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Offline David LaFerney

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I hope he doesn't fail…
« on: March 26, 2009, 11:51:07 AM »
I believe:

Most Americans are really neither left nor right, but fairly close to the middle. Statistically most of us vote across party lines.

The division in our country is mostly created by media pundits, politicians, and corporate interests who profit from division.

People who use terms like "WingNut" and "LibTard" aren't entertainers, commentators, or in any way part of the solution - they're disrespectful hate mongers and part of the problem.  Sadly there are always those who will consume to that kind of bile. 

You used to see bumper stickers that said something like "I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it."  It's a shame you don't hear that sentiment much any more.

The last thing we need is a failed presidency.

Without both right and left wings we would never go forward.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Online kathyp

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009, 11:59:48 AM »
Quote
"I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it." 


certainly not from the left!  and wing nut, is one of my favorite terms.  if you want to see some really  nasty stuff try huffington, democraticunderground, etc.  those folks are vile.

when someone is doing something that will create long term damage, whether it's a CEO of a business, or the president of the US, we do want them to fail in that effort.  there is no logic in wishing success on someone who is destroying your country and constitution.  that's the "go along, to get along", mentality and it is a weakness.  it shows a failure to know what you believe and the lack of stones to stand up for what you believe.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline David LaFerney

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 12:14:32 PM »
Quote
"I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it." 

that's the "go along, to get along", mentality and it is a weakness.  it shows a failure to know what you believe and the lack of stones to stand up for what you believe.

Just for the record - I know what I believe.  I support Our Duly Elected President, and I largely agree with his stated policies.  I also believe that without freedom of speech there is no freedom at all -  supporting the first amendment is certainly not a weakness. 
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Offline BjornBee

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 12:32:29 PM »
I also think everyone one, including left and right can say what they want. But that is a far cry from supporting them...  ;)  When they do things I disagree with, I hope they fail. I don't support blindly.

6 months ago....depending on who you read, Bush had a 1.6 to 2.8 trillion dollar deficit. Within 60 days, that went to 9.2 trillion deficit....and those same bashers of Bush for this issue are not even saying a word.

The world knows their economy is connected to ours. And they are starting to shout loudly that spending your way to wealth, and bankrupting your country for whatever the reason, is not the way to go.



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Offline David LaFerney

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 12:43:31 PM »
I also think everyone one, including left and right can say what they want. But that is a far cry from supporting them...  ;)  When they do things I disagree with, I hope they fail. I don't support blindly.

6 months ago....depending on who you read, Bush had a 1.6 to 2.8 trillion dollar deficit. Within 60 days, that went to 9.2 trillion deficit....and those same bashers of Bush for this issue are not even saying a word.

The world knows their economy is connected to ours. And they are starting to shout loudly that spending your way to wealth, and bankrupting your country for whatever the reason, is not the way to go.





I totally agree.  However both of those deficits are projections which factor in future revenues as well as expenses.  Obviously, all of those projections have changed in light of the "economic event" we're experiencing. 

I'm as concerned about those things as anyone.  I've just seen my retirement plans evaporate to the tune of about 2 years worth of income.  I'd like for that to come back some day.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Offline vermmy35

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 12:44:35 PM »
The last thing we need is a failed presidency.

Heck no I want a failed presidency with obama!!!!  I served this country for 8 yrs. and the last thing I want to see is Communism!  For the first time in my life I am ashamed to say that I am an American :'(  If this would have happened back in the 80's I would have never joined the Marine's so I say again to HECK WITH OBAMA!!!!  May his presidency fail in every way possible.
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Offline Big John

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 12:59:01 PM »
I want the U.S.A. to succeed not Obama's radical views, especially on the 1st, and 2nd amendment he is trying to bankrupt all of us. I spent 4 yrs in the Marines and do not want this country to turn to socialist or communism, that he is trying to do.
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Offline reinbeau

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 01:09:58 PM »
Quote
"I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it." 

that's the "go along, to get along", mentality and it is a weakness.  it shows a failure to know what you believe and the lack of stones to stand up for what you believe.

Just for the record - I know what I believe.  I support Our Duly Elected President, and I largely agree with his stated policies.  I also believe that without freedom of speech there is no freedom at all -  supporting the first amendment is certainly not a weakness. 
And yet it's the left that wants to control what others are saying via the oddly named 'Fairness Doctrine'.  I've found the left to be the first to squash free speech.  Calling someone a wingnut is free speech.  Trying to stop someone from calling others a wingnut is against free speech.  It's as simple as that.

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Online kathyp

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 01:15:25 PM »
i am less concerned with the spending, bad as it is.  taking over companies, limiting salaries, punitive taxation, expanded social programs, bailouts of mortgages, etc. are far more dangerous i think.  these are the things that will destroy our country long term.  

our founders did not think that support of a duly elected presidents was our duty.  it was our duty to protect the constitution FROM those elected officials that would destroy it.  

in our history, we have never seen our government trash the constitution as this one is.  even FDR and Lincoln, who came the closest to ignoring it, did not do what this government is proposing to do.

if they continue on this path we are looking at unprecedented expansion of federal powers, destruction of states rights, destruction of the private sector, and a welfare class that will make all future decisions on taxes and welfare expansion.  
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline David LaFerney

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 01:39:32 PM »
i am less concerned with the spending, bad as it is.  taking over companies, limiting salaries, punitive taxation, expanded social programs, bailouts of mortgages, etc. are far more dangerous i think.  these are the things that will destroy our country long term.  

our founders did not think that support of a duly elected presidents was our duty.  it was our duty to protect the constitution FROM those elected officials that would destroy it.  

in our history, we have never seen our government trash the constitution as this one is.  even FDR and Lincoln, who came the closest to ignoring it, did not do what this government is proposing to do.

if they continue on this path we are looking at unprecedented expansion of federal powers, destruction of states rights, destruction of the private sector, and a welfare class that will make all future decisions on taxes and welfare expansion.  

