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Author Topic: new to bee keeping and stumped  (Read 1843 times)
fenux1255
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« on: May 04, 2009, 05:03:00 AM »

Hello all and thank you in advance

  MY wife and I just started raising bees this year about 3 weeks or so ago april 13, 09
we have 2 hives i was told that was a good number to start with.  I set the hives up and all went well almost text book i would say 3 days after i let the queens out and no problems as of then and was able to locate the queens a week or so later but when i went to check on them over the this past weekend i noticed that the one hive had about 7 of the 10 framed drawn out and that there were an abundance of larva at different stages and that they even had started filling in the comb with honey However...

My other hive they were about the same as far as drawing out the comb but when i looked close i could see that there were eggs being laid but it does not seem like they are growing any there all the same size (very very small) and im not sure if thats do to workers laying the eggs or the queen not mating and non of the books i bought really got in to that situation cause i have seen the queen in that hive and that hive i have found a single queen sell as well

SO is this just me being over excited about the hives and wanting them to do good or is it somthing that needs quick
attenition

Fenux1255
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fenux1255
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 05:08:00 AM »

Oh and one more question while i got u here Smiley if the hive that is not doing so hot does need a new queen can i just take one of the frames that had freshly laid eggs from the thriving hive and add it to the hive thats not doing so hot so that they can make a queen or will that not work
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MacfromNS
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 06:32:12 AM »

"My other hive they were about the same as far as drawing
 out the comb but when i looked close i could see that
there were eggs being laid but it does not seem like they
are growing any there all the same size (very very small)"

Do you think maybe the queen has just started laying?
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iddee
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 07:07:01 AM »

Sit back, relax, and wait one week. Many times a queen will be slow beginning. Post back in a week if there is still a problem, but I doubt there will be.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 07:34:37 AM »

Agree with Iddee.  The fact that you were able to see eggs is a good sign. 

Question:  Did you see more than one egg in a cell?  If so, you may have laying workers but if only one egg per cell, then, your queen is doing what she needs to be doing.

Where are you located?


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JP
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 08:44:55 AM »

All is most likely fine, as mentioned. Now about the eggs, a young queen just starting out may lay more than one egg in a cell when she's starting out, this is OK.

Laying workers will lay multiple eggs in every cell and because their abdomens are not as long as a queens, she can't deposit them at the bottom of the cells, so her eggs will not be at the bottom, but on the sides of cells, a problem you most likely don't have to worry about right now.

Congratulations on seeing eggs, that's a tough endeavor for many first time beekeepers.


...JP
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fenux1255
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 01:33:03 PM »

oh that is great news i will relax thats what my wife told me anyway when i started to stew over it lol

there is only one egg in each comb and there are a ton of combs that have eggs in them
thank you guys

and i live in romeo, Mi but my hives are in Imlay City, Mi were my property is at
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sc-bee
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 03:17:18 PM »

>non of the books i bought really got in to that situation cause i have seen the queen in that hive and that hive i have found a single queen sell as well

Has anyone addressed the queen cell issue???
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iddee
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 03:21:57 PM »

>>>>and i live in romeo, Mi but my hives are in Imlay City, Mi were my property is at<<<<

So put Mich. in your profile.

>>>>Has anyone addressed the queen cell issue???<<<<

Likely a beginner's misnomer.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 03:31:05 PM »

welcome to the group Fenux1255

Johnny
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eri
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2009, 03:41:17 PM »

Likely a beginner's misnomer.
Or maybe not. I saw 2 queen cells at the bottom of a frame of a package I hived April 9. One of the cells contained a developing larva. The purpose of my inspection was to check if 80% of the frames had been filled with comb, eggs, capped and uncapped larvae, and stores -- they had been. I also saw the queen.

Based on my own observations and theories developing from what I have read, a single developing queen cell is not cause for "immediate action."

Perhaps the bees were getting crowded and are "thinking" about swarming: I added a second box to give additional space to raise brood and place stores. This is my first guess.

