have already been told by their pediatrician.
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Natalie
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2009, 10:15:19 PM »

As everyone has said, there are "poisonous" plants but they would have to work alot of them.

I have 2 rhodies and 2 azeleas( as well as half my neighbors) and although they could be working those shrubs I have not noticed it.

Right now they are quite enamored with the forsythia shrubs, pear trees and salvia that is in bloom.

Your bees don't just stay in your yard, they will go all over the neighborhood and up to 2 miles away on an average basis and forage other people's land.

My dad lives a mile away and has a huge rhodedendron in his yard.........
So the bees you see in your yard may belong to another beekeeper who will die instead of you. grin
If it concerns you just make sure you have alot of other things planted that bees like.
You could get rid of your shrubs to put your mind at ease but then for all you know they could be working the same types of shrubs at someone else's house.
I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Hey anyone want to try my Rhodedendron honey? How about Azalea honey? Its a specialty honey. grin
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rickomatic
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2009, 10:37:30 PM »

Quote
I must be missing something, with a lot of these silly newbee posts, that seem to be so often lately !   
 

Just remember, BeeBop. Everyone was a newbee at one time.  Wink And, I believe in that old addage, that there is no such thing as a stupid (silly) question. It's how we learn.
I really wasn't worried about dying. Or even getting sick. That was just my little twised way of asking for information. Like I said, I had read a couple threads lately about those plants, and the conventional wisdom, I thought, was they wouldn't even work them. That's why I was curious.
 I'm just like a kid with a new Christmas present. I want to show it to everyone, and learn as much about it as I can.
Thanks for all the great responses. This forum is, as I've said before, a veritable University of Beekeeping.
 grin
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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2009, 10:45:46 PM »

If you have a whole lot of the Azaleas and not much other forage then the honey can make you sick, but just a couple plants wouldn't be enough... or so I've heard.

Also, if you have any kids under 18 months old, they shouldn't eat any honey... it could seriously harm them if they do.


Or transport them in hot cars !

Dog Gone;

Last I heard OFICALLY by the AMA it was : 12 months

Take every thing you read on these boards with a grain or two of salt.

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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2009, 10:51:06 PM »

rickomatic,  If you are worry about the honey you can send it to me

Johnny
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2009, 10:57:23 PM »

We have tons of em here.  My bees don't really work them too much, lots of other stuff they like better.  The bumbles love em though. Also, this isnt the main flow so this honey will probably be used by the bees for making more bees!  I wouldn't worry too much, the big mac & fries or "little chocolate doughnut" will probably shorten your life more than the honey! J
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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2009, 11:31:20 PM »

Quote
I must be missing something, with a lot of these silly newbee posts, that seem to be so often lately !  
 

Just remember, BeeBop. Everyone was a newbee at one time.  Wink And, I believe in that old addage, that there is no such thing as a stupid (silly) question. It's how we learn.
I really wasn't worried about dying. Or even getting sick. That was just my little twised way of asking for information. Like I said, I had read a couple threads lately about those plants, and the conventional wisdom, I thought, was they wouldn't even work them. That's why I was curious.
 I'm just like a kid with a new Christmas present. I want to show it to everyone, and learn as much about it as I can.
Thanks for all the great responses. This forum is, as I've said before, a veritable University of Beekeeping.
 grin

I'm Sorry:  I just got confused :

Could it be the manner in which the question is asked ?

" Am I going to Die ??"

"I wasn't worried about dying or even getting sick"

" my twisted way of asking for information "

So I guess I just answered in my twisted way, sorry if you got in a huff. I'll try to answer in a more adult manner in the future.

This board has given many children and adults very good info. about bee keeping, lets try to keep it that way .

Bee-Bop
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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2009, 12:03:57 AM »

Quote
This board has given many children and adults very good info. about bee keeping, lets try to keep it that way .

regardless of how the question was asked, good info was given.  info i am interested in because i live in an area that  has a lot of rhododendrons and they are blooming late this year.  usually they'd be about done now, not just opening.

i'll check back through the rules, but i'm pretty sure there is no guidance on formating questions.
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2009, 12:41:38 AM »

There are a lot of rhododendrons growing in the mountains of North Carolina.  They are usually one of the last things that the bees will work, but if nothing else is flowing they will work it.  This happened a year or two ago to a beek up in the mountains.  He ended up with a couple of 55 gallon drums of rhododendron honey.  I got a taste of it.  It was the most vile, disgusting stuff that I have ever tasted.  The little bit that I had left the taste in my mouth for a long time.  This is something that nightmares are made out of.

