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Author Topic: I hope he doesn't fail…  (Read 3007 times)
David LaFerney
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« on: March 26, 2009, 10:51:07 AM »

I believe:

Most Americans are really neither left nor right, but fairly close to the middle. Statistically most of us vote across party lines.

The division in our country is mostly created by media pundits, politicians, and corporate interests who profit from division.

People who use terms like "WingNut" and "LibTard" aren't entertainers, commentators, or in any way part of the solution - they're disrespectful hate mongers and part of the problem.  Sadly there are always those who will consume to that kind of bile. 

You used to see bumper stickers that said something like "I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it."  It's a shame you don't hear that sentiment much any more.

The last thing we need is a failed presidency.

Without both right and left wings we would never go forward.
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009, 10:59:48 AM »

Quote
"I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it." 


certainly not from the left!  and wing nut, is one of my favorite terms.  if you want to see some really  nasty stuff try huffington, democraticunderground, etc.  those folks are vile.

when someone is doing something that will create long term damage, whether it's a CEO of a business, or the president of the US, we do want them to fail in that effort.  there is no logic in wishing success on someone who is destroying your country and constitution.  that's the "go along, to get along", mentality and it is a weakness.  it shows a failure to know what you believe and the lack of stones to stand up for what you believe.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 11:14:32 AM »

Quote
"I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it." 

that's the "go along, to get along", mentality and it is a weakness.  it shows a failure to know what you believe and the lack of stones to stand up for what you believe.

Just for the record - I know what I believe.  I support Our Duly Elected President, and I largely agree with his stated policies.  I also believe that without freedom of speech there is no freedom at all -  supporting the first amendment is certainly not a weakness. 
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 11:32:29 AM »

I also think everyone one, including left and right can say what they want. But that is a far cry from supporting them...  Wink  When they do things I disagree with, I hope they fail. I don't support blindly.

6 months ago....depending on who you read, Bush had a 1.6 to 2.8 trillion dollar deficit. Within 60 days, that went to 9.2 trillion deficit....and those same bashers of Bush for this issue are not even saying a word.

The world knows their economy is connected to ours. And they are starting to shout loudly that spending your way to wealth, and bankrupting your country for whatever the reason, is not the way to go.



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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 11:43:31 AM »

I also think everyone one, including left and right can say what they want. But that is a far cry from supporting them...  Wink  When they do things I disagree with, I hope they fail. I don't support blindly.

6 months ago....depending on who you read, Bush had a 1.6 to 2.8 trillion dollar deficit. Within 60 days, that went to 9.2 trillion deficit....and those same bashers of Bush for this issue are not even saying a word.

The world knows their economy is connected to ours. And they are starting to shout loudly that spending your way to wealth, and bankrupting your country for whatever the reason, is not the way to go.





I totally agree.  However both of those deficits are projections which factor in future revenues as well as expenses.  Obviously, all of those projections have changed in light of the "economic event" we're experiencing. 

I'm as concerned about those things as anyone.  I've just seen my retirement plans evaporate to the tune of about 2 years worth of income.  I'd like for that to come back some day.

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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 11:44:35 AM »

The last thing we need is a failed presidency.

Heck no I want a failed presidency with obama!!!!  I served this country for 8 yrs. and the last thing I want to see is Communism!  For the first time in my life I am ashamed to say that I am an American Cry  If this would have happened back in the 80's I would have never joined the Marine's so I say again to HECK WITH OBAMA!!!!  May his presidency fail in every way possible.
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 11:59:01 AM »

I want the U.S.A. to succeed not Obama's radical views, especially on the 1st, and 2nd amendment he is trying to bankrupt all of us. I spent 4 yrs in the Marines and do not want this country to turn to socialist or communism, that he is trying to do.
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 12:09:58 PM »

Quote
"I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it." 

that's the "go along, to get along", mentality and it is a weakness.  it shows a failure to know what you believe and the lack of stones to stand up for what you believe.

