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Author Topic: SHB Larva in the oil trap in the bottom board  (Read 5095 times)
SlickMick
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« on: March 19, 2009, 07:36:47 PM »

I have a Nuc which has been recently housed in a deep and is going along really well, lots of brood and eggs. However this morning I discovered some SHB larva in the oil trap in the floor along with maybe a dozen adult SHB. This collected in the past 6 days. I was unable to see any other larva in the brood or other frames but I would expect them to be there. There were free running SHB in the box which I eliminated as much as I could considering their agility.

Question is how do I deal with the larva that must be in the box. I have a shallow super on with 8 frames and they are bringing nectar in and storing it there in addition to the space in the brood box. The super has some eggs in it and a couple of frames of 75% capped honey.

Another question has to be do the SHB larva grow in the cells like the bee larva or are they mobile from the start?

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 06:27:37 AM »

Can anybody help? huh
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
HAB
HEAVENLY BEEKEEPER
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Location: S. Alabama, USA USDA Temp Zone 8A


« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 11:01:11 AM »

We don't, but someone else might, know of anything you can do about SHB larva in the comb.  If you find a comb that has significant amounts of larva or smells bad remove it and freeze it.  That will kill the larva and any Bee brood on it. Then place the comb about 20ft from the hive so the Bees can recover any usable honey.

Last year we had major SHB problems in weak hives.  If yours are weak try reducing the available comb and space for the Bees to cover.  If they are very weak return them to a Nuc untill they build up. AJ Beetle eaters and Hood Beetle Traps can be used with Nucs.  As can FatBeeMans Beetle traps =
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_KDPp8H6PU


SHB are a big problem here for us and we have to be ever on the watch for them.  Some Bees deal with them better than others.  If yours don't you might want to try one of those breeds that seem to Bee better able to.  Wish you the best.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 12:19:35 PM »

Are they dead in the oil?

Sometimes the beetles will try to get something going, and a bunch of larvae will survive for a bit before the bees can get around to dealing with them.  It may be just fine if the bees and hive seems healthy.

And yes, the larvae are completely mobile, they can burrow under capped brood.  If you see any suspicious capped brood, it may have a problem under it.

Rick
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Rick
ArmucheeBee
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Location: Rome, Georgia


« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 03:10:16 PM »

I'd like to see or hear more about your oil trap.  I have a nuc hive (multiple nucs on top) l'd like to experiment with this oil trap on a small scale. 
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Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 05:10:58 PM »

I'd like to see or hear more about your oil trap.  I have a nuc hive (multiple nucs on top) l'd like to experiment with this oil trap on a small scale. 

I'll take some pics today and see if I can post them
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 05:18:49 PM »

Are they dead in the oil?

Sometimes the beetles will try to get something going, and a bunch of larvae will survive for a bit before the bees can get around to dealing with them.  It may be just fine if the bees and hive seems healthy.

And yes, the larvae are completely mobile, they can burrow under capped brood.  If you see any suspicious capped brood, it may have a problem under it.

Rick

Oh yes they are dead in the oil. At times they have come out of the oil if they have just been immersed but it seems that they cant cope with the oil blocking their respiration. The larva are also dead.

I had a look at both hives that I have at home yesterday and I found only 2 beetle in one of them, none in the other.. a vast improvement on the counts I was getting previously although I would expect that I will see more shb shortly from hatchings. Did not see any larva.

This morning I had a look in the oil traps... No SHB  grin grin

Bees seem to be a lot happier and so am I. Its good to smell the honey in the yard once again 
Logged

On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
ArmucheeBee
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Location: Rome, Georgia


« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 08:46:49 PM »

Didn't you post some pics of this in another thread?  I think I saw it.
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Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 09:10:52 PM »

I actually posted a link to a site where I got my info from. I have since modified how I make them and insert them into the bottom board. I find now that they are quite bee proof and also that they work very well.

This morning I killed the queen in the hive of my combined nucs to install a new queen.. result only 3 dead shb 1 dead larva and none observed running in the hive.. a big difference from when I brought them home a few days ago when I had a dozen or so overnight plus larva.
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2009, 04:56:59 PM »

Took some pics the other day but have only got around to posting them today.

OOPS that didn't work. Have to do some serious work on my pic posting technique

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
JoelinGA
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Location: Fayetteville, GA


« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 12:54:58 PM »

Yeah, they're mobile. Had a huge problem with those buggers last year that I thought I had under control until I got my hives ready for the winter. Luckily one of them made it through, wish the other one did.

