Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: The World is starting to turn  (Read 5140 times)

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 15608
  • Gender: Female
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2009, 06:11:38 PM »
having a plan is good.  having a plan that the president of the country gets to pass on is scary.  good for ford not taking the money!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Brian D. Bray

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 7369
  • Gender: Male
  • I really look like this, just ask Cindi.
    • http://spaces.msn.com/thecoonsden
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2009, 10:23:47 PM »
having a plan is good.  having a plan that the president of the country gets to pass on is scary.  good for ford not taking the money!

The BIG 3 will soon be the Ford Survivor,  :tumbleweed:

Ain't it scarey that our President isn't even taking a deep breath before forcing out the CEO of free market company.  Who's he think he is anyway?.....The President of China?  Over there they shoot failures of such magnitude.....Oops, better not whisper that where any of Obama's lackies might be.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 15608
  • Gender: Female
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2009, 11:07:39 PM »
now ford must compete against government subsidized companies....in our own country.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline lmehaffey

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 109
  • Gender: Male
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2009, 07:38:38 AM »
I asked my daughter's husband - a graphic designer for our local Museum of Art - to design a new bumper sticker for my truck:
"Free America -- Buy Ford!"

Hard to tell if he'll do it, though....boy voted for the moron.
It is what it is.......except when it isn't.

Offline beeslinger

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Gender: Male
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2009, 10:51:07 AM »
 At the moment we are "citizens" when they manage to get our guns we will be 'subjects"!

Offline beemaster

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.
    • http://www.beemaster.com
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2009, 02:03:51 PM »
I am amazed at how so many "Left-thinking people" who belong to the forum and email me mention that we have a large "Right-Winged" group here, yet these same people who complain NEVER seem to post their views and opinions - I often wonder if their points are arguable? No one is surpressed here, keep it friendly and all views can be written. I believe though that MANY beekeepers have at least a "middle of the road" to "right leaning" view of things - I say this just believing it comes with the hobby of beekeeping. If you go to another forum where the HEARTLAND of the STATES are less represented, then you likely would see different distributions of member's beliefs.

I just feel that in the case of George W. Bush, the country was looking for Conservative thinking, but got a blooming idiot for their vote, even though I still firmly believe Al Gore was ripped off from being President - Now in a means of over correcting the vote went SEEMINGLY to the far left, but I think it just came down to a case of which candidate is the LESSER OF TWO EVILS, rather than THE EVIL OF TWO LESSERS - could we have again made that mistake? It was hard for the Republicans to separate their candidate this time around from the flaws of old-school republicanism. I don't know anyone personally who is hardlined, and doesn't disagree on some issues - no matter what party they affiliate with. But that is an issue to issue basis, nothing that would deter them from their core beliefs.

I just wish Obama would knock off the weekly primetime news conferences, everytime he holds one, saying everything is gloom and doom (at least in the short term) the market drops hundreds of points. Why can't he just do what every other President has done and keep us in the dark, because if you can't show us the light at the end of the tunnel, then you are only showing us darkness.

Then getting rid of GMs President dumped the market again in the toilet like a teabag in a cup of hot water, we dish out all this money, then put rediculous time restraints on it which can never be made. You can't take a problem that took years to make, give it money, not even enough in most cases to clear the debt, and expect to see a turn around. I think we are seeing the end of the American Car Company - luck for us, many foreign companies have US based facilities or we would be out of the car building business altogether. I only say lucky for us because of the massive jobs it creates, if we lost foreign business too, unemployment would be catistrophic.

I don't think anyone wishes this administration gloom and doom in their achievements, not when everything they do directly affects each and every one of us - that is cutting your own hand off I believe. Historically speaking though, I still believe it is in our contries behalf to have a more conservative based union - every ten years a new generation of humans come of age and see the leadership flip-flop from ultra left to ultra right and back again, you wonder why we can't get the youth to vote, just when they start to get a grasp on how politics work, the teams change.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 02:37:58 PM by beemaster »
NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection

Please enjoy the forum, and if it has helped you in any way, we hope that a small donation can be made to support our FULLY member supported forum. You will never see advertisements here, and that is because of the generous members who have made our forum possible. We are in our second decade as a beekeeping forum and all thanks to member support. At the top right of every page is a donations link. Please help if you can.

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 15608
  • Gender: Female
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2009, 02:26:57 PM »
in my voting lifetime, we have not had a far left or far right president.  the closest on the left was Carter, on the right Reagan. all others have been more centrist.  bush's failure was to not use his veto pen more often.  Clinton had an inability to make hard decisions on confronting enemies.  both failings had far reaching consequences.

we now have a far left president.  the reason you don't see more argument in favor of the far left is that it is not a defensible position unless you are a socialist.  he was elected because people bought the emotional positions presented to them by the press.  they bought the vilification of the bush's policies without examining the facts.  they rightly were disgusted with the behavior of congress, both sides.

when a president makes decisions on defense, national security, etc. those decisions are easy to change later.  things like the patriot act, gitmo, etc. can be changed with a dip of the pen.  when a president makes decisions that increase the number of people dependent on government, those decisions are forever.  you can never get rid of Medicare, social security, childrens health care, etc.  once companies are nationalized, it will be next to imposable to turn them back over to the public sector.  once national health care is in place, it will be imposable to get rid of it.  turning massive tracts of land into wilderness and putting those resources off limit will never be overturned.