Just for the record - I know what I believe.  I support Our Duly Elected President, and I largely agree with his stated policies.  I also believe that without freedom of speech there is no freedom at all -  supporting the first amendment is certainly not a weakness. 
And yet it's the left that wants to control what others are saying via the oddly named 'Fairness Doctrine'.  I've found the left to be the first to squash free speech.  Calling someone a wingnut is free speech.  Trying to stop someone from calling others a wingnut is against free speech.  It's as simple as that.
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 12:15:25 PM »

i am less concerned with the spending, bad as it is.  taking over companies, limiting salaries, punitive taxation, expanded social programs, bailouts of mortgages, etc. are far more dangerous i think.  these are the things that will destroy our country long term.  

our founders did not think that support of a duly elected presidents was our duty.  it was our duty to protect the constitution FROM those elected officials that would destroy it.  

in our history, we have never seen our government trash the constitution as this one is.  even FDR and Lincoln, who came the closest to ignoring it, did not do what this government is proposing to do.

if they continue on this path we are looking at unprecedented expansion of federal powers, destruction of states rights, destruction of the private sector, and a welfare class that will make all future decisions on taxes and welfare expansion.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 12:39:32 PM »

i am less concerned with the spending, bad as it is.  taking over companies, limiting salaries, punitive taxation, expanded social programs, bailouts of mortgages, etc. are far more dangerous i think.  these are the things that will destroy our country long term.  

our founders did not think that support of a duly elected presidents was our duty.  it was our duty to protect the constitution FROM those elected officials that would destroy it.  

in our history, we have never seen our government trash the constitution as this one is.  even FDR and Lincoln, who came the closest to ignoring it, did not do what this government is proposing to do.

if they continue on this path we are looking at unprecedented expansion of federal powers, destruction of states rights, destruction of the private sector, and a welfare class that will make all future decisions on taxes and welfare expansion.  

Thanks.  You make some extremely valid points, most of which I agree with.  That kind of discourse is likely to influence people instead of making them defensive and hostile.  Clearly you understand what I was getting at.  Loaded, insulting rhetoric divides us while civil discourse builds respect and consensus and makes us stronger as a country.
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 12:51:03 PM »

I'm confused...yet you don't want him to fail in that?

I would think that the "presidency" would be defined by the goals and policies of the president.  I don't want America to fail, but I don't see the president's objectives (and actions) as good for America.  Sort of like Chavez....he's succeeding but his country is failing.
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 01:01:18 PM »

>>>>People who use terms like "WingNut" and "LibTard" aren't entertainers, commentators, or in any way part of the solution - they're disrespectful hate mongers and part of the problem<<<<

>>>>You used to see bumper stickers that said something like "I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it."  It's a shame you don't hear that sentiment much any more.<<<<

I truly don't understand this post. Are you telling me in the first statement to "shut up", then in the next statement that I may say what I want?
I really don't think you can have it both ways. The best I can get from it is that you believe the ones that agree with you can speak, the ones that don't, can't.


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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 02:27:53 PM »

Welcome to the left iddee!  I thought you would have learned that from the other site! grin
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 02:41:45 PM »

I'm confused...yet you don't want him to fail in that?

I would think that the "presidency" would be defined by the goals and policies of the president.  I don't want America to fail, but I don't see the president's objectives (and actions) as good for America.  Sort of like Chavez....he's succeeding but his country is failing.

OK,

"taking over companies, limiting salaries, punitive taxation,... etc. are far more dangerous i think.  these are the things that will destroy our country long term." 

If those were Obama's objective that would be bad - He says that they are not, and I believe him.

" expanded social programs"

I support health care and education reform.  I believe those things are necessary for future progress.

"bailouts of mortgages,"

I'm not crazy about this idea, and I don't really see how it can be implemented.  I'm with a lot of other people in that I didn't buy a house that I couldn't afford, and didn't need why should I help bail out those who did?

