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Author Topic: What's New At My House!  (Read 8327 times)
Brian D. Bray
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« on: March 24, 2009, 11:00:38 PM »

Been awhile since I let people know what's been happening at the Bray Homestead.
1.  Both Goat does had kids, 1st one was born during a snow flurry, dark thirty in the morning, with temps below freezing.  It was that does 1st kid, it froze to death before she could lick it dry.  Found it frozen solid the next morning.  The older doe had a little billy, definitely shows the Toggenburg coloring, Solid Chocolate brown except for the markings around the nose, ears, and hoofs which are trimmed with light brown, makes it look like a Mars bar.  Cute kid, but I fixed him.
2. Spent the last month getting over a bad case of pneumonia, but the 2000 IUs of Vitamin D is helping the SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).  I now feel like getting out of bed, just in time with getting over the pneumonia.
3.  Yesterday we laid the 1st section of concrete for the new chicken house, have 2 more sections to lay between rain showers over the next few days.  Had to buy more bags of concrete as it's taking more than I calculated, but then I'm no contractor.  I will be building the walls and when that's done I'll be having a good old fashioned barn rising except for a chicken house.  I calculated the Cost of the building (3 rooms, 1st chickens, 2nd feed, 3rd Turkeys) at about $2500.00 but the siding and roofing materials comes to half that.  I'm in need of a winning lottory ticket.
4.  The Black Jersey Giants, Joe Pyle Game Hens, and Red Bourbon Turkeys I ordered back at Thankgiving is supposed to be shipped on the 30th.  Got to finish getting the brooders ready. 
5.  Johnnybigfish is supposed to be shipping me 4 white pigeons I sent him the bands for.  Hey Johnny, whats the shipping costs?
6.  Have to rebuild the rabbit hutches this summer between erecting 500 feet of pasture fence.  The rabbits ate all the wood not protected by metal covering.  The pasture fence has to be 6 foot high welded wire goat proof fence.  Can you say Expensive.  The estimated cost by a professional was $17 Grand for the whole place.
I'm doing it in monthly installments 100 feet and $250.00 at a time.
7.  I have 2 packages of bees coming the last Saturday in April and need to set up 2 swarm traps and a bait hive.  There's a bee tree  behing by younger brother's place and I hope to entice a swarm or 2, ordered the lemongrass oil.  Thanks to who ever posted the link.
8.  My 2 hives have come through the winter fine and are building up nicely.  The weather is still too irratic for any serious beekeeping yet but I need to go in within the next week and steal some empty combs for my packages and put in some swarm control empty frames (keep the brood chamber open).  I'm not having to feed as they are bringing in lots of nectar and pollen.  Maples are going heavy right now (I'm next door to 1500 acres of forest lands)and the fruit trees are budding up (there's over 300 within a quarter mile of me) so the bees should be well set going into the "summer" flow.
9.  I've decided not to do pigeon racing this year.  Too much has to be spent on projects to allow money for luxuries.
10.  I told the wife I might be able to start on her honey do list after I'm done with mine.  I hope she understands what that really means! rant Cindi  2012 if the worlds still holding together then.

This is the end of the 2009 1st quarter update from  Brian yours truly.
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 12:17:55 PM »

Sounds like you have your work cutout, kinda in a similar boat here.

1.Started the year by becoming a board member for the Northwest District Beekeepers Association. I also took over the newsletter and completely revamped the club website.
2. Decided to put in a garden (was inspired by seeing yours when I visited) I cleared an area 30x30, rototilled and raked, need to finish it up when the weather improves (just heard it was snowing at the house again)
3. Decided to change my original Apiary location so I am in the process of cutting down 5 30' alder and clearing out the salmonberry, hopefully will be done with that this weekend.
4. Still need to put up fencing to protect the hives and garden and to keep llama & goats on the property, especially the goats who have discovered that the grass really is greener on my nieghbors property.
5. Finished getting hives ready, painted and set for foundationless.
6. Finished building my first TBH
7. Need to build some swarm traps
8. Need to build a bee vac
9. Have a site picked out for a chicken coop and run, need to put some thought into the construction as $$ are in short supply and I dont want to supply a buffett to the local racoon population.
10. My bees are supposed to be here on April 15th.