Rhododendron honey does have poison in it but there is no way that you could eat enough to die, but after just a drop I was wishing that someone would put me out of my misery.  It really was bad.  I am not sure what he did with the drums of honey.  His year was a bust, economically anyway.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2009, 01:15:15 AM »

There are a lot of rhododendrons growing in the mountains of North Carolina.  They are usually one of the last things that the bees will work, but if nothing else is flowing they will work it.  This happened a year or two ago to a beek up in the mountains.  He ended up with a couple of 55 gallon drums of rhododendron honey.  I got a taste of it.  It was the most vile, disgusting stuff that I have ever tasted.  The little bit that I had left the taste in my mouth for a long time.  This is something that nightmares are made out of.

Rhododendron honey does have poison in it but there is no way that you could eat enough to die, but after just a drop I was wishing that someone would put me out of my misery.  It really was bad.  I am not sure what he did with the drums of honey.  His year was a bust, economically anyway.

It would probably still be good honey to feed back to the bees in the fall... at least save a little on the syrup costs maybe?
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rickomatic
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2009, 02:23:05 AM »

Quote
So I guess I just answered in my twisted way, sorry if you got in a huff. I'll try to answer in a more adult manner in the future.

LOL. Not a problem BeeBop. I wasn't in a huff at all. As a matter of fact, a lot of the "credits" I've earned in this "Beemaster University" forum have been under your professorship. Thanks.    cool
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challenger
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2009, 06:41:33 AM »

I agree 100% You are going to die.
Also-on the baby thing. i thought that was 100% BS?? Don't take tylenol either right? Don't eat Chicken because you will get Avian flu. Don't drive a car or you will make the planet warm up. It is all garbage IMO. Swine flu? Please stop the madness. We couldn't make this planet warmer if we tried and even IF (which isn't the case IMO) we could change the climate why is the USA the only one with the fuel that is doing it.
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2009, 07:50:48 AM »

Rickomatic,
I for one continue to learn from all the "silly" questions asked by newbies and experienced beekers on this forum.  I had never even thought about poisonous plants!  Thank you for starting a most interesting thread.  I hope you live a very long and healthy life eating honey.
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2009, 11:36:51 AM »

the baby part is true.    smiley
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2009, 02:02:16 PM »

Honey contains a low amount of botch-u-lism (I don't know how to spell it so welcome back to phonix.).  Baby's under 12 months have not developed the immunities to combat it effectively so you should not feed honey to children that young.  As a practical matter, I understand that it is a small percentage of the the children that would have a problem with the honey but it can be serious so why take a chance on any kid?
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2009, 01:01:36 PM »

Honey contains a low amount of botch-u-lism (I don't know how to spell it so welcome back to phonix.).  Baby's under 12 months have not developed the immunities to combat it effectively so you should not feed honey to children that young.  As a practical matter, I understand that it is a small percentage of the the children that would have a problem with the honey but it can be serious so why take a chance on any kid?

It actually has to do with the acidity and flora of the gut.  Botulism is a reletively weak bacteria that can only thrive and produce a lot of toxin in certain conditions, such as anaerobic non-acid environments (canned beans or a milk-eating baby's gut).  It isn't the bacteria that kills, it is the toxin that it produces. 
In the canned veggies it grows for a while and produces a lot of toxin which sickens or kills people , whereas in a baby that bacterium grows slowly in the gut releasing small amounts of the toxin as it grows which continually weakens the child.  It is hard to diagnose because it is more of a gradual weakening and sickness.

All raw vegetables (probably any uncooked food) can do the same thing that honey does to a baby.  So don't let your baby munch on raw carrots.  Honey mostly got the bad rap from people putting honey on the pacifier to get the kid to suck.