"our founders did not think that support of a duly elected presidents was our duty.  it was our duty to protect the constitution FROM those elected officials that would destroy it. "

I agree totally.  We'll see if this president tries to exempt his self from the law with signing statements, suspends habeas corpus, supports kidnapping people and stashing them in secret prisons, or invading the privacy of American citizens.  If he does, I won't like him any more.  Until then...
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 02:46:02 PM »

Our constitution is ours, not our enemy's of our country or any other non citizen!  Why else would you become a citizen if you could get all the benefits without the work! 
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 02:52:46 PM »

>>>>If those were Obama's objective that would be bad - He says that they are not, and I believe him.<<<<

I could care less what his "objectives" are. Those are his accomplishments, and that's the bottom line.

>>>>supports kidnapping people and stashing them in >>>>secret<<<< prisons<<<<

Get serious....If we didn't do that, we could never arrest anyone until after they were tried and found guilty. As for secret, I think Gitmo was a poorly kept secret, if it was supposed to be a secret.
As for the overseas actions, those people don't have the rights US citizens do, that's why we are trying to protect what we have. Besides, watch how things change if we are invaded by a foreign army. You will remember these times as pure heaven.
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 03:02:59 PM »

no, he's talking about rendition.  something clinton used starting in about '95.  the rest of it is liberal talking points.  funny  how they never mention that FDR did actual spying on americans....no it's all about bush spying on americans citizens going about their daily lives and popping into the odd library to check out the subversive 1984.


Quote
He says that they are not, and I believe him

on what do you base your faith in his word?  he's already doing it, or letting it happen.  you need to keep up on what's going on. 

mortgage bailouts are already being implemented.

reform of medical and education i agree with, but not government reform.  there are many private sector ways to improve both and most reforms involve giving people more choice, not less.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 03:29:56 PM »

How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 03:49:06 PM »

How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?

Yes, it seems like I heard something about that.  I think you're correct. Wink

Oh yeah, though.  I also heard that the Bush deficit was really Clinton's fault, and that the mortgage meltdown was Carters fault.  It sure is remarkable - the far reaching effects of a 30 year past weak presidency.
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 03:52:01 PM »

How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?


actually its how easily you forget Clinton was not a leftist he was a centrist, and he had a Republican controlled congress so they had to work together.  I didn't vote for Clinton in 92, but I did vote for him in 96 due to the fact that he did a good job.  Obama is going down a dangerous road that I refuse to follow quietly.  
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 03:56:17 PM »

How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?

Wait a minute....wasn't that 1 trillion "projected" also? And was not the internet bubble already "bursting" onto the scene, followed by 9/11?

Compare that to the projected 7 trillion projection for Obama in just 60 days, and what did it do thus far? Did it fix health care...No! Fix Social Security.....No! He gave it away. And nobody yet has seen their house NOT foreclose!

4 bailouts of AIG and counting. a 3.7 trillion budget by Obama and a recent bill passed (He said he would VETO....LIAR!) full of pork and earmarks.

This country should do what China did.....and drag the likes of Barney out behind the woodshed and spend a 10 cent bullet in correcting the problem.

We now have Nancy "I want a bigger Jet" Pelosi. Ted "the drunken murderer" Kennedy. And Barney "Free mortgages to all" Frank.

First 450 Billion was not even accounted for and went right into the coffers of the likes of ACORN.

Trillions spent....and no results thus far. Our debt will drag on this economy for years. Our taxes will explode in the years to come, from electric fees, to gas prices, as his administration will look to tax everything they can. They are trying to pass an increase of 10 cents per gallon in taxes even as we chat.

And don't bet your 401K will recover anytime soon. Obama did more damage than if he would of just left things play out themselves.

