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Author Topic: Gasping for Air?  (Read 9036 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 10:10:05 AM »

you are like a little kid that says "he did it tooooo  Cry " .

the solution is not more taxes ON ANYONE.  the solution is less spending by all governments.  they are spending our money and they do not have a right to it.  they are making decisions outside of their constitutional (state or federal) mandates.  in the case of this AH that we elected president, he is piling on top, policies that will make this world more dangerous.  we can know this because it's been done before, and the results are always the same. 

i am not having this conversation with you to try to change your mind.  that would assume that you have the primary ingredient.

i do suggest that you broaden your base of knowledge.  get info from some place other than the wacky guardian.  study history...and not the sanitized and twisted versions taught in school, but the real facts of history which are still available.

please also look up the words "fact",  "opinion",  "theory" and "supposition" in Websters.  then apply those definitions to your arguments.

and while you are at it,  read your state and US constitution.  the US constitution is short but enlightening.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 11:07:23 AM »

True, he's not offering to cut whole departments, but neither was his opponent, nor was his opponent offering budget cuts of any kind.  In the end, all budget cuts affect my bottom line because ultimately as a taxpayer, it's my money they're taking for the budget.  If they cut the budget at all, it means less of my money will be taken in the future, and I like that.



I recommend reading "The Revolution. A Manifesto" by Ron Paul. He didn't have a snowball's chance, but his ideas are constitutional and more in line with a Libertarian than  Republican.
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kathyp
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2009, 11:53:44 AM »

there were a lot of things i liked about ron paul, but he lost me with his 1930's type isolationist ideas.  even so, there was probably more that i liked about him than about mccain.  problem with 3rd party candidates is that they usually end up taking just enough of the vote to give  you exactly what you didn't want. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2009, 12:29:44 PM »

there were a lot of things i liked about ron paul, but he lost me with his 1930's type isolationist ideas.   

His approach is not so much isolationist as it is to be "friends" with the rest of the world, and have business trade with other countries, but stay out of regional politics. Iow, his focus is on defense, not offense and to be friends, not saviors.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2009, 12:41:22 PM »

there were a lot of things i liked about ron paul, but he lost me with his 1930's type isolationist ideas.   

His approach is not so much isolationist as it is to be "friends" with the rest of the world, and have business trade with other countries, but stay out of regional politics. Iow, his focus is on defense, not offense and to be friends, not saviors.

I mostly had a problem with the way that he dressed like a lady...oh..wait...shoot, I got the wrong R. Paul again!!

 thunder
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Rick
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2009, 02:18:17 PM »

Quote
his focus is on defense, not offense and to be friends, not saviors.

isn't that what the carter years, and to some extent the clinton years, were about?
i don't have a problem with not being a savior.  i think our actions should be in our own best interest, or not at all. 

in all the years that i was in the military, we practice defense.  in the cold war days it was because if there was to be a nuke war, we were not going to be the ones to shoot first a cause the destruction of the world.  in hindsight, it was kind of a stupid way of thinking.  if the word is destroyed, who is going to care who shot first?
after the USSR broke up and the cold war was supposedly over, we started doing peace and love stuff, much of it with the UN.  we ended up with somalia, kosovo, and a hole in the side of the USS Cole.  then there was 9-11 and all that came after....
we have not really known what we wanted to do since the end of ww2.

at some point, we have to decide whether we are going to act in our own best interest, or whether we are going to try to be loved.  i suggest that we act in our interest, and a good first step would be to pop a couple of subs in the ports of somalia and blow them the rest of the way back to the stone age.  when they are behaving themselves, we can send the subs back with some food.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2009, 03:02:04 PM »


isn't that what the carter years, and to some extent the clinton years, were about?
i don't have a problem with not being a savior.  i think our actions should be in our own best interest, or not at all. 



I view the Carter years more as appeasement of our enemies and an extension of the "Great Society" idea socially. The Clinton years were, geopolitically, fairly non-political. The world was pretty much rockin along, singin a song. The idea of terrorist acts were in the background, because they had not occured, in any great degree, on US soil, with the exception of the Trade Center bombing. The reality of who the players were was not a major issue yet. Any offensive actions appeared to be primarily to take the spotlight off Clinton's escapades.


after the USSR broke up and the cold war was supposedly over, we started doing peace and love stuff, much of it with the UN. 

Huge mistake on our part. The UN, imo, is one of the primary obstacles to peaceful co-existence in the world. They are akin to a world social worker, never solving problems, but rather insisting that no one  ever settles an issue in any meaningful manner.


i suggest that we act in our interest, and a good first step would be to pop a couple of subs in the ports of somalia and blow them the rest of the way back to the stone age.  when they are behaving themselves, we can send the subs back with some food.