Perhaps the bees want to replace the queen: I will check in a week or so to see how the second box is developing and the status of the queen cell. If I again find a good brood pattern and expansion I will leave the cell and check again in another week or so. In other words, now that I have seen the larva in the cell I will monitor the hive for changes, but I will leave the cell intact. I figure the bees put it there for a reason unbeknownst to me but my own reasoning and curiosity considers it a learning experience.

Best of luck with your bees. I hope others chime in as I am only a second-year beekeeper and still trying to learn.


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On Pleasure
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2009, 03:53:51 PM »

these were packages?  i don't think it's uncommon to see the beginnings of queen cells in newly installed packages.  i have found them in mine and in newly installed swarms.  as long as they have plenty of room,  i would not worry about it.  if they have 7 of 10 frames drawn, you should start thinking about adding another box. you want to have them draw the new frames out before the queen runs out of room.

they may tear the queen cells out, or they may replace the queen.  either way, leave them be and check them again later.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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iddee
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2009, 03:58:20 PM »

>>>>Or maybe not. I saw 2 queen cells at the bottom of a frame of a package I hived April 9. One of the cells contained a developing larva. The purpose of my inspection was to check if 80% of the frames had been filled with comb, eggs, capped and uncapped larvae, and stores -- they had been. I also saw the queen.<<<<

He had no open brood, nor capped brood. His queen had started laying within the prior 3 days. Please explain to me where a queen cell came from. Comparing yours, with open and capped brood, is like apples and rocks, not even as similar as apples and oranges.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2009, 04:23:09 PM »

Quote
Please explain to me where a queen cell came from.

it's a miracle!!   evil

we need pictures.

not an exact comparison, but that last cutout i did had a good start on several queen cells when i checked them after less than 48 hours.  then they tore them out.  seems just because they build them, doesn't mean they are really doing something with them? 

was that single queen cell finished, or just started?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2009, 04:33:24 PM »

Kathyp, When you did the cut out, you cut and installed brood. You did not have queen cells before the first egg hatched into a larva. There's a big difference.

Same with eri. Even if there were queen cups with eggs, it's usually not considered a cell until there is royal jelly in it. That doesn't happen until the egg hatches into a larva.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2009, 04:52:45 PM »

good point.

see, we need you experts on here to point out the errors in our thinking  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
eri
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2009, 07:18:01 AM »

You're right, iddee, I confused the two hives. But in my hive I did see a queen cup before I saw any eggs (which are difficult for me to see) or a queen and it appeared empty to me. A beek I asked called it a "practice" cell. I waited about 10 more days to see larvae and the queen, and that cup was still empty. The cell I first described did have royal jelly in it. In either case, my point is that I am trying to learn when not to panic and to have patience.

As to terminology, a "queen cup" is a structure that may or may not contain an egg and may be constructed with or without the presence of a queen, and becomes a "queen cell" when it contains both a larva and royal jelly?
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On Pleasure
Kahlil Gibran
....
And to both, bee and flower, the giving and the receiving of pleasure is a need and an ecstasy.
People of Orphalese, be in your pleasures like the flowers and the bees.
JP
The Swarm King
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2009, 08:14:44 AM »

From Eri --------  "As to terminology, a "queen cup" is a structure that may or may not contain an egg and may be constructed with or without the presence of a queen, and becomes a "queen cell" when it contains both a larva and royal jelly?"

Correct.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
sc-bee
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2009, 02:19:23 PM »

>MY wife and I just started raising bees this year about 3 weeks or so ago april 13, 09
we have 2 hives i was told that was a good number to start with.  I set the hives up and all went well almost text book i would say 3 days after i let the queens out and no problems as of then and was able to locate the queens

>i looked close i could see that there were eggs being laid but it does not seem like they are growing any there all the same size (very very small)

While we picking it Wink! Seems to me three weeks has passed and he released the queen in three days after installing the packages.
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