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Author Topic: need help with a swarm  (Read 3857 times)
firetool
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« on: March 10, 2005, 08:39:45 AM »

I went and picked up a swarm that was living in a hot water heater. I need to know if any of you have any suggestions on getting them to leave the heater and move to a hive body? I thought about putting a peice of pvc across the opening and attating it to the hive bodie. Then the bees would have to go through the hive inorder to exit it. Any thoughts on the matter. I am all ears.

Thanks,

 Brian
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firetool
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 11:04:45 AM »

I have tried the pvc so far so good. I rapped the pvc in duct tape so it would fit snugly in the water heater opening. They are now comeing trought the hive. I just need to wait and see. I am still open to other ideas though. I am recording my findings for doing it this way. I have teken some pictures of the set up and I will try to post time soon.
 I was also wondering if they start useing the hive body and I find brood in it.  Is there a way to keep the queen in the new hive and allow the new hatching workers to reach the new hive from the water heater.

Thanks,

Brian
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 11:53:23 AM »

The screen wire cone method could be effective to some degree or another.  I haven't tried it, but I would suppose that something like bee quick could be used to drive them out and then brush them into a box and put a cone on so they can't get back in.
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Michael Bush
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Robo
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 01:39:15 PM »

It is very hard to get the queen to leave the current brood area and move into your hive.

I have never had any luck making it happen myself.  Usually with the screen cone method, you provide a new queen in your trap hive.  The bees that exit can not get back thru the cone and eventually you have the majority of the bees in your trap hive with a new (hopefully laying) queen.  Once the trap hive is established,  you remove the cone and let them rob out the remainder of the old colony.

I have heard many methods of trying to lore or force the queen out,  some being pretty extreme such as placing rat poison at the entrance to cause them to obscond.  Most of which I think are wishful thinking.

I have never tried it,  but perhaps the use of Bee-go, Bee Quick or the such, as Michael suggested would be worth a try.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2005, 03:49:04 PM »

I have heard of a knocking method. Never tried it.

With the wire funnel in place, start hammering steadily for about ten minutes and the bees will leave. I think this is suppose to drive out the queen also.

I suppose the outter cover is still on the water heater?Huh I have a torch and grinder if you wish to cut into the thing. PM me.

Perhaps if you pump in a whole lot of smoke they will think it is time to leave because of fire.
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 04:32:48 PM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
I have heard of a knocking method.


If nothing else, it will surely make the ones that do come out pretty angry.
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beesharp
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2005, 06:57:46 PM »

Quote from: Robo
Quote from: Jerrymac
I have heard of a knocking method.


If nothing else, it will surely make the ones that do come out pretty angry.


The term was "drumming" and supposedly used with bee trees or the old log gum hives. Never tried it myself, but I don't think it could hurt - I suspect it would take a while.

Jim
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latebee
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2005, 10:32:31 PM »

Firetool,
        From what I have heard and read a frame of brood in the new hive may entice the bees to accept thier new home. This has never worked for me. What did work once(out of three times) was to place a queen with some attendents in the hive you want them to be in. I have never used pipe,the only experience I have is the screen cone. Tried the brood frame with no luck and two out of three tries with an ordered queen failed,BUT I did have one that worked and was able to get a fine mess of bees for free.Well almost free if you don't count the $36.00 I paid for the queens. Good luck and don't bother with swarm lure if the exit of the colony is tied directly to your catch hive as I don't think it helps in this case.Let us know what your experiences are with this .
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 08:32:38 AM »

To do drumming, just tap, don't hit hard.  A simple rythmic tap tap tap with a pocket knive handle or something small and light and hard works.  It doesn't make them mad, it just makes them move up.
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Michael Bush
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firetool
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2005, 08:24:52 AM »

I will try the drumming method and see how this goes. I did try try smokeing them out it got a lot of bees out  for a while then they just went back in after smoke cleared. I think this is a very strong hive from the looks of it. They emptyied One quart of sugar water in two days.The acttivety around the hive is very good. There are lots of bees in the air around the hive.
 Their is also one more exit point that I had not seen the day before. Their is a lot of activey through this hole in the back of the hive.
 I will keep ever up on what happens with the hive.