Why send them food?  When they can behave themselves in any intelligent and meaningful way, they can supply their own food. One of the problems that we have had a hand in creating is in taking care of nations rather than providing guidance in helping them help themselves.
 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 04:02:33 PM by dragonfly » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2009, 03:52:07 PM »

ok.  send them some seeds and a couple of tractors  wink  i don't  mind giving them a bit of a start.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2009, 03:59:52 PM »

 grin
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Seeds, tractors, and a few ag instructors from our colleges.Wink - oh, and few teenagers from America so they can learn to work also.Wink
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reinbeau
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« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2009, 04:25:27 PM »

Quote
... and yet, here he is finding ways to cut the budget without major impact... sure seems like an improvement to me.
Oh, yea, that's right, he's taxing those evil rich people to balance things out.  Great plan.  Why bother making money, if Barack is going to take it from you?

Right, and the alternative is to do what, tax the poor more?
Um, no, didn't say that at all.  Fix the tax code so there are fewer loopholes, heck, toss it out and go to the Fair Tax.  Or, as Kathy said, deal with the overspending in government first before you tackle anything on the tax code.  Oh, that's right, we need to spend more and more and more to fix everything - it's worked so well so far, hasn't it?

Bush was a spendaholic.  There are no fiscal conservatives in office that are having any effect.  That's what I want, fiscal responsibility.  So far I don't see any - on either side (that brings up the fact that there isn't one side or another anymore, they're all in it to grow government)
Quote
  Have you taken stock of our current economic situation? 
Oh, no, I haven't, I'm clueless, I'm sure you've figured that out  rolleyes  rolleyes.  I should just shut up and let Obama spend my children's, my grandchildren's, my great granchildren's....etc. future. 
Quote
We're in the crap we're in because Joe the Plumber doesn't have the money to pay the mortgage...
No, one facet of the problem are people who can't pay their mortgages - many of whom shouldn't have purchased a home in the first place. 
Quote
I fail to see how taxing him more would help.  But then again, I'm also not the financial "genius" that GWB who got us into this mess after inheriting a huge surplus and soaring economy is.
Ah, another Bush Hater who can't see past the fact that there are many, many players in this game, some of whom have D's after their names. 

Quote
Perhaps your plan is to just keep racking up more debt for someone else to pay sometime in the future...
a typical liberal tactic, presenting an argument that wasn't made and then arguing the nonpoint. Snip of the rest of no point.

Quote
I suggest that if you ever want your party to win another election
I suggest you don't make assumptions you have no clue about.  Who said what my party or what I believe in, other than you?  Snip more pointless ramblings and assumptions.

Quote
And I'm really sure that having to pay an extra percent or two of your earnings is really going to prevent anyone from going ahead and making an extra $250,000. rolleyes Oh yeah... they also get a break on their taxes already because SS stops at $97,500, everything over the top of that doesn't get taxed for Social Security.
Now, since you are all knowing and all seeing, just what is my income bracket?  Hmmm?  Since you haven't a clue, I'll give you a little hint - my husband is a truck driver for a local construction company and I teach Pilates.  Trust me, our income isn't anywhere near $250,000.  rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

Quote
I do think the fear of our new president is hillarious though.
It's great you are so easily amused - but after all, it's about feelings, isn't it?  We can't let fact and logic cloud our view of feeling good.

Quote
Riiighht... because all this fear mongering is REALLY about facts... LOOK OUT, THERE'S a BLACK MAN BEHIND YOU!  ROTFL!!!!   lau
And then you pull the race card.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with his race.  So, now, I am changing Godwin's Law.  Used to be Nazi would draw a thread to a close on the internet - now it's the race card.  You lose. And I'll roll my eyes a bit more for you.  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes
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kathyp
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« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2009, 04:48:38 PM »

i love the gwb squandered a soaring economy and huge surplus.  gwb made plenty of mistakes, but that was not among them.  the surplus was a projected surplus, but the projection was already in the crapper by '99 when the recession was looming.  gwb inherited a recession.  did he over spend?  did he do the TARP thing which i think was a huge mistake?  yup.  does that make it a good idea for obama to spend more than the total of all other presidents and initiate social programs that we will never be able to pay for?  don't think so...

as for wealth, please tell me what wealth, job, or opportunities are ever provided by poor people.  you may not like wealthy people, but every day you should add them to the thanks in your prayers for the taxes they pay and the industry they provided.  the more wealthy people there are, the more wealth making opportunity there is for all of us.

redistribution of wealth has never created more wealth.  it just makes all but those in charge equally poor.

why on earth are liberals so hung up on race?  the guy is an idiot.  he'd be just as big an idiot if he were white.  actually, he's not an idiot.  he's a dangerous ideologue, but that has nothing to do with race either.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2009, 04:55:12 PM »

Hummmm.... I thought he was half white. I'm always looking at things backwards I guess.
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« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2009, 10:14:47 PM »

Right, and the alternative is to do what, tax the poor more?
Um, no, didn't say that at all.  Fix the tax code so there are fewer loopholes, heck, toss it out and go to the Fair Tax.  Or, as Kathy said, deal with the overspending in government first before you tackle anything on the tax code.  Oh, that's right, we need to spend more and more and more to fix everything - it's worked so well so far, hasn't it?