Finally if I get all this done I need to do maintanance on the house which has been neglected for too many years, including finishing a master bath remodel I started 5 yrs ago  Undecided
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 09:04:34 PM »

Brian, oh man, oh man, oh man.  You have had your plate full of muck!!!!  And I mean that in every way you can think of.  I have been absent from our forum for a couple of weeks coming up too, ever since we took that trip to our Daughters' houses, bringing home the Grandsons for the spring break and my internet completely messing right up.  Messing up so badly that I have barely had any time on the cyberspace.  My Husband has been breaking his back trying to get everyone's routers and all working, he has learned alot, over many, many, many hours on the telephone, to find out the issues.  I think he has won.  My computer is so fast now, it is kind of giving me the willies.  It is going to take a mountain for me to catch up on what has been going on with my life.  Nothing, compared to what you have been going through.  Good to hear that all is getting well.

And Old English, you got your plate full too.  We are all heading into the busy time.  I still haven't had time to get in to check my bees, but I looked at them from the outside today, they are going gangbusters, making up for their thousands and thousands of Sisters that didn't make it through this winter.  Heads up, smiling.....spring is on it way, I know that, I hear the birds.

Still haven't heard head nor tail of the tree frogs yet, that really is the first sign of spring around here, maybe tonight, smiling......have a most wonderfully beautiful and that gorgeous day, love our life.  Cindi
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 12:21:44 AM »

Oh Brian, you are busy!  That fencing  shocked My goat stays in the 4ft if I have a hotwire a couple of inches from the top & about 15 inches from the bottom.  He is a whether though & only wants to be where we are. I do have to keep anything out of jumping range though or he will hop up & out. I'm sorry about the little kiddlin, that must have been so sad, your heart just drops when you walk outside & see.  Keep us posted & don't push it too much whilst recovering. pneumonia is nothing to take chances with & will drop you flat again!  Take care  J
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 08:23:38 AM »

Finally if I get all this done I need to do maintanance on the house which has been neglected for too many years, including finishing a master bath remodel I started 5 yrs ago 


No need to get in a rush about thing's grin grin
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 10:30:44 PM »

Johnnybigfish called me this morning.  The pigeons will be here Saturday.  4 White Squeekers.

Then my older brother called and he's shipping me 7 more of special colored birds.  Bronze, self brown, violet and a stork.  A stork colored pigeon is one that is all white with black flight and tail feathers.

So my flock of pigeons will consist of: Blue Bars, Blue Checks, Red Checks, Silvers (aka red bars or mealy), Grizzles (metalic sheen), all White, Bronze Bar, Bronze Checks, Violets, Storks, and all (self) Browns.

In flight all at once they'll look like a Kalideoscope with so many colors changing position in the flock as they swoop and dance through the sky.  It's a very neat sight.  Gives you some of the Ahh moments.

On other news the Hatchery sent me an email and the chicks and turkey pults are to be shipped Tuesday with a Wednesday or Thursday delivery date.

I built 2 walls on my new chicken coop.  I told my brother that since it was going to have 4 doors it was a sedan, not a coop.
And another 1/3 of the concrete floor poured.  Ran out of Concrete ( 1.5 bags left) so the other 1/3 of the floor has to wait until payday (Tuesday)  so I have the money to buy the rest of the concrete (45 more bags).  I will also be buying the OSB paneling for the siding and corrigated roofing then too.  Should have the chicken house finished by mid-April. 

Then I have to turn my attention to the bees for the balance of the month to set up for 2 packages, a bait hive in the bee yard, and set out a couple swarm traps.  I'll be stealing some drawn comb from my existing hives for the packages which gives me the opportunity to open up the brood nest by putting foundationless frames in the 3 & 6 locations (8 frame hives) in all the brood boxes.

After that it is a fencing I will build for the remainder of the summer with some more work on building a few more raised beds for the garden.   
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009, 11:43:36 PM »

I built 2 walls on my new chicken coop.  I told my brother that since it was going to have 4 doors it was a sedan, not a coop.
And another 1/3 of the concrete floor poured.  Ran out of Concrete ( 1.5 bags left) so the other 1/3 of the floor has to wait until payday (Tuesday)  so I have the money to buy the rest of the concrete (45 more bags).  I will also be buying the OSB paneling for the siding and corrigated roofing then too.  Should have the chicken house finished by mid-April.    

