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Author Topic: requeening check  (Read 571 times)
tlynn
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« on: May 03, 2009, 07:18:32 PM »

In a few other posts I talked about the splits I was doing this past week.  Here's a quick synopsis and results today - I split a hive into three this past week and queened the 2 new hives along with requeening another low producing hive.  I retained the queen in the donor hive.  So in all I queened 3 hives.  Hives were split on Tuesday.  Queens put in on Wednesday.  This afternoon (Sun) I found:

1) The requeened hive - saw no eggs, saw queen and saw 7 queen cells, a couple with larva, a couple capped, and the rest empty, all high on the faces of frames.
2) New hive from split - saw queen and eggs.  Looking good.
3) New hive from split #2 - saw queen, eggs and 4 queen cells, 2 capped and 2 with larvae, same locations.

The big thing I noticed, other than all the queen cells, in all the hives is back filling of brood frames, even though all the hives are well supered (strong flow right now).  On the frames that were previously full of brood in the donor hive, the speckeled pattern of emerged brood and capped brood now has nectar just about everywhere brood cells were.  Will they move this nectar outward and upward as the new queens are established?  And what do you make of all those queen cells?  The hives that I queened were without queens for right at 24 hrs.  Do they switch into queen rearing mode that quickly?

Oh, and one WAY cool thing - I added some foundationless frames to another hive and they are starting to add beautiful natural comb on it and it already has eggs, after only one week.  I want to transition to all foundationless and this is a really encouraging start.
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doak
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2009, 08:54:11 PM »

Looks like they are trying to supersede.
The back filling is for later to come brood.
Don't want to add any honey supers to splits. Unless you did have a large split.

On number 1, you may have re queened when there was already a superseding in progress.
doak Smiley
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 12:15:46 AM »

Looks like they are trying to supersede.
The back filling is for later to come brood.
Don't want to add any honey supers to splits. Unless you did have a large split.

On number 1, you may have re queened when there was already a superseding in progress.
doak Smiley

Supercedure with a staggard hatch time.  That can mean more swarms still.    I don't remember how may hives you had, just that you split 1 big hive into 3 parts.  If you have other hives you might try adding another frame or two of brood from one of those other hives to each frame of bees with egss, larvae, or capped queen cells. 
If you pull those and replace them with foundationless or even foundation frames it will open up the brood chamber, cause the bees to pull the honey from some of that backfilled cells and start drawing new comb. for the new queen to lay in.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 04:48:51 AM »

>I don't remember how may hives you had, just that you split 1 big hive into 3 parts.  If you have other hives you might try adding another frame or two of brood from one of those other hives to each frame of bees with egss, larvae, or capped queen cells.

Are you saying split the parent hive further? I understand this supercedeing of new queens is fairly common. This is often due to queens banked to sell and not laying properly when introduced. I have read this is why alot of people introduce new queens in push in cages?

The above is piggybacking off of your question because I have a hive doing the same to a new queen and it was a weak hive I replaced the queen in. Is this a different situation and handled different from the above strong hive.

I guess my general question is about any hive strong or weak superceding a new queen. I have been told they don't like the new queen let them supercede her. I understand the reasoning but wonder about losing the new queen and time lost for the queen cell to hatch etc. If you take the cells out is there a chance the new queens pheromone will catch up and the hive will stop trying to replace her?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 10:27:26 PM »

Quote
Quote
author=sc-bee link=topic=21861.msg167224#msg167224 date=1241426931]
I don't remember how may hives you had, just that you split 1 big hive into 3 parts.  If you have other hives you might try adding another frame or two of brood from one of those other hives to each frame of bees with egss, larvae, or capped queen cells.

Are you saying split the parent hive further? I understand this supercedeing of new queens is fairly common. This is often due to queens banked to sell and not laying properly when introduced. I have read this is why alot of people introduce new queens in push in cages?

The longer a queen is held in a queen bank and not laying eggs, the better the chance of her developing some problem the hive doesn't like, often just a change in the phermones she is producing.

Quote
The above is piggybacking off of your question because I have a hive doing the same to a new queen and it was a weak hive I replaced the queen in. Is this a different situation and handled different from the above strong hive.

I guess my general question is about any hive strong or weak superceding a new queen. I have been told they don't like the new queen let them supercede her. I understand the reasoning but wonder about losing the new queen and time lost for the queen cell to hatch etc. If you take the cells out is there a chance the new queens pheromone will catch up and the hive will stop trying to replace her?

Some queen, with genetic faults, pass those same faults onto any queen that supercedes her.  This can cause an endless progression of supercedure with the hive getting progressively weaker.  There is only 2 cures for this situation: 1. kill the queen and supercedure cells and combine, or 2. kill the queen and supercedure cells and combine from an outside source, that is a new line of stock.
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