Bush was a spendaholic.  There are no fiscal conservatives in office that are having any effect.  That's what I want, fiscal responsibility.  So far I don't see any - on either side (that brings up the fact that there isn't one side or another anymore, they're all in it to grow government)[/quote]

Quick, someone remind me what this thread is about?  Oh yeah, that's right, it's about how Obama is dealing with overspending by looking for ways to cut the budget.  Hello, McFly?

Oh, no, I haven't, I'm clueless, I'm sure you've figured that out  rolleyes  rolleyes.  I should just shut up and let Obama spend my children's, my grandchildren's, my great granchildren's....etc. future.

Again, this whole thread is about how he's cutting the budget and you're upset about that?  Yeah... clueless sounds about right here.

Ah, another Bush Hater who can't see past the fact that there are many, many players in this game, some of whom have D's after their names.

Yes, it's no mystery that I'm not a fan of Bush's, but now I'm really going to blow your mind... I'm a republican, and most of the time I tote the party line, with the exception of the last election with regard to the presidency.  Yes, some of the people who got us into this mess were democrats, and a huge chunk were also republicans. 

a typical liberal tactic, presenting an argument that wasn't made and then arguing the nonpoint. Snip of the rest of no point.

Except that it was the point of this thread... you should really go back and read everything first.

I suggest you don't make assumptions you have no clue about.  Who said what my party or what I believe in, other than you?  Snip more pointless ramblings and assumptions.

It's pretty obvious to anyone that's not so clueless that they didn't realize this thread was about how our current president is cutting the budget. 

Now, since you are all knowing and all seeing, just what is my income bracket?  Hmmm?  Since you haven't a clue, I'll give you a little hint - my husband is a truck driver for a local construction company and I teach Pilates.  Trust me, our income isn't anywhere near $250,000.  rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

Are you really trying to say that you're purposely not making more than $250,000 because of the taxes?  If so, then I can honestly say, you deserve whatever you make. cheesy

It's great you are so easily amused - but after all, it's about feelings, isn't it?  We can't let fact and logic cloud our view of feeling good.

I haven't seen much logic here... or facts for that matter.

And then you pull the race card.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with his race.  So, now, I am changing Godwin's Law.  Used to be Nazi would draw a thread to a close on the internet - now it's the race card.  You lose. And I'll roll my eyes a bit more for you.  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes

I might believe you were genuinely scared of his politics if you had displayed any of the same fear when Bush was wiping out our freedom and constitutional guarantees while increasing government spending and waste by over $1 Trillion per year... but you didn't, plus you expressed in this reply that you want the president to do exactly what he's been doing, so I must assume it's something else you're afraid of. 





Repetitive quoting and then repling is uncalled for. keep it to one quote per reply. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 10:20:28 AM by pdmattox » Logged
dragonfly
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« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2009, 10:46:28 PM »


It's pretty obvious to anyone that's not so clueless that they didn't realize this thread was about how our current president is cutting the budget. 


How is our president cutting the budget, besides  the defense dept, which is one of the very few constitutionally allowed roles of federal government?
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2009, 10:47:55 PM »

i love the gwb squandered a soaring economy and huge surplus.  gwb made plenty of mistakes, but that was not among them.  the surplus was a projected surplus, but the projection was already in the crapper by '99 when the recession was looming.  gwb inherited a recession.  did he over spend?  did he do the TARP thing which i think was a huge mistake?  yup.  does that make it a good idea for obama to spend more than the total of all other presidents and initiate social programs that we will never be able to pay for?  don't think so...

So you're joining the ranks of the people who are so clueless as to not know what this thread was about?  Go back and read the first post.  Obama is cutting spending... I realize you're not used to that after 8 years of Bush.  The economy was NOT in a recession when Bush took office... I'd wager you don't even know when this recession started, do you?

as for wealth, please tell me what wealth, job, or opportunities are ever provided by poor people.  you may not like wealthy people, but every day you should add them to the thanks in your prayers for the taxes they pay and the industry they provided.  the more wealthy people there are, the more wealth making opportunity there is for all of us.

Classic Limbaugh, and same mistake.  He likes to accuse dems of believing wealth is static, that the pie can't grow as he says... but that's exactly what he (and you) believe.  Wealth is created by workers.  You don't have to be rich to create wealth, you just have to be willing to do the work.  You also don't have to rely on the rich for a handout.  I'll let you ponder that for a while.


redistribution of wealth has never created more wealth.  it just makes all but those in charge equally poor.

