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Author Topic: Earth Day  (Read 4808 times)
1reb
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« on: April 22, 2009, 05:22:58 AM »

Everyone have a safe and happy Earth Day!!!!!!!


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SgtMaj
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 06:34:37 AM »

I'm not exactly sure how I would have an unsafe earth day... but I will, and back at ya!   grin
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Keith13
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 08:38:45 AM »

Love the earth go to a central place and create all kinds of trash that needs to be thrown away. I always get a kick out of the trash left behind at an Earth day celebration,irony is rich.

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Irwin
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 09:48:30 AM »

Love the earth go to a central place and create all kinds of trash that needs to be thrown away. I always get a kick out of the trash left behind at an Earth day celebration,irony is rich.

Keith
You beat me to that one Keith
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 10:03:01 AM »

I know a lot of people will get me for this, but I don't believe in Earth day since it has been hijacked by the left-wing nut jobs that would like nothing better than all of humanity to disappear into oblivion.  But no the less have a nice day everyone
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 02:43:16 AM »

I know a lot of people will get me for this, but I don't believe in Earth day since it has been hijacked by the left-wing nut jobs that would like nothing better than all of humanity to disappear into oblivion.  But no the less have a nice day everyone


Not all humanity.  They just realize that the current human population is beyond what the planet is capable of sustaining over the long term.  So it's either reduce now in humane ways, such as conservation of resources, or reducing the population growth rate through programs like improving education in poor regions of the world... otherwise our species will face the same problem every other species that has overpopulated has faced... that being a rapid decline in population the hard way (usually by starvation, occasionally by pollution of their own environment).  Either way, balance will be restored, it always is.  The only question is what kind of standard of living we want humanity to have while balance is restored.  Why some people assume that it's better to let nature take it's course with the human race is beyond my understanding.  Pure stupidity I guess.  I assume these people make the assumption that just because an overpopulation is sustainable in the short run, that it must be sustainable in the long-run. 
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 01:10:13 AM »

I awoke this morning and 1st thing I checked, the Earth was still there.  I then went about my chores feeding animals, building chicken houses, and the dreaded drudgery or repetition call every day chores.  Earth Day was a success, but it leaves me with the question: Will the Earth still be there tomorrow?    catch chick
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 06:15:04 AM »

I awoke this morning and 1st thing I checked, the Earth was still there.  I then went about my chores feeding animals, building chicken houses, and the dreaded drudgery or repetition call every day chores.  Earth Day was a success, but it leaves me with the question: Will the Earth still be there tomorrow?    catch chick

So you think it should be renamed people day, just so there's no confusion about which one might not be here some day?
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 09:21:13 AM »

You all do understand that if it is indeed the CO2 and other things that people are pumping into the atmosphere it is already too late? Everything would have to stop producing CO2 in order for the cooling down to start in a couple of years, Other wise it will just keep warming up until the breaking point.

And if it is a natural cycle, well there is nothing you can do to stop it.
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 10:27:45 AM »

sarg, i don't know how old you are.  don't want to insult your age or your youth  grin

the world was supposed to have ended by  now according to those first earth day folks.  instead, the US at least is cleaner, the standard of living has gone up in most of the world, life expectancy is longer, and we have more toys!  we did not enter a new ice age.  we did not all starve.  we are not all living in grass huts rubbing sticks together.

do we need to be good stewards of what we have?  yes.  do we need to support the "green agenda" which at it's core is the desire for the destruction of the human race (except for a few worthy folks)?  i think not.
this movement is, and always has been, a money maker that depends on the emotional reaction of the very uninformed.  it destroys industry and punishes progress.  it keeps those in 3rd world countries from exploiting their own resources for profit and progress.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 08:40:39 AM »

You all do understand that if it is indeed the CO2 and other things that people are pumping into the atmosphere it is already too late? Everything would have to stop producing CO2 in order for the cooling down to start in a couple of years, Other wise it will just keep warming up until the breaking point.