Don't know what to do about larvae, I made it a habit to terminate with extreme prejudice the adults I find.

My hive that made it through the winter looks to be really strong so hoping those girls can take care of the problem on their own now. But will still try and help any way I can.

Had some success with AJ Beetle Traps, but later on the SHB were not going to them.

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gwalker314
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 04:20:40 PM »

I know there has been a lot of discussion about traps and boric acid use over the years as I was looking thru old threads. It seems that Don's corragated plastic boric acid traps have been working for others. From what I see roach prufe is 99% boric acid. Has anyone tried using roach motels covered with #7 or #8 hardware screen to keep the bees out? I have only had my hive going for about 2 weeks so I don't have any proven suggestions. I am looking for a good control method myself. Seems the dark hole would attract the beetles and the roach motel would put them to sleep.

GW
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Cindi
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2009, 11:23:11 AM »

Took some pics the other day but have only got around to posting them today.

OOPS that didn't work. Have to do some serious work on my pic posting technique
Mick

Mick, I created a word document that tells how to easily make images to come into our forum, it uses ImageShack.  For what it is worth, read the below stuff and it may help you to get some images in for us to see, sometimes it is hard to firstly get the images in, but once you figure it out, it is very simple. Good luck, would love to see your pictures, have that great, wonderful day, health.  Cindi

This is a lot of information, Buzzbee was the one that made this thread below, check it out:

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=8167.msg51193#msg51193
This is a dteailed description by Cindi you may find helpful.
If you still have trouble you can PM me the link too the photo and I would gladly post it for you.  Ken
  These are the instructions that can be copied into the forum or you can go into the topic in the forum, listed above.
OK, first, download the pictures onto your computer?  I guess I should have asked that firstly.

Thumbnails are preferred for picture posting, as many people do not have cable and only have dial-up, which can take a while.  But you can resize your images to under 100kb, which is suitable for picture posting and you can post in full size images, but the method is slightly different.  I will desribe each method.

Thumbnails:
Go into the forum and create a post.
Type some text just to get it going.
Below the text box you will see a field that is blank and beside is the "browse" button. 
Click on browse
This will take you to your computer
Find where you stored your picture
Click on the picture name
And then choose "open"
The picture data information will appear in the window to the left of the "browse" button, it designates where the picture is located on your computer
Below the "browse" button and find the words "Host it"
Click on host it and you will enter the "Imageshack" software that will come up in a screen
It should show your picture in there.
Above your picture you will see several links to forum 1 or 2 etc (these are for using thumbnails.
Click "hotlinks to forum 1", this highlights the line, it will turn blue
Click on it, then do the right click to copy the picture
Close the imageshack (you know, click the X on the top right of screen)
Now go back to the place where you typed your text and where you want the image to be placed, right click again to paste your picture

You're basically done.  Each picture that you want to post in this post you will have to go manually into image shack. I have tried to do multiples, but it goofed up on me, you probably can, but I couldn’t figure it out.  Good luck

Full sized pictures -- for those that have resized their pictures to under 100 kb and prefer not to use thumbnails, but full sized pictures.

First, you must have a good image resizer program.  Do you use one?  I will assume you know what this program does.

I would suggest you go into a site called "VSO image resizer".  That is what I use to resize my images to send into the forum, it is very very user friendly and fast.  So, do that first, unless you have a good image resizer program.

On my desktop I make a folder for my forum pictures.  I copy a picture from a file into the folder and then proceed with the image resizing.  It just makes it simple to find the pictures that way, instead of looking all over the map each time I want to upload a picture.  That is my first step.  Then I resize the picture.  Resize them to 640 X 420 (or whatever it is, something similar).  You will see your pictures will probably be resized to between 40 to 100 kb, these should upload easily.

Go into the forum and create a post.
Type some text just to get it going.
Below the text box you will see a field that is blank and beside is the "browse" button. 
Click on browse
This will take you to your computer
Find where you stored your picture
Click on the picture name
And then choose "open"
The picture data information will appear in the window to the left of the "browse" button, it designates where the picture is located on your computer
Below the "browse" button and find the words "Host it"
Click on host it and you will enter the "Imageshack" software that will come up in a screen
It should show your picture in there.
Above your picture you will see several links to forum 1 or 2 etc, ignore these, they are for thumbnails
Below your picture you will see two lines regarding the posting to forum 1 and forum 2
You want to select the first line "hotlinks to forum 1", highlight the line, it will turn blue
Click on it, then do the right click to copy the picture
Close ImageShack (you know, click the X on the top right of ImageShack)
Now go back to the place where you typed your text and where you want the image to be placed, right click again to paste your picture

Before you post your post, you should preview it.  That will show exactly what your post will look like with the picture inserted.