Thanks.  You make some extremely valid points, most of which I agree with.  That kind of discourse is likely to influence people instead of making them defensive and hostile.  Clearly you understand what I was getting at.  Loaded, insulting rhetoric divides us while civil discourse builds respect and consensus and makes us stronger as a country.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 01:51:03 PM »
I'm confused...yet you don't want him to fail in that?

I would think that the "presidency" would be defined by the goals and policies of the president.  I don't want America to fail, but I don't see the president's objectives (and actions) as good for America.  Sort of like Chavez....he's succeeding but his country is failing.
Rick

Offline iddee

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 02:01:18 PM »
>>>>People who use terms like "WingNut" and "LibTard" aren't entertainers, commentators, or in any way part of the solution - they're disrespectful hate mongers and part of the problem<<<<

>>>>You used to see bumper stickers that said something like "I may disagree with what you say, yet believe in your right to say it."  It's a shame you don't hear that sentiment much any more.<<<<

I truly don't understand this post. Are you telling me in the first statement to "shut up", then in the next statement that I may say what I want?
I really don't think you can have it both ways. The best I can get from it is that you believe the ones that agree with you can speak, the ones that don't, can't.


"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline jdpro5010

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 03:27:53 PM »
Welcome to the left iddee!  I thought you would have learned that from the other site! :-D

Offline David LaFerney

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 03:41:45 PM »
I'm confused...yet you don't want him to fail in that?

I would think that the "presidency" would be defined by the goals and policies of the president.  I don't want America to fail, but I don't see the president's objectives (and actions) as good for America.  Sort of like Chavez....he's succeeding but his country is failing.

OK,

"taking over companies, limiting salaries, punitive taxation,... etc. are far more dangerous i think.  these are the things that will destroy our country long term." 

If those were Obama's objective that would be bad - He says that they are not, and I believe him.

" expanded social programs"

I support health care and education reform.  I believe those things are necessary for future progress.

"bailouts of mortgages,"

I'm not crazy about this idea, and I don't really see how it can be implemented.  I'm with a lot of other people in that I didn't buy a house that I couldn't afford, and didn't need why should I help bail out those who did?

"our founders did not think that support of a duly elected presidents was our duty.  it was our duty to protect the constitution FROM those elected officials that would destroy it. "

I agree totally.  We'll see if this president tries to exempt his self from the law with signing statements, suspends habeas corpus, supports kidnapping people and stashing them in secret prisons, or invading the privacy of American citizens.  If he does, I won't like him any more.  Until then...
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Offline jdpro5010

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 03:46:02 PM »
Our constitution is ours, not our enemy's of our country or any other non citizen!  Why else would you become a citizen if you could get all the benefits without the work! 

Offline iddee

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 03:52:46 PM »
>>>>If those were Obama's objective that would be bad - He says that they are not, and I believe him.<<<<

I could care less what his "objectives" are. Those are his accomplishments, and that's the bottom line.

>>>>supports kidnapping people and stashing them in >>>>secret<<<< prisons<<<<

Get serious....If we didn't do that, we could never arrest anyone until after they were tried and found guilty. As for secret, I think Gitmo was a poorly kept secret, if it was supposed to be a secret.
As for the overseas actions, those people don't have the rights US citizens do, that's why we are trying to protect what we have. Besides, watch how things change if we are invaded by a foreign army. You will remember these times as pure heaven.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online kathyp

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 04:02:59 PM »
no, he's talking about rendition.  something clinton used starting in about '95.  the rest of it is liberal talking points.  funny  how they never mention that FDR did actual spying on americans....no it's all about bush spying on americans citizens going about their daily lives and popping into the odd library to check out the subversive 1984.


Quote
He says that they are not, and I believe him

on what do you base your faith in his word?  he's already doing it, or letting it happen.  you need to keep up on what's going on. 

mortgage bailouts are already being implemented.

reform of medical and education i agree with, but not government reform.  there are many private sector ways to improve both and most reforms involve giving people more choice, not less.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline ArmucheeBee

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 04:29:56 PM »
How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?
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Offline David LaFerney

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 04:49:06 PM »
How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?

Yes, it seems like I heard something about that.  I think you're correct. ;)

Oh yeah, though.  I also heard that the Bush deficit was really Clinton's fault, and that the mortgage meltdown was Carters fault.  It sure is remarkable - the far reaching effects of a 30 year past weak presidency.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Offline vermmy35

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Re: I hope he doesn't fail…
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 04:52:01 PM »
How easliy we forget.  Bush entered office with a 1 trillion dollar surplus left by a leftist, president.  After 1 year, after his (Bush's) tax cuts, it was nearing a 1 trillion dollar deficit (July 2001).  Frankly, I don't think the republican policy of tax cuts, deregulation, and trickle down economics worked very well.  Am I alone in that?  It appears went just came out of a FAILED presidency.  Am I alone in that too?


actually its how easily you forget Clinton was not a leftist he was a centrist, and he had a Republican controlled congress so they had to work together.  I didn't vote for Clinton in 92, but I did vote for him in 96 due to the fact that he did a good job.  Obama is going down a dangerous road that I refuse to follow quietly.  
Semper Fi to all my brothers out there
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