60 Days....and I would not be dissing anyone, while Obama has done what he has done. he's not done anything on a positive note. Nothing....except set this country back years in progress. he speaks the need to change this or that, but thus far nothing but a feeding trough as usual.
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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 03:56:42 PM »

i think you are talking about debt, not deficit.  they are not the same.

i do no blame presidents for recessions.  clinton was not to blame for the recession that bush inherited.  bush i not to blame for the recession that obama inherited.  it is a historical fact that the recessions that have ended the fastest have come after tax cuts.  kennedy, reagan, bush, and clinton, used tax cuts to bring about growth.  

the way to calculate the impact of debt is by the % of GDP it takes up.  the % of GDP taken by the debt under bush was one of the lowest.  the reason is that after the recession and 9/11 we experienced unprecedented growth which led to unprecedented revenue.  yes, the republican congress was irresponsible with spending.  that's part of the reason they are out.  however, the benefits of tax cuts, especially cuts like capitol gains tax cuts that encourage business to expand, are proven.

generally, a president can not be blamed for recession because it's market forces that cause the ups and downs of any economy.  what they can be blamed for (or credited with) is the response.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 04:01:30 PM »

Quote
mortgage meltdown was Carters fault

don't know where you heard that.  it actually was from lending policies forced on the banks by franks and dodd under clinton.  i remember when they did it, and i remember people saying that this is what would happen.  when bush tried to get congress to take a look at fannie and freddy, franks and co. told him that all was well.  no need to change anything.  if you want to lay this in anyones lap.  you can blame barney and his friends.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 04:25:26 PM »

Do you remember when the Bush brothers and Burt Lance were caught in the first S and L scandel?   Funny how we had another one when one of the brothers was president???   The Rep. party likes big money and they do all they can to get it regardless of their supposed "morals".  Dem. have bad points too.  I don't vote by party, and I don't understand why others do either!
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 04:42:50 PM »

 The Rep. party likes big money and they do all they can to get it regardless of their supposed "morals". 

the difference is that the Rep. party is open about it, while the Dem. party does the same thing but then says soothing words about saving the middle class and saving the environment and saving the poor children and puppies.  grin

I vote by party line only because I vote the lesser of two evils.

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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2009, 04:48:19 PM »

You always know things can't be good when one side, who happens to be in power, speaks down the other side, instead of saying what good things they are doing... grin

Can't wait for another 3 years, 10 months of this... rolleyes

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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2009, 05:36:41 PM »

the same s&l scandal that bill and hil got caught in?  who''s friends went to jail rather than possibly testify against them?  we can play this game all day long.  it has nothing to do with what is going on now.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2009, 11:38:21 PM »

I just have to put my oar in the water about this.  I'll climb on my   soapbox  now.

.....to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign or domestic.......

That's part of the Oath of Office of the President of the United States.  Any American citizen, native born or naturalized, Politician, President, or Joe the Plumber, who attempts to suppress, usurp, or eliminate rights granted under the Constitution of the United States is a domestic enemy.

Enacting limits or legislating confiscatory powers, however justified, to any one of the Bill of Rights or any of the other amendments, is an act against the Constitution and if enacted by the President or any other elected US Official is a violation of his/their oath of office.  That means misfeasance or malfeasance of office.  Those are Impeachable offenses.

The Declaration of Independence, our 1st founding document, specifically states that the people have the power to correct the unlawful and grievous actions of our elected officials, by martial means if necessary.  That is a power, a birthright, upon which this country and our Constitution are based.

I do not advocate the overthrow of our government but our elected officials must be made aware of how the majority of Americans (The Silent Majority {unfortunately}) feel about the actions they are taking and reminded of the limit of governmental powers decreed and imposed by said Constitution.  I believe in voicing my opinions as granted under article 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America.  I believe in defending my country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.  When I entered into Military Service I took an oath very much like the ones the President and other Elected and Appointed officials of the United States swear to upon taking office.  I believe it is my duty, as a native born American Citizen, to fullfill, to the best of my ability, that oath until my dying day.  It is an oath that did not end upon my honorable discharged from military service, it is duty I was born with under, and by the authority of the Constitution of the United States of America.