Brian
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firetool
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2005, 11:32:31 AM »

I tried the drumming and did not like it, no reall results from it. I went with jerrymac Idea of torch and made an explortory cut at the back of the water heater. I the hive was way up at the front of the water heater. So I cut out about 1and1/2 foot canal and bent it over to let me work in the hive. I got all the brood moved over to the new hive and most ot the bees. I just hope I got the queen to.
 If I by chance killed the queen they will make anouther one? It is realy strong hive. I  will cross my fingers and see what happens.

Brian
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2005, 01:43:33 PM »

If they have brood that isn't too old and you didn't do something bad to them they should make a new queen if you mashed the original. That is what I was worried about on my barn wall bees. Didn't know if I got the queen or not and wasn't sure if the small capped area I found was brood. But for now they are doing fine as far as I can tell. They are out everytime the Temp reaches 45F and they are bringing in pollen.
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firetool
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2005, 05:23:51 PM »

Jerrymac I went back in to the hive to tie in the comb as you suggested. When I had taken the top off guess what I found in a ball of bee,s at the top, the queen I was so happy to see her. I was very careful to not squash her from there on out. I fill a little more confedent about the hive now. cheesy

Thanks everone,

 Brian
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latebee
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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2005, 12:13:42 AM »

I have also tried drumming and have never achieved any level of satisfaction from this method.Too bad you cant open the colony  up and try a home made bee-vac, that works pretty well. If the season is right and you can remove the combs with brood and place them in your hive, the bees themselves will make a new queen even if the present queen is lost in the process of removal.Just cut out the feral comes and put them in frames -securing with either string or rubber bands(which I find easier) making sure to orient them as they were in the old colony.(ie not upside down or sideways). You must feed the colony though as it will keep them vigorous. Proper placement of the feral comb is important if you are to succeed. I have done this myself and was successfull, and I am only a newbee. And also dont worry if the new queen is not perfect I think that the bees themselves will figure that out,and supercede her. Not a perfect method but its workable. Plans for the beevac are posted on the beesource site.
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firetool
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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2005, 02:36:44 AM »

I did open them up with a cutting torch and removed them. First the comb and then hand fulles of bees. It was a very neat filling haveing a hand full of bees.
 I was sucsessful in getting the Queen, I saw her latter in the evening. I had not put the comb in to frames. I used wire to hold the comb in place. I will try rubber bands on the next hive though. I did see the queen though she was up tofard the top of the hive when I found her. So we shall see how the hive does.
 I have almost completed my own bee-vac. As soon as the hose comes in it will be ready. Hope it works,LOL. I wish I could test it out first though. I guess I could if I find a hornts nest first. evil  If any die from that I will know I need to make ajustmints to it. This way I don't kill any bees. Cheesy
 If the design works out I will share it with you guies and gales. i had very little over expense in building it. The vac and hose is all that cost me any thing about thirty dollars is all.

Everbody have a bussing good time,

 Brian
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Robo
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2005, 09:02:31 AM »

Excellent!

I wouldn't be too worried were you spotted the queen.  The good news is you got her.  They are in so much turmoil now,  it will take her a couple of days to settle down and start laying.  Also, depending on which combs you put where, will probably determine where she will start laying.  

Good job,  now you are an expert!!!
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2005, 09:11:29 AM »

Ex is one that was and is no more.

Spirt is a drip under pressure.
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firetool
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2005, 09:55:06 AM »

Jerry I am LOL cheesy  right now. Thats funny. Robo I am just a beginer, but thank you. I just hope I get it right and don't kill to many in the learning prosess. You guies have been a big help I hope one day I can help some one else the same way.

Brian
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Jay
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2005, 04:07:22 PM »

That's what its all about Brian, passin on the love! Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy
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