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Author Topic: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?  (Read 4383 times)

Offline JP

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 10:27:32 AM »
I use starter strips in the brood chamber, waxed plasticell in my honey supers. I've always heard that bees will build different size cells to suit their needs if able to, this has always made the most sense to me.

My hives are from cut-outs and swarms.


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Offline suprstakr

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 10:31:42 AM »
I bought them at 5 dollars each and sold them at 1 dollar . Anny time with no production I have no time for . My bees are on natural comb , love it . Less honey more wax ,candless sell just as well , gives me a hobby for the winter :)

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 10:53:08 AM »
Robo,
I'm not basing anything on Berry, although it's nice to see a controlled study and someone finding out some of the things I have said for years.

I did not find, and have never said that once bees are on smallcell, it's the answer to mites. I have always, as well as many others, suggested that perhaps other factors of survivability based on changing over to clean comb, selecting from survivors after losing bees through the first couple years of regression, as well as other items, may be at play.

Through my own testing, I can not claim or suggest to others that smallcell is the answer to mites. I have just as many problems with mites in all my hives as one type or another. That being said, all my hives are on non-treated survivor stock and I have good success from that fact alone.

I do much testing, and just participate in research when I can. I just got back the first part of a research study being conducted through Penn State and a laboratory research team out of Belgium.

Two hives randomly tested, (Random meaning a yard that I did not have registered, and the inspector through a so-called "friend" just happened to "find" the yard and conducted the research without me being present...which has me steamed!)

Anyways, the first stage of the results were forwarded to me. In two random colonies selected, this is what they found... (conducted in late September)

Hive one... v-mites per 100___0.92 found, with a study average of 11.4 per 100 bees
                   nosema spores____0.52 million, with a study average of .93
                   t-mites___________ none found

Hive two...v-mites per 100___6.6
              ...nosema _________0.45
                t-mites found_____ none found
  
The averages of 11.4 v-mites, .93 (millions per bee) nosema spores (1 million considered treatment threshhold), and 8% t-mites, were based on random hives with many being treated.

My hives were not treated, and based on them being three year old hives, are far less than the average treated hives being looked at. these are full size hives, on regular comb, and have not lost a hive from this yard yet in three years. 10 hives in the yard

 
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Offline Robo

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 11:02:05 AM »
One thing that always sticks in my head is the whole t-mite thing.  Since the normal Joe beekeeper can't see or test for them,  but can see varroa.  How may winter losses are being blamed on varroa that are really t-mite casualties.  Without getting samples tested, the hobbyist has no way to know if they are really getting t-mite resistant bees.  Whereas,  any feral stock that is a survivor is almost guaranteed to be t-mite resistant.   I have to throw this in the mix for myself as well as I never had any samples test.
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Offline Natalie

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 11:13:28 AM »
I bought them at 5 dollars each and sold them at 1 dollar . Anny time with no production I have no time for . My bees are on natural comb , love it . Less honey more wax ,candless sell just as well , gives me a hobby for the winter :)

That is how I feel about the less honey and more wax thing. I have topbar hives along with langs and I hear from some people how I won't get much honey and I will have all this wax.
Well, that is great because I want that wax and since I am going foundationless I guess I will have lots of it too.
I always see ads with people asking to buy blocks of wax, so even if you didn't use it all for candles you could always sell the surplus.
I have never bought the concept that I won't have any honey going foundationless in all my hives, I will have enough.

Offline Robo

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 11:43:09 AM »
One thing to keep in mind is climate.  It takes not only nectar but also heat for bees to build comb.  So southern beekeepers will have a much easier and more productive time getting comb drawn than those in northern climates.
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2009, 03:20:50 AM »
I have to side with BjornBee on this.  I've found 3 basic sizes of comb in the hive, brood comb (4.6-5.4), drone comb (5.2-5.8), and storage comb which is more like 6.0+ along with some nooks and crannies that are less than 4.6. 

To me using small cells is forcing the bees onto  uniformly smaller cells than they might select on their own just like medium brood comb is larger than they might prefer.  Most brood combs I find, using foundationless, is somewhere in between. 

I will continue to use and advocate natural cell, that is: the comb size naturally selected and made by the bees.  Anything else is really nitpicking over superfluous points.  As feral as possible means bees makes the comb they prefer, if they regress to smaller sized comb over several generations of comb building in the brood chamber, so be it, but it doesn't make a big difference over all as you'll still find 3 basic sizes of comb in every hive, even if they have to build burr comb to make it, brood, drone, and storage.
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Offline mgmoore7

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2009, 12:13:20 AM »
I have decided that I regret them.   They have their good points and bad. I won't cover the good points now.

My opinion is that the hives that were on HSC struggled and would not build up until a strong flow.  The bees just did not want to use them and therefore were not very strong.  Even though I am small time, I need the bees to produce.  I am not into experimentation at this point. 

Additionally, 2 weeks ago, I opened up one hive that had finally fully used 1 deep of HSC during the orange blossum flow.  Since they could not use the HSC to make swarm cells, they put them on the queen excluder inbetween each fram and I killed them all opening the hive.  Of course I did not realize what I did until I opened it up.  Additionally, they put drone cells everywhere and it is a mess all the time.  Fortunately, I had another hive that had swarm cells and cut out a few to put in this hive.


So, I reserve the right to change but I doubt I will be buying more. 

Offline annette

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2009, 12:28:13 AM »
It just seems so right to me and right for the bees to be able to draw out whatever they want. That is why I am doing only starter strips now and letting the bees do their thing. They seem so happy when they are festooning like little acrobats making their wax creations. I feel like I am intruding into a special little world when I catch them doing this and I hurry up and place the frame gently back into the super.

Let the bees do what comes naturally.




Offline Robo

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2009, 01:07:43 AM »
I have decided that I regret them.   They have their good points and bad. I won't cover the good points now.

Put me on your short list when you looking to get rid of them :-D
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Offline mgmoore7

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2009, 06:51:47 AM »
I have decided that I regret them.   They have their good points and bad. I won't cover the good points now.

Put me on your short list when you looking to get rid of them :-D

Well now that most of them are finally accepted.....  :-D

Offline Robo

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2009, 08:51:02 AM »
Well now that most of them are finally accepted.....  :-D

Ah come on,  haven't you figured out that you are suppose to be switching to all mediums? Then you too will be accepted :-P
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Offline mgmoore7

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2009, 08:54:40 AM »
Well now that most of them are finally accepted.....  :-D

Ah come on,  haven't you figured out that you are suppose to be switching to all mediums? Then you too will be accepted :-P

LOL.  I think we should switch to your double deep frames.  :) 

Offline tandemrx

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2009, 03:23:44 PM »
what is t-mite?

Offline JP

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Offline fermentedhiker

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Re: Anyone regret purchasing HSC frames?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2009, 01:11:27 PM »
I'm trying some with a package install this year so it's too early for me to be happy/regretful about them yet.  One thing I do find a little odd is that they cells aren't uniform in size at all.  If i look closely it seems to have alternating rows of smaller/larger cells.  The other thing I notice is that a good number of them look wracked as if the frame itself was twisted a little bit when it came out of the mold(not sure how they are actually manufactured so I'm just using terms I understand)  The frames themselves are straight but quite a few of the cells are skewed.  I wonder if this is common and if the bees reluctance to use them is related, above and beyond the fact that they are plastic.
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