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Author Topic: Going to help with cutout tomorrow!!!!  (Read 2924 times)
annette
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« on: April 17, 2009, 09:59:56 PM »

Well the day has arrived. We take the bees out of the shed.

I am going to Sutter Creek to meet up with 3 other beekeepers. One of the beeks is a teacher of beekeeping at the Waldorf School in San Francisco and he is the man who will show and teach us.

The other 2 beeks are like me, just wanting to learn something new and help

I bought a disposable camera so I do not have to worry about ruining my good camera. Hopefully I can get lots of photos, but I know already the space we are going to work in is very cramped.

Wish me luck.

Annette
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JP
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 10:02:11 PM »

Good luck Annette! Don't forget to bring your lucky umbrella.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

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annette
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 10:13:46 PM »

The umbrella will stay at home and guard the other hives. Don't want a sticky umbrella after all grin grin
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JP
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 10:16:42 PM »

Alright then, but if you don't find the queen, you'll know why.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
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My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 10:19:00 PM »

 shocked shocked
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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 10:27:43 PM »



 shocked shocked shocked


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
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My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 10:28:36 PM »

good luck and HAVE FUN!!!!!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 10:34:03 PM »

Good Luck Annette!!!!!!!
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RayMarler
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2009, 12:42:28 AM »

Best of luck Annette, hope you have lots of fun and learning! It is forecast to be the best of weather, I think it'll go smooth for you all.

I don't blame ya, I'd leave my red umbrella at home also, if I had one!
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JP
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2009, 03:22:53 AM »

Ray, we should all be so lucky to have a magic red umbrella like Annette's!


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2009, 12:26:34 AM »

Well the cutout is complete.  I am still recovering from this experience as it was an extremely exhausting day for me. We started at 11:30 and got done around 3:00.  There were 6 people there total and at first I thought it would be way to many people, but actually it was a good thing because we all had jobs to do.

I learned how to place the rubberbands into the frames, I learned how to cut the combs very carefully with a knife to cause the least amount of injury to the bees. This beekeeper was supposed to bring a beevac, but did not and it made things much harder. After he would cut out the comb and hand it to us, we would place the combs into a designated box. If it had honey in it, then into the honey box. If it was empty comb, then into another box.

One thing he did that I did not agree with, he had me rubberbanding some of the honey combs into the frames and this was hard, sticky work. The combs were so hard to get into the frames. He wanted lots of the honey placed in the supers. I thought this was ridiculous.

The other problem was there was no brood whatsoever and he thought this hive might be queenless. This hive swarmed about 2 weeks ago (Ray got this swarm with me)and there was evidence of many empty queen cells in the wall. But we never did see any brood or eggs anywhere in that wall. I was wondering if perhaps there might be a virgin queen or a queen on a mating flight?Huh
So basically the super was filled with just honey and Keith the main beek, just dumped as many bees into the super as he could and cleaned out all the wax from the wall. That is how we left the place.  There were so many bees just flying around and laying all over the ground. I felt so bad for them. When we left I felt like something had been left undone. You know a nagging feeling.

Seemed like we should have waited until evening to get most of the foragers.

I don't know much about cutouts, but this just felt unfinished to me.  Perhaps if we had the beevac, then we  just would have gotten all the bees into it. It would have made things easier to work and not so many bees being killed.I did learn a lot and now I know what to do. How to rubberband the frames, how to cut the wax out gently. But also without knowing if there was a queen and there did not seem to be a queen, this left things feeling unfinished also.
 
I will be posting photos later on when I get them developed. I took a cheap disposable camera and have to get the photos onto a CD. Also one other guy took lots of photos and promised to send them to me also.


I am glad I went, but not sure if this is my cup of tea. Perhaps in an emergency I would know what to do now,but very hard work.



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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009, 12:35:25 AM »

It sounds like y'all did not get a queen, there may have been a virgin in the hive but who knows.

If it was queenless and the virgin is still there somehow the colony could start over if enough bees were left behind.

I know I'm probably not getting the entire gist of what went down here but if it were me doing the removal I would have left at dark with the vast majority of the bees from this hive.

...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2009, 12:48:38 AM »

It was just 3 -1/2 hours of slowly cutting the wax combs from the wall to not injure the bees, and then the guy used a brush to sweep as many bees into a box as he could and then dumped these bees into the super where all the honey was. This super he took with him and all the boxes of honey and empty wax combs.

I felt that the wall was left unfinished. I felt there were to many bees still flying all around and so many small clusters of bees just all over the place when we left.

I am sure the bees will return to that spot again.

 
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RayMarler
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2009, 01:07:31 AM »

In my own opinion, the boxes of banded in frames should have been left in place until after dark, or at least up until right at dark before removing. Also, I've seen this wall the bees were in, it would have been very considerate to put the wall back together and plugging all entry holes before leaving with the bees, as it would only have entailed nailing the piece of plywood back up in place. That is assuming the plywood was removed in a manner that did not destroy it, as it should have been. Just my thoughts, perhaps I have no room to speak as I could not bee there myself to do the cuttout.
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annette
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2009, 01:21:02 AM »

I thought so also. But when I asked  Keith if he was going to leave it that way,he said yes. He said the wall should be left open or else the bees will go back in.


He said he spoke to the homeowner about it.

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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2009, 01:47:53 AM »

can't wait for the pictures.  you are ready to do your own now?  grin  glad you went.  don't feel bad about the leftover bees.  it's nice to be able to wait, but sometimes you can't.  distance and stuff.....

i don't do the putting back together, but that's the agreement i have with the owner before hand.  out-buildings are bee magnets.  i have done several that have had multiple hives in them over the years.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2009, 01:57:36 AM »

There's a hard way and an easy way to do cutouts, sounds like you had a hard way adventure.

Rubberbanding is rough on the comb, the bees, and the handler when it is compared to using a cutout frame like the swarmframe.htm at beesource or a variation thereof.

Doing a cutout when the queen was known to swarm two weeks ago almost guarantees the death of the colony. There's no brood, the queen may have mated, but the brood comb is almost certainly empty until another week goes past. The probability of a successful removal is much higher after four weeks because even if you miss the queen, there are eggs to ensure the genetics can be kept.

Cutouts should either finish at the end of the day, so foragers can be gathered, or like others have said, the box should have been left behind on the off chance that there was a queen in the box. If not  in the box, the foragers would have clustered in the old space and been easy to retrieve.

> He wanted lots of the honey placed in the supers.
> I thought this was ridiculous.

I don't see the point either. Combs of beebread and honey can be useful, but honey can go in a bucket.

Look on it as reverse-learning, you now know what does not make sense and what not to do if you try another.

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greenismycolor
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2009, 08:36:43 AM »

Sorry for your feeling Annette. But I am glad you went and the experience and confidence you came away with. Congratulations are in order for the effort!!! Salute! Best wishes on the next one!
Patti
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Natalie
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2009, 10:30:22 AM »

Annette, I am sorry it did not go as well as you had hoped.
 As someone else said it though, all you can do now is use it as a learning experience  and you will know what you do not want to happen on your next one.
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wadehump
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2009, 11:34:48 AM »

i do not have a beevac, so what i do is use as little smoke as possible.start on one side of the hive cut out 1 or 2 of the combs ,use a brush and sweep all of the bees into my box then rubber band the comb in less bees die this way , then start on the other side useing the same method working to the center, i feel less smoke queen does not get runny, i also place 2 rubber bands on each side of the frames before i start cutting.most of the honey goes into a bucket. have done a total of 4 cutouts the first was a mess and did not get the queen,last 3 including one on saturday i got the queen and did not kill alot of the bees.
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