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Author Topic: Talk of the town  (Read 6168 times)
Bee Happy
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« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2009, 09:10:50 AM »

isn't it meaningless without an ordinance?
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iddee
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« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2009, 12:30:51 PM »

He means there is no BEE ordinance. There is a nuisance ordinance. It can be used for anything that irritates the powers that be.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Bee Happy
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« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2009, 07:44:05 PM »

wow, talk about dirty underhanded politics ( wasn't the commercial guy in a commercially zoned - or unzoned- area?) and I realize I'm degenerating my questions into stuff for a courtroom, but 1: why could they order him to reduce his hives if he's in a commercial, agricultural, or unzoned area? 2: if the commercial beekeeper decides to fight, doesn't he get a ton of credit if he had his operation before the primary complainant moved himself in (as in - they guy buying the house didn't know there were 100 hives next door?)
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zzen01
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« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2009, 09:39:39 PM »

Why don't you run for office. We need more beeks in office.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2009, 09:52:48 PM »

I vaguely remember something about : If there is a brawl in congress (among congress) it stays in congress.  evil
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lenape13
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2009, 07:38:49 AM »

Here's a novel idea... have the irritating neighbor declared a nuisance and have him removed....  evil
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alfred
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2009, 09:28:44 AM »

Have you gone over to the neighbors yard to see what the fuss is about? Find out if they are really bees. If they are show him that they are not dangerous. Suggest solutions. Talk to him and educate him. Give him some honey. Convert him to the way of the bee..
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Highlandsfreedom
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2009, 10:57:17 AM »

All great info. I think Ill try to write a letter to the newspaper and see what happens. The other beek is going to set up a booth at the county fair and Im going to try to help with that. He usually takes his ob hive and sels some honey. Im going to print out a bunch of facts about bees and post them up or give them to him for him to display. Do any of your towns or goverments have their ordianceses posted on the internet? If so can you post their link.

I live up here in Denver and we just passed a ordance for the city of Denver to allow bees to be kept in the city lots.  They are noe working on Chickens I would check it out.

Dave
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MustbeeNuts
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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2009, 01:00:56 PM »

Well lets see what the next move is,  check. not mate.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2009, 02:31:53 PM »

Here's a novel idea... have the irritating neighbor declared a nuisance and have him removed....  evil

I'd bet the farm that if the beekeeper winds up legally in the right - he's got a darn good harassment suit in his hands.

even better, highlands, you're in Colorado as well "precedents" etc.
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Shawn
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« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2009, 08:04:35 AM »

The whole thing started because there were bees in the neighbors dog water dish and in the back of his truck where he kept old pop cans. We talked to the neighbor several times to let him know how to keep the bees away but he was determined to shut the guy down. I dont think the model ordinance helped because it said 2 or 3 hives per 1/4 acre or less. Anyway, I drove by last night and noticed the beek had his pickup in theyard and some hives were gone  Undecided I think this will really put a damper on him not being bale to have his bees close. Ill keep watch and let everyone know what happens.
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G3farms
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« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2009, 08:26:56 AM »

if the beek had the resources I would remove all of the hives and replace them with about 20  hives that did not have any bees in them. Let the nosey neighbor see the empty hives and call in with complaints that "the beek has moved even more hives into the yard", then let the cops or who ever investigate and find empty hives. This would make the nosey neighbor look like the cronic complainer that he really is.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Dubhe
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« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2009, 10:09:36 AM »

Wait a minute.  33 hives on a small lot in the middle of a city is absurd.  As much as I love bees, my 5 backyard hives throw out alot of annoying bees during a dearth.  For someone who enjoys no economic or recreational benefit (like this complainant), and who probably has a normal fear of stinging insects, it's not unreasonable for him to try to solve his problem through the city.  The fact that the beek's yard is zoned industrial isn't a free pass.  He certainly can't launch rockets or do blasting, and launching (33 x 45,000) bees can also impact the surrounding community.

