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Author Topic: Cutout... got any tips?  (Read 2100 times)
SgtMaj
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« on: April 30, 2009, 04:30:53 AM »

Doing the cutout for my coworker a week from Sunday.  I can't wait. 

So... got any tips?
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Robo
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 07:11:22 AM »

Read as many of these as possible, and don't make the same mistakes

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/board,77.0.html
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 08:54:47 AM »

Well that's all good, but I was thinking more along the lines of things like how to cut comb in the least damaging way... I haven't yet seen that in any of those threads... more like just bringing enough boxes/frames.
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Robo
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 10:06:27 AM »

Well that's all good, but I was thinking more along the lines of things like how to cut comb in the least damaging way... I haven't yet seen that in any of those threads... more like just bringing enough boxes/frames.


My method is to use a bee vac to suck the bees off of the side of the comb facing me.  If the comb is honey/nectar I then smoke as many bees off the back of the comb as possible and cut manageable chucks from the bottom working my way up.   If the comb is brood and honey/nectar,  I cut the comb at the top of the brood and let in fall into my hand with the comb facing me down,  I then vac the bees off the back(top) side.   Then cut out the honey/nectar portion.   The key is to keep honey/nectar dripping to a minimum.  Honey kills, especially if you suck up a bunch of honey coated bees into the bee vac.   You will end up with a sticky ball of dead bees.   Get yourself a good serrated knife for cutting comb.

I'm in the process of rounding up a panel of "removal experts" for the May 14th WildlifePro.net podcast that I am co-hosting,  but sounds like that is too late to help you.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 10:45:52 AM »

read the sticky on equipment also.  you'll need most of that stuff.

where are these bees?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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SgtMaj
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 11:03:26 AM »

I'm in the process of rounding up a panel of "removal experts" for the May 14th WildlifePro.net podcast that I am co-hosting,  but sounds like that is too late to help you.

Yup, about a week too late.  But thanks for the tip on cutting the comb.  What about frames?  I've seen the one that are supposed to be made for cutouts... are they worth getting or should I just use twine to tie in the comb?

where are these bees?

In a garage wall, I'll be going in from the outside through wood siding.  The garage will be torn down about a week later.
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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 11:23:07 AM »

I am going to have to disagree with Robo on one small item. For many years, I cut the comb from the bottom up, or from one end to the other, if horizontal.
I would get 40 to 60% of the queens. When cutting from one end straight through, the queen runs just ahead of you and finds a crack or crevice to run into before you find her.

Now, I cut all the outside comb from around the brood chamber first, then remove the brood comb except for two combs approx. 10 to 12 inches long, in the center of the brood area. Then I take a break for 30 minutes or so. By then, the bees will gather on the box or on the two remaining brood combs, whichever the queen is on. The queen very seldom  leaves the brood area and transverse the open space you have created around her. If she does, she will return to the two brood combs. Now I get 99% or more of the queens.
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 11:31:26 AM »

I am going to have to disagree with Robo on one small item. For many years, I cut the comb from the bottom up, or from one end to the other, if horizontal.
I would get 40 to 60% of the queens. When cutting from one end straight through, the queen runs just ahead of you and finds a crack or crevice to run into before you find her.

Now, I cut all the outside comb from around the brood chamber first, then remove the brood comb except for two combs approx. 10 to 12 inches long, in the center of the brood area. Then I take a break for 30 minutes or so. By then, the bees will gather on the box or on the two remaining brood combs, whichever the queen is on. The queen very seldom  leaves the brood area and transverse the open space you have created around her. If she does, she will return to the two brood combs. Now I get 99% or more of the queens.

I can't disagree with your method.  My problem is 90% of the time I don't seem to have access to both sides and need to work thru the colony like a book.
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Robo
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 11:37:17 AM »

  What about frames?  I've seen the one that are supposed to be made for cutouts... are they worth getting or should I just use twine to tie in the comb?


It's a personal preference.  I like the cut-out frames -> http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/cut-out-frames/

I find it easier to open up the frame, add the comb, close it an move on.   With using twine, you need to be more accurate with your cuts as you will be using the frame for some of your support so you want a somewhat tight fit.  I also am knot challenged at times and getting the twine tight can become an issue, especially with sticky hands.  Rubber bands work OK as well, but once again you want to cut the comb to fit somewhat tight as the rubber band do stretch and you can't totally rely on them to keep the comb vertical.
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iddee
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 11:48:19 AM »

>>>>My problem is 90% of the time I don't seem to have access to both sides and need to work thru the colony like a book.<<<<

It sounds like you listen to JP too much, and work from the outside of the building.   evil    grin

 I work nearly all mine from the inside of the building. Many more can be totally uncovered before cutting comb that way.