And if it is a natural cycle, well there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Yup.  Even if it's not too late, it would be impossible to convince enough people to make enough changes to stop it.  But, if enough people make just a few changes, we can put at least a little bit more time between now and then.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 08:46:55 AM »

sarg, i don't know how old you are.  don't want to insult your age or your youth  grin

the world was supposed to have ended by  now according to those first earth day folks.  instead, the US at least is cleaner, the standard of living has gone up in most of the world, life expectancy is longer, and we have more toys!  we did not enter a new ice age.  we did not all starve.  we are not all living in grass huts rubbing sticks together.

do we need to be good stewards of what we have?  yes.  do we need to support the "green agenda" which at it's core is the desire for the destruction of the human race (except for a few worthy folks)?  i think not.
this movement is, and always has been, a money maker that depends on the emotional reaction of the very uninformed.  it destroys industry and punishes progress.  it keeps those in 3rd world countries from exploiting their own resources for profit and progress.

I of course disagree with you almost completely, but I'm wise enough to know that absolutely nothing I could ever say would change your mind one bit about it unless I changed my name to Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, and that's ok.  I will also add that if what a person does to try to help the environment doesn't also save them money, then they are doing it wrong. 
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 10:24:59 AM »

You all do understand that if it is indeed the CO2 and other things that people are pumping into the atmosphere it is already too late? Everything would have to stop producing CO2 in order for the cooling down to start in a couple of years, Other wise it will just keep warming up until the breaking point.

And if it is a natural cycle, well there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Yup.  Even if it's not too late, it would be impossible to convince enough people to make enough changes to stop it.  But, if enough people make just a few changes, we can put at least a little bit more time between now and then.

That is what I am getting at. There is no slowing it down now. It is past that point. It has hit terminal velocity with enough extra to keep it going for a while. There would have to be a massive dissipation of the Global Warming Gasses (GWG) NOW to even slow it down a wee bit in the next ten years. But all the plans are to reduce the GWG output by only a small percent in the next 50 years.  rolleyes
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 10:42:46 AM »

it is convenient to dismiss conservative views by believing that we are sycophants of conservative talk radio.  all the more amusing when it comes from people who suck down and regurgitate talking points based on bad science.

if liberals ever engaged their brains before they engaged their emotions, they would find liberalism impossible to support.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 12:20:45 PM »

it is convenient to dismiss conservative views by believing that we are sycophants of conservative talk radio.  all the more amusing when it comes from people who suck down and regurgitate talking points based on bad science.

if liberals ever engaged their brains before they engaged their emotions, they would find liberalism impossible to support.

I am a conservative.  It's sad that you don't know the difference between a conservative and a neocon, however, it reinforces my belief that you listen and believe whichever far right-wing neocon talk show hosts you listen to. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 12:27:59 PM »

give me the definition of neo-con.  and conservative while you are at it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2009, 12:43:30 PM »

That is what I am getting at. There is no slowing it down now. It is past that point. It has hit terminal velocity with enough extra to keep it going for a while. There would have to be a massive dissipation of the Global Warming Gasses (GWG) NOW to even slow it down a wee bit in the next ten years. But all the plans are to reduce the GWG output by only a small percent in the next 50 years.  rolleyes

You'll get no arguement about that from me.  But every bit does make an impact, even if it is a fraction of a milisecond longer in difference, it's still a difference, and it does add up if enough people make little changes.  But, besides all that... Global Warming isn't even my biggest environmental concern.  Toxic pollution is a far more pressing issue to me than global warming is anyway.

I grew up fishing, and when I was a kid, there wasn't any fish from any water around that was too polluted to eat.  But today, there's only one lake left near me that's safe to consume any fish from at all.  Mercury from the coal power plants has so polluted every other waterway around here that it's no longer safe to eat any of the fish from them, not even the bluegill.  I would like to take my son fishing when he's old enough, and I would like to be able to fry up the first fish he catches.  But by the time he's old enough to take fishing, that might not even be an option.  That might not be a problem for someone like Rush who can just fly to some lake in a remote part of the world that hasn't yet been polluted, but it's a big problem for anyone that can't afford to jet off to another part of the world whenever they want to go fishing.

Then there's the other big one for me... pesticides and herbicides.  They are wiping out not only the pests, but our bees.  While on the one hand, the fewer the bees, the more valuable my bees become, but on the other hand, I could just as easily suffer losses from them.  Also the loss of pollinators is making everyone's food more expensive.  That's not even mentioning their effect on our health.  They aren't much better for us than the pests they kill, and many of them are absorbed into the food being grown, and/or don't get washed off.  While I do understand the farmer's need to maximize yield, I also think there are much better ways to do that than by killing our bees and giving us a mouthful of toxic chemicals.  