You're basically done.  Each picture that you want to post in this post you will have to go manually into image shack. I have tried to do multiples, but it goofed up on me, you probably can, but I couldn’t figure it out.  Good luck
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 05:48:02 AM »

Thanks for all of that Cindi. I have been away for a while and I am only now beginning to catch up with things. Will have another go at posting pics tomorrow

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 07:47:03 AM »

It may well be that I have managed to post my pics with Cindi’s help. Thanks Cindi.

My pics are about how I make my oil traps for the SHB in my bottom board. They are quite effective. Firstly I get hold of a metal tray and cut a hole in the bottom board a bit less than the size of the pan in the tray. I make sure that all corners are rounded to that the SHB has nowhere to hide.



I then get hold of some .8mm thick aluminium and cut it to fit into the hole that I have cut in the bottom board.



This piece of metal forms the top of the trap and is held in the hole by some pins set into the bottom board



Slots are cut in the aluminium using a 2.00 to 2.4mm thick metal cutting disc on my angle grinder. The process leaves a ragged edge on the slots and I remove this rough edge with an orbital sander. Eye protection using these tools is essential



The slotted  trap top is now inserted into the hole in the bottom board.



The trap can be seen from underneath



It is fixed in place using linseed oil based window glaziers putty. The putty is also used to remove a corner between the metal top of the trap and the bottom board so that the SHB cant hide there.



As now seen from underneath the tray for the oil is now supported by 2 runners going he full width of the bottom board. The runners hold the tray against the timber of the bottom board so the SHB cannot escape the trap. A stop can be placed so that the tray always locates over the centre of the trap.



The putty is also used to remove a corner between the metal top of the trap and the bottom board so that the SHB cant hide there.

I usually check the traps once a week and I am always surprised by how many SHB is in them. To save wasting oil I reuse it after pouring it into a container through tissue paper or similar to remove the ants and SHB.

Even though I seem to be catching more beetle than when I first installed the traps, there is not more beetle in the hives. I am forming a view that the bees have learnt how to move the beetle into the trap. I hope so anyhow.
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
SlickMick
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Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 07:50:43 AM »

PS I forgot to mention that the trays are about 12" x 9" and fit nicely lengthwise across the bottom board Smiley
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
ArmucheeBee
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Location: Rome, Georgia


« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 06:21:57 PM »

Thanks Mick.  that's my summer project.  i had the top off a hive the other evening about 8pm.  at about 2 min. intervals SHB coming hovering in smelling the hive.  i killed 4.
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Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants
SlickMick
Field Bee
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Posts: 590


Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2009, 07:27:34 PM »

I cleaned the traps out yesterday on the 2 hives that I have at home after 2 to 3 weeks. Although I didnt count the SHB bodies I estimated that there were probably 100 in each trap. Clean trap yesterday and 3 SHB total in the traps this morning. Inspected the hives last monday pulling all frames and found less than a handful of SHB in each hive mostly on the bottom board. I actually watched a couple of SHB being chased into the trap.
Logged

On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
Cindi
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Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2009, 11:27:59 PM »

Mick, thank you for the kind words, I am glad my rather lengthy instructions helped you along.  Your pictures and the narration are great, thank you for showing us what you are up to.  Have that wonderful and most awesome day, life and health.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
SlickMick
Field Bee
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Posts: 590


Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2009, 06:02:55 AM »

This is a pic of the oil trap in my hive out at my archery club. I cleaned the trap out 6 days ago and apart from the usual debris at the bottom of the hive, there is a number of dead SHB (about 13) and 1 matured SHB larva. When I cleaned the trap I also drew all the frames in the hive and apart from the odd SHB on the frames and bottom board I saw no larva and I hope that it has no brothers or sisters in there also. I did watch the bees hassle one or two SHB through the slots in the trap. I checked the traps in the 2 hives I have at home this afternoon and there were a couple of swimmers in the oil (SHB that had entered the oil and were learning breaststroke... and not very well I might add)

Mick

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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
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