Go, Brian, go!!!  YOu got your plate more than chuck plum full!!!  Who on earth is doing the cement work?  I remember last summer watching my Husband use the cement mixer, wheelbarrow and plumb hard work to put in that 14 X 14 cement pad for our Daughter's horse.  The blood, sweat and tears that I saw him go through, I can't imagine what you guys are doing!!!  And you still got 45 more bags of concrete to mix in the navi jak, crazeee,  I wanna hear more, when you have that spare moment in time.  Have a most wonderful day, night, health, love this groovin' life we love. Cindi
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2009, 11:22:22 PM »

Rain and wind as kept me indoors the last few days so no progress on building the chicken house.

The Post Office called at 5:30 am and said the pigeons from JohnnyBigFish were there, could I come and get them.  4 nice squeakers, 2 all white and 2 with small saddles in the middle of the back, 1 brown, 1 black.

While I was at the Post Office I informed them that I was expecting 2-3 more shipments of birds this next week.  25 chickens, 16 Turkeys, and 8 more pigeons from my older brother.

Tomorrow I go to the bigbox hardware store to get 2 new entry doors for the studio apartment on the back of the garage.  My youngest son lives there and showed me how the used once, used twice, used 3rd time doors we put on when we built (used lumber from a tear down) it were literally coming apart at the seams.  So I now have to frame in 2 new doors.  New this time, not used. 

The bright side is that with nearly 50 pigeons, 15 chickens (currently), 1 ram, 1 billy goat, 2 does, and a kid, and 6 rabbits I don't lack for fertilizer for the garden.

Have to buy another 45 bags of concrete to finish the floor to the new chicken house.  It's a good thing I got a deal on my mixer ($179 new) cause I'm using it hard.  Work to resume Wednesday if it don't rain too hard.

Here in the PNW they say we are born with webbed feet, but I can tell you from experience, that we have learned to work in the rain until the fish start getting in the way.
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 11:23:27 AM »

Brian is your son helping with all this work.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2009, 12:15:58 PM »

Brian is your son helping with all this work.


You have opened a sore spot.  I'm lucky if I can get him to feed the goats or mow the lawn which are the only 2 jobs on the place I can get him to do with and regularity.  He's also like my wife, bless her heart, he doesn't have a good spacial relationship on how things work or go together.  When I have him help I spend all my time trying to tell him how to do the job in a way he'll understand, and it still turns out wrong.  I've had him help me get hay about 1/2 dozen times now.  He still can't stack the bales correctly.  Where I, or somebody who knows how to stack hay bales, can get 40 bales into my storage area he can only get about 30.

In other words, I can usually do more faster without his help even if I am disabled.
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2009, 09:39:20 AM »

Brian is your son helping with all this work.


You have opened a sore spot.  I'm lucky if I can get him to feed the goats or mow the lawn which are the only 2 jobs on the place I can get him to do with and regularity.  He's also like my wife, bless her heart, he doesn't have a good spacial relationship on how things work or go together.  When I have him help I spend all my time trying to tell him how to do the job in a way he'll understand, and it still turns out wrong.  I've had him help me get hay about 1/2 dozen times now.  He still can't stack the bales correctly.  Where I, or somebody who knows how to stack hay bales, can get 40 bales into my storage area he can only get about 30.

In other words, I can usually do more faster without his help even if I am disabled.
I know how you feel got one myself. beat a dead horse
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2009, 09:10:06 PM »

Good news bad news:  The good news is that the Post Office called this morning and my Black Jersey Giant and Joe Pyle Game hens were in.  The bad news, the Joe Pyle games hens were all dead.  They were 1/2 the size of the Giants and were stomped to death as there was nearly 3 times as many there were game hens.
I got them home too late to voice my displeasure via phone--time zone difference--so that has to wait until tomorrow.  I did go the McMurray's Website and sent them a juicy  hissy fit email.  I even told them I considered the loss of all of the game hens their fault because they shipped birds of different sizes in the same crate without any kind of a divider between them.
I'll see what they have to say tomorrow when I will repeat my comments both complaint and constructive critisizm.
Turkey's are either scheduled or in transit which I'll try to find out more about tomorrow.

Got a signed note from the local Post Master verifying the dead chicks just in case.  My Daughter was with me and was crushed to see the baby quail sized game chicks mashed into the litter in the bottom of the shipping crate. 