So how would you pay for the $13 Trillion dollar debt that Bush racked up?  

why on earth are liberals so hung up on race?

I don't know, when you find one, why don't you ask him or her?

the guy is an idiot.  he'd be just as big an idiot if he were white.  actually, he's not an idiot.  he's a dangerous ideologue, but that has nothing to do with race either.

... and if you were also afraid of the last idiot ideologue president we had, I might believe that's why you're afraid of him.  

I suppose next you'll tell me that you're afraid of him because he's keeping bees at the WH.  rolleyes
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2009, 10:51:17 PM »

How is our president cutting the budget, besides  the defense dept, which is one of the very few constitutionally allowed roles of federal government?


Since no one seems to be able to go back and read the start of this thread, here it is again for you again:

Quote
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090425/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_spending

Obama: Give me ideas on tightening federal belt
By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – Think you can do better than your federal boss? President Barack Obama wants to know how.

Obama on Saturday announced a plan for federal workers to propose ways to improve their agencies' and departments' budgets. The president said employees' ideas would be key as his Cabinet officials try to cut millions from the budget and trim the deficit.

"After all, Americans across the country know that the best ideas often come from workers, not just management," Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address. "That's why we'll establish a process through which every government worker can submit their ideas for how their agency can save money and perform better. We'll put the suggestions that work into practice."

Obama's pitch comes at the end of a week focused on federal spending. On Friday, Democrats in Congress neared a deal on Obama's budget proposal and inched closer to passing a bill that would result in some $500 billion in deficits.

To confront that perception, Obama earlier in the week ordered officials to identify $100 million in savings to achieve over time — a relative pittance against the broader plan, his aides later acknowledged.

"Earlier this week, I held my first Cabinet meeting and sent a clear message: cut what doesn't work. Already, we've identified substantial savings," Obama said. "And in the days and weeks ahead, we will continue going through the budget line by line, and we'll identify more than 100 programs that will be cut or eliminated."

Obama said his administration would make $2 trillion in deficit reductions in the next decade, a pledge he has made repeatedly during his first three months in office. He also said he wants to re-evaluate priorities in the capital and urged Congress to pass legislation that would force lawmakers to pay for new policies and avoid large deficits. He also told agencies they could keep a part of the money they save.

"So much of our government was built to deal with different challenges from a different era," said Obama, noting that he took office facing a $1.3 billion budget deficit.

"Too often, the result is wasteful spending, bloated programs and inefficient results."


Any questions?  Am I going to have to remind people of this again on the next page?
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dragonfly
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« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2009, 11:09:20 PM »


So you're joining the ranks of the people who are so clueless as to not know what this thread was about?  Go back and read the first post.  Obama is cutting spending...


These are the figures I could find:

2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama) 2009 United States federal budget - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush) 2008 United States federal budget - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush) 2007 United States federal budget - $2.77 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush) 2006 United States federal budget - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush) 2005 United States federal budget - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush) 2004 United States federal budget - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush) 2003 United States federal budget - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush) 2002 United States federal budget - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush) 2001 United States federal budget - $1.9 trillion (submitted 2000 by President Clinton) 2000 United States federal budget - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)

Where are the cuts in the budget?


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« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2009, 11:23:15 PM »


Since no one seems to be able to go back and read the start of this thread, here it is again for you again:

Um...read the title, then the article.  I'm sensing it was started with just a little smidgen of sarcasm.  Imagine a person with emphesema who can't breathe getting basically useless tiny gasps of air.  At least that is how I'm seeing it.
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« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2009, 11:31:04 PM »

Um...read the title, then the article.  I'm sensing it was started with just a little smidgen of sarcasm.  Imagine a person with emphesema who can't breathe getting basically useless tiny gasps of air.  At least that is how I'm seeing it.

So you're saying that small cut opportunities should be passed over just because they are small?
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2009, 11:33:20 PM »


So you're joining the ranks of the people who are so clueless as to not know what this thread was about?  Go back and read the first post.  Obama is cutting spending...


These are the figures I could find:

2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama) 2009 United States federal budget - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush) 2008 United States federal budget - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush) 2007 United States federal budget - $2.77 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush) 2006 United States federal budget - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush) 2005 United States federal budget - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush) 2004 United States federal budget - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush) 2003 United States federal budget - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush) 2002 United States federal budget - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush) 2001 United States federal budget - $1.9 trillion (submitted 2000 by President Clinton) 2000 United States federal budget - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)

Where are the cuts in the budget?

Do I REALLY need to repost the first post of the thread for you again?  Reading... try it sometime.

This post just costed you a warning, rephrase your post as to not demean other members!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 10:25:36 AM by pdmattox » Logged
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