I'm not sure but I think the quicker a baby is put on solid, adult foods the sooner they aren't susceptable to that form of botulism because they develop the good gut bacteria and acidification sooner.
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2009, 02:02:31 PM »

I agree your bees are elsewhere..... those are for the most part somone elses bees on the bush. evil
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2009, 04:37:47 PM »

babies don't have teeth...
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2009, 05:31:49 PM »

Hey, all, it was a great question asked in a most delightfully funny, tongue in cheek manner.

It may or may not have been answered in a "cross" or "disrespectful" manner but who knows what mood the answerer was in.

One of the greatest challenges we all face in the computer age is communicating in a written forum, absent facial expressions and body language to communicate attitudes.  It is HARD and it requires CARE and SKILL.  We don't always have the time or inclination to put the effort required to be sure our writing is written in such a way that it absolutely won't be miss-interpreted by someone.

And as it turned out, the question had a lot more valididity to it than many thought.

The questioner is quite good-natured.  I've seen serious arguments ensue on forums with considerably less inadvertent intimidation.

Congratulations to everyone.  This sure is a great forum and holds great people!  Everyone in this forum usually act as if they are full of sugar water, have a productive mother, are experiencing fair weather, and are just barely smoked.
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2009, 01:02:56 PM »

babies don't have teeth...
If you think so, then you've never breastfed an infant grin
(I haven't either Wink but I've heard plenty of exclaimations from my wife while she did!!!)

The carrot reference was tounge in cheek and I think I may have meant "big people food" instead of "solid food"....

And we wouldn't be having all these great conversations if it weren't for those beginning questions!!!  I figure that if I get annoyed with answering the same beginner questions over and over, then it is time for me to sit back and let some of the newer members have equal opportunity at being a know-it-all.  evil
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Rick
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2009, 01:28:33 PM »

Highly unlikely you will die.  See this...

http://scribalterror.blogs.com/scribal_terror/2008/06/mad-honey.html

"Honey produced from the flowers of rhododendrons, mountain laurels, sheep laurel, and azaleas may cause honey intoxication. Symptoms include dizziness, weakness, excessive perspiration, nausea, and vomiting. Less commonly, low blood pressure, shock, heart rhythm irregularities, and convulsions may occur, with rare cases resulting in death."
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« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2009, 02:13:35 PM »

I have to agree with everyone else here your gonna die unless you've got the foutain of youth in your back yard.  In that case how about sharing some of that stuff.  Oooh by the way the rhododendrons won't kill you.  It has to be in a high concentration while it will make you go unconcious and screw ya up for about a month you'll live.  Mind you that's only an exterme case not been alot of documented posionings by honey.  I'd be more worried about a significant other taking out a lage life insurance policy on me and then trying to stuff food down me.  I watch way too much Investigation Discovery though.  grin
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« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2009, 02:18:50 PM »

Quote
Mind you that's only an exterme case not been alot of documented posionings by honey.


"Since the number of documented cases of "mad honey disease" in the United States in the last quarter-century add up to exactly none it'd be merely paranoid to worry about it."

Taken from http://www.paghat.com/toxichoney.html

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« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2009, 09:35:27 PM »

Rhododendrons don't kill...people kill... Cry
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2009, 08:19:07 AM »

Being surrounded by over eight acres of rhododendons, azaleas and mountain laurel, I was very concerned about this, too, when we started our beekeeping adventure - four years later we are still very much alive!

First of all, honeybees aren't particularly interested in rhodies or azaleas, you'll see far more bumblebees working the blossoms.  They bloom very early in the year, most all of the honey produced will be consumed over the spring season and not make it to your harvest.  Also, toxicity varies, the worst is from R. ponticum.  Grayanotoxin is the name of the disease, you can read more about it here.  You can read about the mad honey wars, etc. here.

In a nutshell, if you've got a couple two three rhodies you are safe, don't worry about it.  Even surrounded by a rhodie forest as we are, we don't worry about it.  If we were in the midst of R. ponticum, we'd think twice about eating our honey.
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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2009, 10:56:25 AM »

I believe it was Paul Arnold who is a palynologist (someone who studies pollen - why the spelling?  has to do with dinosaurs, not pollen) who said that a couple of years ago when we were in the worst of Georgia's drought, the honey in the mountains was made up of mostly mountain laurel - tasted bad and gave people indigestion and the beekeepers couldn't sell it because it did make people sick.....but that's pretty unusual.   