The Jersey Giants are in the brooder, beaks dipped in water and mash and were merrily quaffing and munching last I looked.
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 07:45:50 PM »

Oh Brian.....that is awful about the stomping of the Joe Pyles.  Fourteen turkeys!!!  Are you nuts!!!  I am not impressed with the turkeys that I raised to 7 and a half months old.  Those heritage birds.  They were supposed to dress out at about 20 pounds (toms), but they were about 12 pound each (three of them, not impressed at all, must have done something wrong that they were so small).

YOu got a whole lotta Jersey Giants going on there.

I got a wack of 2 day old chicks a couple of weeks ago from the co-op, couldn't resist, all poulets, except for the buff orpingtons
13 barred rock poulets
one australorpe poulets
one silver laced wayandotte poulet
one speckeled sussex poulet
two buff orpingtons, poulet and cockeral

They are all supposed to be hens, but I am kind of wonderin'......

Have a wonderful day, life, great health.  Cindi

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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 11:04:09 PM »

Oh Brian.....that is awful about the stomping of the Joe Pyles.  Fourteen turkeys!!!  Are you nuts!!!  I am not impressed with the turkeys that I raised to 7 and a half months old.  Those heritage birds.  They were supposed to dress out at about 20 pounds (toms), but they were about 12 pound each (three of them, not impressed at all, must have done something wrong that they were so small).

YOu got a whole lotta Jersey Giants going on there.

I got a wack of 2 day old chicks a couple of weeks ago from the co-op, couldn't resist, all poulets, except for the buff orpingtons
13 barred rock poulets
one australorpe poulets
one silver laced wayandotte poulet
one speckeled sussex poulet
two buff orpingtons, poulet and cockeral

They are all supposed to be hens, but I am kind of wonderin'......

Have a wonderful day, life, great health.  Cindi



They only guarentee 90-95% accuracy on sexed birds except for sexlinked varities. 

Stopped by the feed store on my way to the Big Box hardware/lumber store.  I bought 6 Golden Laced Wyandottes 1 midget white turkey and 1 Red Bourbon, they were the only 2 turkeys they had left and I felt sorry for them.  As for the turkeys I ordered the minimum amount-15.  I will be taking a Tom and 2-3 hens over to my brothers in the Okanogans about 30-40 miles south of your new digs. I plan on eating a bunch as it is a straight run purchase so I should have several extra toms.  I want to keep a Tom and 3-4 Hens so I can raise my own turkeys along with my own chickens.  As for the birds dressing out at about 20 lbs each that sounds about right for the medium sized turkeys like the Blue Blates, Red Bourban, Spanish Black, and Nagansatt.  They are rated as 14-23 lbs with the hens in the 14-18 and the toms in the 17-23 lb ranges.  I plan to roast 2 on Thanksgiving.  I'm more interested in getting a bird that will reporduce on its own and be of medium body size so I can handle them so myself. 

I bought some more Studs and Treated 2X4 for completing the chicken house and fence.  The loading of the 2X4's was easy, loading the 18 sheets of 7/16 OSB sheeting was a little harder.  Luckily one of the store employees noticed my cane and my limp and volunteered to help. 

Talked to the hatchery, wasn't happy with their response, too much making excuses and laying the blame on me although they did agree to refund the cost of the Joe Pyle Game hens.   While on the phone I asked about the turkey order and was advised that it was shipped yesterday so I get another call from the Post Office in the morning.  I got the 2nd brooder ready for the turkeys when they come.

After having the last Joe Pyle succumb along with 3 of the Jersey Giants I was down 15 chickens so that's why I bought  the Wayondottes.  Next year I'll buy the Dark Cornish (standard size) and I'll have all the breeds I want for starter stock on my own breed.  This fall I'll be butchering every thing over 2 years old.  That will leave me with the Light Brahmas, Wayondottes, and Jersey Giants.  I need all the Cornish to be hens so they will throw broad breasted chicks.  I'm aiming for a 8-12 lb broad breasted chicken and a Black bird with gold lacing or visa versa  I think there's a market for a broad breasted chicken in the 10-12 lb range for the cockerel..kind of a smaller turkey type bird.
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 08:09:38 PM »

Good Brian, you got some come back about the Joe Pyles. 

I need to know what I did wrong with my turkeys, I really need to know and I will find out.