A bee ordinance is probably the way to go.  None that I've seen would allow such a large operation in the middle of a city.  A reasonable, well thought out ordinance would go far to preserve everyone's rights.
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kathyp
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« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2009, 11:07:31 AM »

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a reasonable, well thought out ordinance would go far to preserve everyone's rights.

no ordinance preserves everyones rights.  NO ordinance does that.

it does not matter if there are 3 or 33.  bees will still be there.  i guarantee that this person will be no more happy with a few hive than with many. 

a couple of years ago, i bought the equipment of a beekeeper who had died.  he and his wife had kept many hives on a larger city lot.  it can be done and done well.  when a person own property they should be able to do with it what they want as long as what they are doing is not actually harming someone.  doing something that someone does not like, is not the same as doing harm.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Dubhe
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« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2009, 12:23:19 PM »

I have to respectfully disagree with you there Kathy.  Ordinances codify limits to behavior as well as intrusion by government.  That includes the misuse of governmental instruments (police, code enforcement) by people for their own interests.  By enacting a reasonable ordinance for the keeping of bees, everyone is held to an objective standard.  As it stands now, a catch-all nusance ordinance can be misused to limit beekeeping within this city.  These, very broad codes are subjectively interpreted and do more damage to people's rights than a limited, precise code.

You're correct that it's likely that the beekeeper may be unhappy with the number of hives that he may be allowed after the ordinance is passed, but the complainant is likely to be just as unhappy that he didn't get beekeeping outlawed.  that's called a reasonable compromise.  The truth is that too many hives in a densely populated area WILL impact the community.  There are beekeepers in downtown NYC who succesfully keep bees.  They practice it in a reasonable manner to minimize impact.

Your definition of "actual harm" is also subjective.  A homeowner's right to watch his grandchildren play in his yard is just as important as a beek's right to keep bees.  If he is petrified of bees, he can't enjoy his property.  That's actual harm.  All of us know that living next to 33 hives is different than 4 hives.  Fighting against a reasonable compromise in this case will probably doom beekeeping in this jurisdiction.

I also disagree with you in thinking that it's us against the government.  Like you, I also love the Constitution.  We ARE  the governmemt, and the governement is US.
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kathyp
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2009, 12:39:21 PM »

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a homeowner's right to watch his grandchildren play in his yard is just as important as a beek's right to keep bees

a desire is not a right.  it is because we have come to believe desires are rights, we have lost so many real rights.

it is us against the government.  we were actually set up to have an adversarial relationship with our government.  if you read the writings of the founders, they admonished us to keep our government in check.  we have failed to do that.

a community may set up whatever laws it wishes, but for each law, a freedom is lost for someone.  those laws that restrict property use and activities,  restrict day to day freedoms the most.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
G3farms
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« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2009, 01:04:38 PM »

Thats one reason I could never live in the city or a subdivision. I need my elbow room. I don't understand why people move from the city to be in the country and then want to make it into a city again. But then again the country boy can't go to the city and expect to make it country.

they will finally work it out and the beek will end up loosing out, I would bet on that. 33 hives on a lot does sound a bit excessive though.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Dubhe
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« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2009, 01:20:29 PM »

It's called the "social contract."  We do give up some freedoms for greater protection.  I think any of us would object if a biker gang rode onto our property and set up camp.  Too bad their freedom to do so is restricted by laws created by government.

But back to beekeeping, my hat is off to Shawn, who obviously balanced his personal views with his professional need to provide fair and balanced service to all of his constituency.  That's rarely an easy thing to do.
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kathyp
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« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2009, 01:42:20 PM »

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I think any of us would object if a biker gang rode onto our property and set up camp.

they would not do that because i would protect my property rights.   grin

the social contract is why so many people in cities believe that government is the answer to all.  i just have not figured out if it is laziness, or stupidity..

and back to bees...let us know how it all turns out.  i doubt it's at an end.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
jojoroxx
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« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2009, 05:02:39 PM »

I cannot even believe this nonsense.

Colorado needs a lesson from left leaning Berkeley CA: The City Council is poised to transform all the city's parks and open spaces into habitats for bees. If the council approves the resolution, all future landscaping would be "pollinator-friendly" flowering native plants intended to attract bees, bats, butterflies, moths, hummingbirds, beetles and flies....
The public REALLY needs to be educated. Bees are " more likely to fly away or simply buzz loudly if they're irritated. Stinging is not their first choice.." 

I resent that every sort of  bee, wasp, hornet, yellow jacket and  the like, get lumped into one category that is to be KILLED or FEARED. What is up with that???   huh It is childish, and in my opinion, ignorant. Our food supply DEPENDS on these gentle, helpful creatures!!

 Somehow, perhaps with the good First Family's assistance, we can raise awareness and tolerance of these beautiful and crucial links in our food chain.  coolPower to the Bee Keepers and All the Bees!~~!
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