As for the cutout frames, they are worth their weight in gold. Tying, wiring, or banding are totally obsolete.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 11:51:35 AM »

i use the rubber bands because i am knot challenged also   grin  i have not had a problem with the 3" office type coming loose.  the fat ones are best, and depending on the weight and size of comb, i use 3 or 4 per frame.  i put them on first, pushed to the ends.  when i place the comb, it's easy to pull the bands toward the center and secure the comb.  

by accident i have done the removal iddees way.  i just wanted to get the honey and empty comb out of the way...and the pictures look better if it's kind of even.......

sounds like you got a good one to start with.  a wall in a building that doesn't matter.  

Quote
Tying, wiring, or banding are totally obsolete

but for those of us who are chronic cheapskates.....maybe i'll learn to make my own........
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JP
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 08:50:07 PM »

For your first cut out it would be more enjoyable if you have an extra set of hands to assist you and the BSing during the procedure is always nice.

Make sure you have a bucket of water handy for wiping off excess honey from tools and your hands.

I like a serrated knife and scrapers for removing comb but a razor knife is hard to beat for cutting the comb sections to fit your frames.

If you have any specific questions ask away.

Like I said before Iddee, you can remove all you want from the interior, I'll be on the exterior, removing bees while enjoying the breeze. Wink


...JP
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2009, 06:59:16 AM »

Ok, couple questions I thought of...

For the removed comb, do I need to keep the comb oriented the same direction in frame, or can I turn it sideways to better fit the frame (or upside down if I accidentally forget which way was right side up on a piece of comb)?

I decided to go with just regular frames instead of cutout frames but which is better for cutout comb, GTB or WTB?  I'm thinking WTB since it would seem to mimic the wedges on TBH "frames" and thus might give the bees a better chance at attaching it to the frame but you tell me.

Another question, if it ends up being a dead-out, and I can determine that the hive died from starvation, if you were me, would you consider re-using the comb on another hive (the swarm hive that doesn't have a whole lot of comb already) or would you melt it all down just in case?

There is also definately a bumble-bee hive in this same wall and I may not have any other choice but to open it up at the same time that I open up the honeybee hive.  How would you deal with the bumble-bees?  I also would like to remove them somehow so that my co-worker doesn't have to deal with any bees at all when he tears down the garage, but I really don't have a good place on my small property to put a bumble bee nest, and we have plenty of bumble bees that visit our property anyway, so I'm not too particular about keeping them.  What would you do?
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2009, 08:33:24 AM »

One more question on top of the last few, if it does turn out to be a dead-out and there's still honey in the hive, if it were you, would you consider keeping any of it for your own consumption (I know my coworker didn't spray the hive, I couldn't make any guarantees about neighbors).
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JP
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2009, 09:51:44 AM »

Its your choice as to GT or WT, if GT use starter strips in conjunction with their comb, so they can have a guide to fill in the gaps on either end.

I always position comb sections between frames the same way the combs hung directionally. This just makes good sense to me.

If there is any doubt whatsoever that someone may have sprayed and contaminated comb, don't consider using any comb from this colony.

As for the bumbles, good luck! You haven't been stung appropriately until you've been stung by bumbles!

If there is a way to perform the cut out by sequestering the bumble colony, do the cut out and get back to the bumbles when you're done with the honeybees.

If you have no choice in the matter, suit up extra, like you did when you caught your first swarm.



...JP
 



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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2009, 10:00:09 PM »

Well, the cutout is first thing in the morning.  For once I actually remembered to bring my camera, so hopefully I'll also remember to take some pictures.  Thanks for all the advise everyone.  I am so looking forward to getting off work in the morning.
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JP
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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2009, 10:18:55 PM »

Good luck with your removal.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

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G3farms
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2009, 10:27:31 PM »

Just found that you are doing your cut out in the morning, would love to come and help but my girls are playing their volleyball tournements this week end.

Would of come otherwise though.

Get some good pics if you can and good luck with it.

G3
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those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

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SgtMaj
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2009, 10:30:01 PM »

Thanks, like I said in another post, it may end up being a dead-out, but I'm still hopeful it won't be just a dead-out.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2009, 10:20:51 AM »

Well, so much for this one... got nuthin.  No bees, no comb, only a few bumble bees and bumble bee nests... and wasp nests, and mud dauber nests, and hornet nests... but no honey bee comb or anything... I am sure there were bees in there at one time, but everything is gone now.  Oh well, you win some you lose some.
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2009, 10:34:30 AM »

Sounds like you found every kind of bee except honey bees.

Now take the wifey out to eat some place nice.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
SgtMaj
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2009, 10:49:23 AM »

You got that right... every last thing but a honey bee.  Thing is, I am positive they had them in that garage at some point last year.  The wife of the guy said she had bumped the wall last year and they came out and were flying all around her but never stung her... yellow jackets would have stung, and they definately knew the difference between honey bees and bumble-bees.  Plus they live just a mile or so away from a large commercial apiary (that winery and apiary up in Caryville where they make just about every kind of mead imaginable).
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