To do less, to standby idly, to accept or support abuse of the principals upon which this nation was founded when the very fabric of my country is in danger is treasonous.  That is why my signature line includes the statement: Apathy is The greatest danger to our society, vote in every election!  Voting is not only our right it is our duty, it is what is necessary to avoid the need to correct the errors of government through martial action.  If you have failed to exercise that right, you are, in part responsible for the misconduct of our officials.  Failure to vote is Seditious by omission. 

Voting is the preferred way to correct government. If you chose to do nothing, you deserve what you get.  But those who have exercised their right to vote do not deserve, nor want, the results of apathy.

Based upon the actions of Barak Hussien Obama  since assuming the office of President of the United States of America, I believe that he is in violation of his oath of office.  This belief extends to his appointees.  It is my intent to attempt to change this through the lawful exercise of my Constitutional Rights and through the empowerment and education of the electorate. 

If you are willing to accept misconduct and/or usurpation of your rights you know where you stand from my viewpoint.

History Lesson: What is going on in this country, at this moment, under the guise of a national emergency is a parallel to what occurred during the 1930's in Germany and look where that took the world.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 12:07:21 AM by Brian D. Bray » Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
reinbeau
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« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2009, 07:19:33 AM »

Don't forget, Obama claims to be a constitutional scholar, who has been quoted as saying he chafes under the constraints of The Constitution.  Of course he does!  It is written to prevent him from doing what he's trying to do anyway.  The guy is a dangerous puppet of the ultra-liberal left.  I'm hoping this is becoming more and more apparent to more and more people, but will they do anything about it?  This is exactly what I was afraid of.  The Bush Haters were so blind with their hatred they would have elected Bozo the Clown as long as he had a D after his name.  And now we're stuck with someone much worse than Bozo.  rolleyes
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« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2009, 07:28:21 AM »

I also think everyone one, including left and right can say what they want. But that is a far cry from supporting them...  Wink  When they do things I disagree with, I hope they fail. I don't support blindly.

6 months ago....depending on who you read, Bush had a 1.6 to 2.8 trillion dollar deficit. Within 60 days, that went to 9.2 trillion deficit....and those same bashers of Bush for this issue are not even saying a word.

The world knows their economy is connected to ours. And they are starting to shout loudly that spending your way to wealth, and bankrupting your country for whatever the reason, is not the way to go.





I totally agree.  However both of those deficits are projections which factor in future revenues as well as expenses.  Obviously, all of those projections have changed in light of the "economic event" we're experiencing. 

I'm as concerned about those things as anyone.  I've just seen my retirement plans evaporate to the tune of about 2 years worth of income.  I'd like for that to come back some day.



Do you truly believe these projections will not come to fruition. The left will not chance upseting thier voting block. The left needs the welfare state to get them elected. This way when all these potential voters are inline for what is "rightfully" theirs, there will be the same leftist leaders telling them look what i have done for you remember me when you head to the polls in the busses I supplied for you. Every nickel the current administration has promised will be pulled from my pocket and redistributed for the next 3 years and 10 months at a minimum.

that's my .0075 0r whats left of my .02

Keith
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johnnybigfish
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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2009, 09:23:45 PM »

Hmmm...
I just dont know what to make of any of this.
I dont trust any of the politicians any more.
 Like I told my son the other day.....Tons of people can tell you what the problem is..These people are a dime a dozen. But, If only one out of a hundred had a solution( or out of a thousand) That in itself would be a miracle.
 I think Banks and Govt. should be able to say "NO" to other peoples requests...We should be starting with our own kids....Make people save money for what they want instead of everything being on credit (oh, I'm not pointing fingers by any means....I use my lowes card and home depot card and VISA WAY MORE often than I should...I'm just lucky that I can make the payments on time)...But, I used to say that If DEBT was ok for our country, it was good enough for me too!
Well,...Thats all.....
your friend,
john
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