Of course, saving money isn't a bad cause either.  Last year we decided to spend an extra $30 a month on home improvements and whatnot that would save us money on our electric or water/sewage bills.  Last month I saved $101.03 over last year on the electric bill, and $5 on the water/sewage bills.  The month before that we saved roughly $97 over that month's bill the previous year.  Even if I completely stopped putting anything else into it, we'd continue saving a hundred bucks a month, and I have to say, the house is a lot more comfortable too.  Some people might have you believe that environmentalism is all about buying carbon credits... but that's like saying that just because there are a few back alley cosmetic surgeons in the world, that all doctors must be crackpots that will kill you.  No group of people is immune from having scammers, and as people we have to use our brains and not be foolish anytime, but especially where money is involved.  This last year while people were losing their savings, I was busy investing in things that would save me money and I'm already realizing a threefold return on my investments.  I really recommend going the same route.  It's better for the pocketbook, it's better for my standard of living, and it's better for the environment.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 01:25:01 PM by SgtMaj » Logged
SgtMaj
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2009, 12:54:06 PM »

give me the definition of neo-con.  and conservative while you are at it.

How about I give you a couple of examples... Reagan was a conservative while GW Bush is a neocon... I already know that you're going to swear up and down that they're both conservative, but GW wasn't conservative, and it's the fact that much of the republican leadership today also doesn't know the difference that has eroded a good deal of their support.

Anyway, like I said before, nothing I could ever say or show you would ever change your mind about anything... so this is really rather pointless.
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2009, 01:52:16 PM »

 no, i agree with you.  that is an example, but not a definition.

neocons are defense hawks and social liberals.  the term was originally applied to converts from the dems, who wanted stronger defense and became republicans.  many were jewish and also wanted continued strong support of israel.  because of this, the term for a time was an underhanded anti-semitic label applied by the left.  in no way do i fit into the neocon slot.

no conservative can support this global warming crap.  conservatives think and do their own homework.  the "science" that supports global warming is junk science.  in fact, those who have done real research believe that we have entered a period of cooling that has the potential to be far more damaging than any bit of warming might have been.  they believe that this is due primarily to sun activity, not human activity.

any time you see governments and the UN jumping on something,  legislating in ways that stifle productivity, and taking money from the people, you know that the cause is suspect.

when someone goes off on a global warming tangent, i picture some hunter gatherer sitting on the edge of the north american glacier.  suddenly realizing that the glacier is receding he finds his fellow hunter gatherers and convinces them to put out their fires, lest the pollution cause canada to be exposed to the elements, and rivers rise.  i'd like not to go back to eating my meat raw because of junk science.

it is never pointless to have a conversation.  only people who are lazy and do not want to do the research, avoid the debate.  may i suggest that before you label people, you know the meaning of the labels and know the people to whom you are applying the labels?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2009, 03:48:37 PM »

Actually, the science behind it is quite solid.  There's really no doubt that certain gasses do retain more heat than others.  There is also no doubt that current atmospheric levels of those gasses is higher today than they were in the past, or in fact, at any time in the atmospheric record that we've got.  There is also no doubt that global mean temperatures have been rising to the point where we can see each decade being hotter than the previous.  You don't seem to be disputing those facts however... you're just assuming that it won't matter because the sun will magically cool off to save us which is junk science since our entire solar record is in length, less than 1% of our atmospheric record, and because we're actually supposed to be entering the 11 year solar maximum cycle.  Using anecdotal (at best) evidence that people staring at the sun during the L.I.A. as proof that all the imperical evidence gathered with today's instruments won't matter sounds like the very definition of junk science to me.

PS - Not to insult you or anything, but I do consider you a neocon, even if you don't consider yourself to be one.  GW didn't consider himself a neocon either, and I'm not so sure he was prior to 9/11, but he certainly was after that (I personally think he lost his mind due to that event). 

Anyway, if 100% of the climatologists, and 90some-odd % of all scientists aren't going to convince you, neither am I... and you're certainly not very convincing to me, so this can only go downhill.  Besides, I really don't even care all that much about global warming.  I have other reasons for being an environmentalist which I outlined in my response to Jerrymac.  Global warming is an issue that will affect my son and his children's generation much more than mine.  There are far too many much more pressing issues affecting us now to get so caught up with something that isn't all that bad right now.  So let's just agree to disagree.  You can go on thinking I am wrong, and I will go on thinking you're wrong and we'll both have avoided a pointless arguement and waste of time.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 04:22:10 PM by SgtMaj » Logged
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