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Author Topic: Newb question? Making Syrup?  (Read 2026 times)
RyanB
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« on: April 06, 2009, 11:04:01 AM »

Hello all.  I've read on how to make fondant.  However what about Syrup?  When someone says to use a 1:1, I assume that is 1 cup sugar to 1 cup water.  Do you bring this to a slow boil and then add the sugar?  Give it a few minutes boiling and then cool for use?
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 11:11:42 AM »

I'm sure there's more than one way to do it, but I just use hot water,  not boiling, and mix it with the sugar. I mix half of what's needed as hot water, then mix, then add the rest as cold. I then let the syrup sit for 24 hours before using, helps it mix evenly and stay mixed.
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 11:17:37 AM »

I'm with Ray,  no need to heat/boil for 1:1    Hot tap water works fine.   When you get to high ratios of sugar,  you may need to heat the syrup to get the sugar to dissolve.

When you first mix it, it may be cloudy white from air mixed in (especially when using straight from the tap) and a little difficult to see if all the sugar has dissolved.  Let it sit and the syrup will clear (any non-dissolved sugar will settle to the bottom).
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 11:28:21 AM »

same here, but i put a little lemongrass oil in, or lavender.  it seems to help keep the sugar from molding as quickly....not that it's a problem at this time of the year!
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RyanB
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 12:54:56 PM »

Thank you fr the suggestions! This is the 1st time I have seen a suggestion of lemongrass oil in the syrup. interesting. And that will help with mold?  Thanks!
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Currently Fermenting:

Cherry Melomel - 1Gal
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Recently Finished:
Sack Mead - 1Gal, Very Good!
Braggot - 1Gal, Very popular!
Mead Cyser - 1Gal, Wifes Fav!
JAO - 1Gal, Nice, A bit too sweet.
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 01:15:00 PM »

Just be careful about putting oil in syrup without using an emulsifier such as lecithin.   We all know oil and water don't mix and you will end up with pools of oil at the end and it can kill bees/brood.
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 02:14:35 PM »

in addition to water and sugar, we were advised (in a beekeeping class) to first make 2 cups of tea using dandelion root and chamomile tea.  I use the chamomile mint tea (has a touch of spearmint) in it.  We also do boil the water first with thyme leaves thrown in (helps to prevent mites).  Then I stir in the sugar until it is dissolved and then put the 2 cups of herbal tea in. 
Bees love it.
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 02:43:36 PM »

Sugar syrup can be made up into three different strengths, and you use different strengths for different purposes and at different times of the year, as follows:

1:2 - 1 pound of sugar dissolved in 2 pints of water is primarily used as a egg laying stimulant for the queen in late winter and early spring
 
1:1 - 1 pound of sugar dissolved in 1 pint of water is primarily used as an artificial nectar to get bees to build comb and feed brood larvae in spring and summer
 
2:1 - 2 pounds of sugar dissolved in 1 pint of water is a winter feed substituting for honey in the fall or early winter


Ryan, you should use the 1:1 formula for your syrup spray and once you install your package. 

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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 02:53:29 PM »

We also do boil the water first with thyme leaves thrown in (helps to prevent mites). 
Any studies indicating this, or is it purely anecdotal?  Harp has a lot of things that sound oh so natural and purportedly "good" for bees.  I've been around a long time and have seen (and tried) a multitude of "natural" ingredients that "help" with varroa, but have found nothing that is consistent for long term control.   The only natural remedy for sustained control thing that I have found is acclimated feral stock. 

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Bees love it.

Not trying to be cynical,  but dogs love antifreeze too.

I just have a hard time when people feed all kinds of stuff to bees without knowing what it really does to them, all because someone somewhere says it helps.
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2009, 05:33:01 PM »

When I make 1:1 syrup, I make a gallon at a time.  I take a gallon glass jug and a large funnel.  I pour a 5 pound bag of sugar into the jug and then pour hot water until it is about 3/4 full.  Then cap and shake the bottle to dissolve most of the sugar.  Finally, I add the rest of the water and shake it around a bit more. Make it the day before you need it.  I don't use meds or oils in the feed.

Bob
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2009, 05:53:26 PM »

Robo,
one question will be answered 100 ways....
There has been research conducted regarding natural mite control.  I try to keep the bees as organic as possible and based on information received within our bee group, the use of thyme to help control mites is well received.  All depends on who you want to believe and your own experience.  When using bee tea, I only use herbal tea of plants that grow naturally in my location so I'm not introducing anything they will not find on their own.

Lots of different research out there, lots of opinions.  Here's one website that talks about the use of thyme as a mite preventive.  I think each person just needs to use what they feel works best for them and their hives.

http://www.kanawhavalleybeekeepers.com/varroa.htm
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2009, 07:05:30 PM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#ratios
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 07:07:11 PM »

I try to keep the bees as organic as possible and based on information received within our bee group, the use of thyme to help control mites is well received.
There is a big difference in efficacy of thyme leave and thyme oil as mentioned in the link you provided. In the early 90s essential oils was a big fad and THE answer for natural control.  Does it work? Perhaps, but not consistently enough to be the answer for everyone. Maybe there are specific conditions that are protocol dependent that most beeks can't consistently repeat, I don't know.  But it is also well known, if beeks where truthful, that a lot of bees have been lost to essential oils treatment.   At the time it was almost sacrilegious to question the effectiveness of essential oils.  There is also the placebo or desire for it to work that muddies ones perceived results. So many beeks find other excuses like weather to blame their losses on.

