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Author Topic: Gasping for Air?  (Read 9157 times)
SgtMaj
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« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2009, 02:04:56 AM »

I don't think a dissenting view has been removed or edited here.

I wasn't trying to imply that any have, just that I think that some people may not be made to feel comfortable giving a dissenting view, and perhaps have learned that it's easier to keep friends if they keep quiet.

You just happen to be among a large group who do not see things the way you do.

Yes, a large non-political hobby group who all just happen to only express one political viewpoint... that should be the first sign that tips you off to groupthink going on.

Some 51 or 52% of the voters voted for him... am I to believe it is coincidence that none of them are beekeepers?  I don't think so. 

Some time ago, I remember reading some posts from John about how he was being worn out with member complaints about other members... I might be reading too much into that, or remembering it wrong, but given the other circumstances, that would fit.


By the way Jerry I'm with you on the dogs are just animals bit.  They are barely above cats... except chihuahuas which are barely above rodents. 

Angry mob with pitchforks and torches forms below this line.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 02:26:39 AM by SgtMaj » Logged
buzzbee
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« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2009, 05:59:20 AM »

A beekeeper friend once said three things that are three things to stay away from:
Politics
religion
And how to treat varroa mites.
  You seem disturbed by the fact that no one else has rallied behind you.There has not been an overwhelming majority of members that have responded to anything in this post.It has only been a few (11 out of 3900 members actually)that have responded period.So i don't think that group mob is exactly correct. Some people simply stay out of the coffee house because they don't want to read this stuff. Hence the creation of the coffee house for these kinds of conversations.
 But try to keep the language to language you would use at the dinner table.Disagree kindly,no name calling back and fourth,just stick to the discussion at hand,I know it will go off track at times.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2009, 06:20:46 AM »

You seem disturbed by the fact that no one else has rallied behind you.

Not behind me specifically, but any other viewpoints... There's more than just two sides to any issue... but it seems that only two views being expressed here.  On other forums, if 11 people posted, you'd have at least 8 different views.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2009, 06:36:12 AM »

As I said,some people prefer to stay from the coffee house. that is their perogative. And we try to keep these conversations limited to the coffee house and out of the bee talk forums for just that reason. Some people come to the forums to get away from all that,and wisely stay out of the coffee house.
 That is one of the reasons we have 3900 members and growing every day.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2009, 06:58:00 AM »

By the way Jerry I'm with you on the dogs are just animals bit.  They are barely above cats... except chihuahuas which are barely above rodents. 


So you would agree that if you saw your neighbor kicking the crap out of his dog everyday he should not be reported and hauled off to jail?

This is one of my Chihuahuas;


And this is the other;


You do know that Chihuahuas are said to be the smartest of dogs due to a larger brain to body ratio.

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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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SgtMaj
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« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2009, 07:10:51 AM »

Since many people seem to have a hard time understanding where I'm coming from, I drew a little diagram for you:



Edit: Well that turned out kinda crappy... does it have to be limited to 480 pixel width? 
Here's a direct link to it so you can read the writing: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/Gatbunton/Politics.png
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #66 on: April 29, 2009, 07:16:36 AM »

By the way Jerry I'm with you on the dogs are just animals bit.  They are barely above cats... except chihuahuas which are barely above rodents. 

So you would agree that if you saw your neighbor kicking the crap out of his dog everyday he should not be reported and hauled off to jail?

Well no I wouldn't agree... animal cruelty is still animal cruelty, and people who are purposely cruel to animals belong in prison.  Those people are the ones that end up committing violent crimes later on.  It's one thing to kill a deer while hunting or a rodent because it's a pest, it's quite another thing to torture an animal just for the fun of it.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2009, 09:55:20 AM »

I don't see anarchist on your chart.

(I went looking for the dog subject and couldn't find it. I either forgot the title of it or it was indeed deleted. Someone might remind me what happened to it. So I better not rekindle that one.  grin)

                                                
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2009, 10:04:08 AM »

Sorry.... Still off topic...


Oh, by the way. I believe that was a topic that generated more PMs for Beemaster.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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kathyp
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« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2009, 10:10:47 AM »

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,19017.0.html

think this was it jerrymac.  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2009, 10:40:50 AM »

That's it. So it wasn't one I started, it was one I hijacked  grin
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Irwin
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howdy all


« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2009, 11:21:21 AM »

Let the sleeping dog lay if you wake it up it may bite you  grin
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Fight organized crime!  Re-elect no one.
kathyp
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« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2009, 11:41:25 AM »

 jail
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 01:28:36 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
dragonfly
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« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2009, 12:14:34 PM »

I wasn't trying to imply that any have, just that I think that some people may not be made to feel comfortable giving a dissenting view, and perhaps have learned that it's easier to keep friends if they keep quiet.

**********

Yes, a large non-political hobby group who all just happen to only express one political viewpoint... that should be the first sign that tips you off to groupthink going on.

**********

Some 51 or 52% of the voters voted for him... am I to believe it is coincidence that none of them are beekeepers?  I don't think so. 


Some issues are more likely to produce strong yes or no opinions in people. The subject of this thread, for example, is the president, or is he no,t cutting spending. It's a pretty straight-forward issue. Regardless of how I feel about the president, it's a matter of numbers to me. Either the budget is increasing or it is decreasing. Other issues produce a wider range of opinions in a set group of people. I am a Libertarian with conservative leanings. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were a mistake imo, but ask me about fiscal policy, and I will typically agree with fiscal conservatives.

Groupthink going on here? I doubt it. It's just that a group of folks here happen to think along the same lines.