this president and congress are doing things that will change this country forever, and he's doing it without regard for the constitution.  what i wonder is where all those people are who screamed in the streets about the patriot act and the constitution.  they are remarkable silent now.  why?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline beeslinger

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Gender: Male
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2009, 02:32:41 PM »
 If it was the "lesser of 2 evils" then we were doomed from the begining. I work on the Space Shuttle program and instead of extending that to keep us in space he is giving $$ to the Russians, myself and thousands WILL get laid off next June.... I believe his (all democrats) fastest way to socialism is to colapse the U.S. dollar and then say "I will get you out of this" and we do NOT have a choice at that point... As it is all companies will be magaged by him, NOT the government as a whole.. forget "by the people". That is gone..... now it is "for the sheeple".. enough from me on this marxist...............

Offline oldenglish

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 272
  • Gender: Male
    • Colonial Honey Farm
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2009, 03:23:21 PM »
I dont have a vote in this country, but I am a beekeeper so I have an opinion  :)

Bush, to call him a flaming idiot is a gross understatement, on his first election night I was at a friends house and remember telling everyone that if he got voted in he would find some excuse to invade Iraq and finish daddy's work I was laughed at but we all know how that story goes. When he got voted back in a 2nd time I could hardly believe it, sorry but that just shows how stupid the voting majority can be. History will have its say on Bush and I for one dont think it will be very positive.

Obama, America supprised me, although I dont know why, if they could vote in a raging idiot then why would they not vote for a one term done nothing senator ? His policies scare me more than bush did, I am really concerned that his government can call for the resignation of a CEO when that should be the job of the shareholders and the board, government has never been efficient at anything, except creating bureaucracy, what makes them think they know whats best for a private company ?
I hope I am wrong about Obama but I have my doubts about anyone who is more concerned about trying to please everyone rather than getting the job done right.

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 15608
  • Gender: Female
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2009, 03:58:33 PM »
I was one of those people not in favor of going into Iraq.  I have since change my mind.  Sun Tzu (and I paraphrase) said fight the enemy under the circumstances most favorable to you, or withdraw until you can fight on your terms.  Entice the enemy to a position favorable to you by whatever means necessary.

I thought it was important to go after the terrorists in Afghanistan.  I knew we did not have the resources to fight two wars well, unless we were going to use the “scorched earth” policy….something we seem reluctant to do.

Then I began to study the history of Afghanistan and wars fought there.  No outside power has ever been successful there.  Alexander the Great came the closest by making trade and development deal, but on his withdrawal and later death, those deals fell apart.
We many never know if Iraq was a designed strategy, or a happy accident, but if our goal was to disrupt and kill AQ, Iraq was the place to do it.  It was the one place that we had a legal right to fight, and where a moral case could be made for war. Where else could we go to entice the enemy away from an unfavorable battle field without the enemy knowing the real reason?  We know that they will go wherever there is a fight against the infidel.  They went to Afghanistan in the first place to fight against the Russians…and found a safe haven. They were in Somalia, Syria, and Yemen.

I am not now in favor of sending more troops to Afghanistan.  It is a waste of lives to put troops on the ground. We can not fight them on their own territory and only 6 month out of the year.  We need to get over our fear of flattening places and take the bad guys out from the air as we find them.  If that means taking out “innocents” we should do so.  If we are not willing to do the job, we should not engage in the war.  This was my problem with Iraq.  The execution was poor, and because of the rules of engagement, we lost lives that need not have been lost.

As for the Bush elections, given the choices of Gore and Kerry, I think Bush was a pretty good deal.  I believe that history will vindicate most of his choices, but perhaps not the bailouts and allowing congress to get away with all that they did.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Brian D. Bray

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 7369
  • Gender: Male
  • I really look like this, just ask Cindi.
    • http://spaces.msn.com/thecoonsden
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2009, 06:18:26 PM »
Quote
but I think it just came down to a case of which candidate is the LESSER OF TWO EVILS, rather than THE EVIL OF TWO LESSERS

It was actually both, it came down to chosing to vote for the continuation of Bushes policies or vote for an a totally unknown with a demonstrated tendency of a socialist agenda. 

Bush lead by letting the horse control the reins, Obama is leading by hobbling the horse.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 15608
  • Gender: Female
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2009, 06:41:13 PM »
McCain was an awful pick.  i would have voted for a conservative dem before i would have voted for him.  he would have been a terrible leader. obama is pretty strong leader. he just leads us to disaster.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Irwin

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2344
  • Gender: Male
  • howdy all
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2009, 09:46:50 AM »
See what you started Keith :-D :-P :-D It's been a good read.
Fight organized crime!  Re-elect no one.

Offline Keith13

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1833
  • Gender: Male
Re: The World is starting to turn
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2009, 02:24:41 PM »
See what you started Keith :-D :-P :-D It's been a good read.

This one is almost as good as my round up thread last year :-D :-D :-D

Keith

 

anything