Luckily this year it has rained a lot during the honey flow....slows the bees down so they make less honey but what they make comes from better plants.

Linda T in Atlanta
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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2009, 10:58:00 AM »

Yea, if mountain laurel is all that's available, or rhodies, etc. then that's what they'll go to, but they prefer other nectar sources.
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« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2009, 01:09:03 PM »

Absolutely, Ann - I wasn't very clear.  With the drought many other nectar sources didn't bloom so mountain laurel was the majority of the nectar flow unlike other years when there are lots of flowers from which to choose.  It's not the bees' flower of choice, rather of desperation! huh

LT
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« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2010, 03:30:26 PM »

What about Foxglove.... Digitalis comes from that plant and honey bees love it. It's a drug that strengthens the contraction of the heart muscle, slows the heart rate and helps eliminate fluid from body tissues. It's often used to treat congestive heart failure and is also used to treat certain arrhythmias. I know it is derived primarily from the leaves, but what about the flowers? Any thoughts?
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« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2010, 09:33:26 PM »

Looks like the subject in question has been well covered.
So on to this.

There is no such thing as a silly or stupid question.

Read the next line very carefully.

If anyone on this forum, or you know some body that knows all there is to know about every thing,
Please, please let me know.

Good night, love y'all :)doak
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« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2010, 10:36:59 PM »

Hey Rickomatic!
 I didnt know you were a newbee!
I dont get in here as much as I used to but it seems that Ive seen you here for quite some time now!
 But,....Guess what I'm gonna do this year?
 I gonna plant tons of Angel trumpets!!!! They grow really great here and the bees love them!....On top of that, the plants are considered halucinogenic!
 I'm going to see if my bees can make me some "Happy Honey"!!...I'll be happy....my friends and family will be happy....and, most of all the bees will be happy!...and, if they sting me, I'll get even happier!..I think I'm even gonna run around in the yard naked!
Really tho,....Ive only heard of one plant so far that can be turned into poisonous honey but I just dont remember what it is at the moment...
And,....No,.....You wont die...You will, however, transfer over into another life!
Sometimes, I think I might have a heart attack from eating too much honey!
whewww......It started to get a little tense in here for a moment...I hate when that happens! Sad....If it happens again I might have to start drinkin again!
Hey Doak! did you ever get High Speed internet yet?

your friend,
john
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jsmob
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« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2010, 06:08:30 PM »

If you really want to know what the chance is of you having honey that will make you sick. Here are some known facts about the bee. You can do the math.

1*"Honeybees must visit between 100 and 1500 flowers in order to fill their honeystomachs."
2*"The honey stomach holds almost 70 mg of nectar"
3 There are roughly 60,000 to 80,000 bees per hive.
4 They forage in an area, on average, of 2 1/2 ml radius of the hive.
So go count the number of blooms in this area that bees are attracted to. Subtract the azaleas,  rhododendrons blossoms from the others, figure how many trips the bees could make to the blossoms. You know, do the math. so then you will have your chance of gitting sick from your honey in an urban setting. evil rolleyes

* = fordshoneyfarm.com
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Wynoochee_newbee_guy
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« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2010, 09:18:47 PM »

Um bees working rodies and such won't happen. My Bees work Tansy very Toxic if you injest the plant, but the honey is nice. my bees also work the cascara tree and get nice honey from that tree, but don't use any branch from it to roast hot dogs. So don't worry but if you realy want to bake your noodle read the hive and the honey bee I think thats the book its in. and there is one case in the 1800's were a whole town died from honey from a poision plant.BWHAHAHW!
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Its All Fun And Games Till I lose an EYE!
Michael Bush
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« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2010, 12:05:07 AM »

I've never seen bees work either of these plants, but I'm sure on occasion they will.  It is sold as "specialty" honey in many places and has been for centuries.  Not so popular now that Viagra is available...

As far as babies, honey was (and in many places still is) a standard ingredient in baby formula.  In recent years they have recommend NOT to use it because it can contain botulism, but so does common  household dust, raw vegetables and virtually everything else that isn't sterilized or cooked.  I'm not saying you should feed honey to infants, but too pick on honey and not raw vegetables is inconsistent.  A lot of this has to do with immunity, but more so a baby''s digestive  track is not as acidic as an adult's.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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