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When using bee tea, I only use herbal tea of plants that grow naturally in my location so I'm not introducing anything they will not find on their own.
That is an admiral approach and sounds reasonable.  Apples and cherries grow naturally and abundantly here as well.  Their seeds and pits contain cyanide and I wouldn't consider making tea out of them to feed with.


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All depends on who you want to believe and your own experience.  I think each person just needs to use what they feel works best for them and their hives.

I couldn't agree more and I'm not trying to give you a hard time. The key is own experience.  Unfortunately we have a lot of new beekeepers here (read as no experience) who are dying to find that "organic" (read as harmless, which is another misnomer rolleyes)  treatment and are ready to jump on anything they can find.  So when someone just throws out a statement like "helps to prevent mites" I feel obligated to have this discussion.

If it works for you than I am happy for you and hope you continue to have success.  I'll be the first to admit that I don't have THE answer, but I can tell you that my experience has been I have more folks who practice "natural/organic" treatments looking to buy replacement bees due to weather/winter losses than those that don't. Go figure I dunno

rob...
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 11:44:40 PM »

For simple syrup the guide for making i gallon of 1:1 syrup is 5 lbs or sugar and add hot water until full, stir and put on lid.  In actuality the 5lbs of sugar had enough displacement so that only 5 pints of water can be added to the gallon container so the sugar displaces 3 pints. 

I make it a gallon at a time ( have several 1 gallon feeders) and put it on the hives still warm.  The bees really lap it up when its warm.

I also add 1 tablesoopn of cider vinegar to the mix to change the acidity, it acts as a gut wash and helps against various viruses.  Since I started doing the cider vinegar to the syrup I haven't had a case of nosema.  This it not a scientific proof thing just incidental.
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RyanB
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 04:36:30 PM »

Thank you all for the wonderfull info!  I also saw this on another forum...

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. . . 1 to 1 sugar syrup is what you will need so the package can build comb and start brood build up before flowers appear. My bees will be here the 11th of April, last year it was the 18. Had to do it the same way and will repeat again this year. It will be a week before the queen starts to lay in some new cells. And 21 days after that before the first new workers start working. Then everyday after more hatching will have the colony on the up swing for the big bloom of spring.

Quart of water is roughly 2lbs

2 and 1/2 qts water
5lbs sugar
2 and 1/2 tps of fresh lemon juice

Bring water to boil, add sugar and lemon juice. Bring to boil again, 20 minutes later remove and let cool. Will last up to 6 months on shelf, dont worry the bees will eat all that and more. I suggest buying only cane sugar and not beet because of neonictonoids used to protect beet seeds. And buy at least 10 lb bags or bigger to save money and time. I use clean milk jugs to bottle and make at least a 10lb bag of sugar syrup at one time. 

Now, I installed my packages yesterday and I am using a small mason jar.  I poured in 1cup of hot water to 1 cup of sugar. Thats it.  Sounds like I have the ratio off though.  Sad
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Currently Fermenting:

Cherry Melomel - 1Gal
Pear Melomel - 1Gal
White Pyment - 1Gal
Root Beer Mead - 1Gal
Mead Cyser - 5Gal

Recently Finished:
Sack Mead - 1Gal, Very Good!
Braggot - 1Gal, Very popular!
Mead Cyser - 1Gal, Wifes Fav!
JAO - 1Gal, Nice, A bit too sweet.
iddee
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2009, 04:48:43 PM »

1 cup of hot water to 1 cup of sugar is the correct ratio, only I put 20 lb. sugar to 2 1/2 gallon water and the bees take it in 3 days. No waste here. I use tap water and don't add heat.

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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2009, 05:13:32 PM »

It's a little confusing when mixing measures, but if I understand correctly a pound of granulated sugar averages 2 cups plus a few tablespoons and 2 cups equals 1 pint so 1 cup sugar to 1 cup water should be about right for 1:1. Math is not my strong suit, so please correct me if I missed smiley
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2009, 06:31:24 PM »

It doesn't have to be an exact science.  1cup sugar to 1cup water is close enough.  In fact, I don't even measure, I just do it by eye.
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2009, 11:06:15 PM »

How long can you keep the syrup for if you make more than you need at one time and how does it need to be stored?

Also, I know you have to feed the packages as soon as you get them and then until the flow is on, I am assuming you need to do the same thing for early nucs even though they have some honey and pollen frames, right or wrong.

I am getting nucs this weekend, how many weeks do you guesstimate I would need to feed for?
These nucs are from fall splits.
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 12:00:43 AM »

Kinda depends on if 1:1 is by weight or volumn.
Using a cup of each is going to give you a 1:1 by volumn and 1 lb sugar to 1 pint of water will give you 1:1 by weight. I used by weight and bees seem to be liking it.
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2009, 11:54:19 PM »

Kinda depends on if 1:1 is by weight or volumn.
Using a cup of each is going to give you a 1:1 by volumn and 1 lb sugar to 1 pint of water will give you 1:1 by weight. I used by weight and bees seem to be liking it.

My Grandmother used to say: "A pint's a pound the world around."  Meaning that in the case of most cooking ingredients (ie Sugar & Water) the volume and weight are the same.  A pint of water will weigh 1 lb.  1 lb of sugar will fill a pint jar.  Neat, Huh?
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