I know several beeks who voted for Obama, but observation for the past 8 years leads me to believe that beeks generally tend to be conservative at a margin of around 70% to 30%, with younger beeks being more liberal.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 01:30:45 PM by dragonfly » Logged
Scadsobees
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Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2009, 12:20:49 PM »

There is group think going on.  I asked my bees about the topic, and they pretty much all agreed with me.

There were quite a few though that didn't think that their Medicare and end-of-life care was sufficient, though grin
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Rick
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« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2009, 12:36:24 PM »

There is group think going on.  I asked my bees about the topic, and they pretty much all agreed with me.


 grin
The only thing my bees think is that they want me to leave them alone to live their own lives.Wink
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buzzbee
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« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2009, 05:49:47 PM »

hate to tell you,but Hannity is far from a communist. Is there any facts to this circle or is the placement based solely on opinion?
The latter I think.These guys say what a lot of people think,which is why they are successful and talk radio like Air America went down the tubes.
 Conservative talk has a far wider audience everyday than liberal talk radio.The only reason NPR is still on is that it is government funded.(Thats right funded by the people that dont want to listen to it.Go figure.)
 I think Obama should be set pretty close to the Communist line with wanting the federal government to take over privately held companies,take fronm the hard workers and give to those that do not want to work and have the government control the financial systems. He also wants to silence the conservative speak out there and the current Homeland security department considers returning war heroes as suspect for domestic terrorism.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2009, 08:50:28 PM »

hate to tell you,but Hannity is far from a communist.

Well, I disagree. 

Is there any facts to this circle or is the placement based solely on opinion? The latter I think.

I hope you think it's the latter... there are no facts to the line either... it's ALL opinion.

These guys say what a lot of people think,which is why they are successful and talk radio like Air America went down the tubes.  Conservative talk has a far wider audience everyday than liberal talk radio.The only reason NPR is still on is that it is government funded.(Thats right funded by the people that dont want to listen to it.Go figure.)

Hate to tell you this.. but even Limbaugh says he has more listeners who disagree with him than who agree with him.  Their job is to create a medium where advertizers are willing to pay a lot of money to rent time on that medium because there are a lot of listeners.  With radio talk show hosts, the most loyal listeners are generally the ones that disagree vehemently.  With talk show hosts, success doesn't hinge on how many people agree with you, only with how many people tune in to the show.  As far as I know, elected officials are the only group of people whose success relies completely upon what percentage of the population agree with them, and judging by that, it would seem that at the moment, more of the population agrees with democrats (although I tend to think it's more likely that they simply disagree with how far past the line of conservatism republicans have stepped). 

I think Obama should be set pretty close to the Communist line with wanting the federal government to take over privately held companies,take fronm the hard workers and give to those that do not want to work and have the government control the financial systems. He also wants to silence the conservative speak out there and the current Homeland security department considers returning war heroes as suspect for domestic terrorism.

Well, I think he belongs right where I put him (obviously, otherwise I wouldn't have put him there).
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dragonfly
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« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2009, 09:27:42 PM »

hate to tell you,but Hannity is far from a communist.

Well, I disagree. 


From American Heritage:
communism n. 1. a system characterized by the absence of social classes and by common ownership of production means.  2. a. The theory of revolutionary struggle toward communism. b. Socialism as exemplified in countries ruled by Communist parties.

What have you observed or heard from Sean Hannity that would give you the impression that he has communistic tendencies or beliefs? I find this puzzling. huh

To the contrary, some of the president's policies seem to be in line with communistic ideas, such as taking ownership of GM and some of the financial institutions. Of course, the argument could also be made that some of his tendencies could be construed as fascism, due to  merging of government with business, with the exception of a lack of nationalism portrayed by him.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2009, 11:50:19 PM »

From American Heritage:
communism n. 1. a system characterized by the absence of social classes and by common ownership of production means.  2. a. The theory of revolutionary struggle toward communism. b. Socialism as exemplified in countries ruled by Communist parties.

With all due respect, I have to disagree with those definitions... let me explain.

1. There is no communist country on earth that has an absense of social classes.  If anything, there is a greater disparity between the lifestyles of those in power, and those not in power.

2. a. using the word to define itself is not a useful definition.
b. Socialism and Communism are NOT the same. 


What have you observed or heard from Sean Hannity that would give you the impression that he has communistic tendencies or beliefs? I find this puzzling. huh

I believe your hangup is on the word communism itself.  If you take a look at the illustration I posted, you'll see that I put communism and fascism together because I don't see any meaningful difference between them.  So if I were to say to you that Hannity is close to a fascist, would you still be so puzzled?

I think my illustration sums up exactly why you're unable to relate here.  You most likely think of the political spectrum as the linear model where the farther to the extreme ends you go, the more polar opposite you are from the other extreme side.  I don't see things that way and that's probably why you're so puzzled by it.

To the contrary, some of the president's policies seem to be in line with communistic ideas, such as taking ownership of GM and some of the financial institutions. Of course, the argument could also be made that some of his tendencies could be construed as fascism, due to merging of government with business, with the exception of a lack of nationalism portrayed by him.

As they say, the devil's in the details, and the details are that the government is not taking permanent ownership stakes in these businesses, and the businesses had every right to refuse.  What happened is they were failing and about to go under, and the government offered to buy a stake in the company for far more than it was worth, thus stabilizing the companies temporarily.  Then if the companies survive this recession and can get back in the black, they have the option to buy back the stake the government bought. 

There is virtually no difference between what they did, and what you do when you buy stocks.  So does buying stocks make you a communist leader or a capitalist?

That being said, the use of those stakes as a means of regulating those businesses does make him much more liberal than libertarian.  Which is one reason why I placed him where I did on my diagram.
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