You know my birds here.  I have Richard, the Bronze tom, Abigail and Sarah the bronze hens.  Well, I raised three of Abigails and Richard's offspring.  They were as big as Richard, and that is one honking big bird.  BUT.....these toms dressed out as 12 pounds, 14 pounds and 14 pounds, narry a one over that weight.  So.....WHERE DOES THE 20 pound bird come from.  I took my time, raised these turkeys until they were 7-1/2 months old before they were processed.  I am rather annoyed about the long time to raise them to not even get as big as I have read the heritage birds get to, and you corroborated that the toms get to be about 20 pounds.  WHAT's with me?

This is a picture of the tom's when they were all tempting the ladies to chose them.  They were big birds.  Richard is the biggest, oldest one, almost 2 years old now.  So, wanna tell me your thoughts on what I've done wrong to only get 14 pound heritage toms?  Have a most wonderful day in this great life, health.  Cindi

The two year old tom, Richard, is on the far right, the hen, Abigail is in the back.  These were fully mature birds, looking as big as their daddy.

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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 01:01:25 AM »

Belief it or not, but I can pretty well guess how much a turkey is going to dress out as by how it walks.  Birds that can walk like they were on tiptoe have small body to feather mass--less than 10 lbs, those that walk more or less normally--10-15 lbs, those that trudge will go 15-20 lbs, and the gobblers that are waddlers will go in excess of 20 lbs, the more pronounced the waddle the heavier the bird.

That biggest tom shows some Narraganset coloring so I doubt they were purebred bronze.  Narragansetts are a medium size turkey with weights in the 14-20 lb range.  The Blues are about the same size so I would say it is the breeding, or lack of it, that has limited the size development you were hoping for.  Any time you take a large animal or bird and cross it with a smaller animal or bird the ratio of sizes to the parents is something like:  Size of Large Parent: -/+ 10%, Size of smaller parent: 50-60%, and smaller than either parent: 30%.  If the Femal is of the larger breed and the Male the smaller of the 2, then you can reverse the same size and smaller ratios.  It has to do with how the genetics are transmitted between the sexes.

My turkeys arrived today, 15 rusty brown poults looking around like they were lost.  I decided to put them in with the chick since they were the same size and there was plenty of room in my brood (rusted out water trough).  In a week or so when they get a little bigger and some feathers on them I'll transfer them over to my intermediate (large chick/turkey) brooder.

My wife made me go to the doctor today because my cough was coming back.  I've had bronchitis and pneumonia so many times that if I get a cold I usually have bronchitis within 12 hours and pneumonia within 36 hours.  Wife wanted me to head this one off at the pass.  The Doc did his thing and handed me a prescription for Cipro.  Oh, well....  Wife made an appointment for me to get checked out for CPOD (Chronic Pulmonary Obstructive Disease) for next week due to how often I get bronchitis or pneumonia.  That's all I need, another disease to add to my growing repertoire, should have 30 by the time I'm 70 the rate I'm going.

Tomorrow I should get the concrete on the floor of the chicken coop (sedan, it has 4 doors) finished and 3 walls up (Mostly sunny forecast).  I've already built 2 of the walls and will build another while my helpers pour the concrete.  I now have it set up so I can build the walls in the garage (out of the rain) so I can work on the wall sections, and later the nest boxes and roosts, even if we can't work on the building itself or while they are working on it too.
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 11:05:51 AM »

Brian, your wealth of knowledge and genetics has intrigued me time and time again, I love that part of you (and the other knowledgeable parts of you too, you have helped me so many a times).

I really need to get into doing some studying on those genetic things.  To be knowledgeable is an important thing to me, I am on that quest for knowledge, just wish I had more time to study.....Genetics are an important part of life....I know now that the trait of the comb of the young birds will be after the daddy, smiling....that is one little thing I have learned...and of course the body characteristics come after the mother...just a couple of bits of trivia gained from your teachings, thank you.

I understand why now that the toms were so small.  Yes, there was a blue slate (Madeline) turkey in the mothering eggs last year, along with some of Abigail's eggs, not all the poults made it, only 3, hence such a mix of genetics. 

So you think the bronze is not purebred, that is too bad, the guy that I bought off of said that someone else told him that they thought it might be part Narraganset too....so much for the pure bloodlines, smiling.  A bit smaller turkey than 20 pounds is good for a family dinner for many anyways, that way we don't get sick of the taste of turkey.

You must be very careful of your cough, your health.  You are very fortunate to have that Wife that looks after you and encourages you to see the doctor when she feels you must have that need, good thing.  Take care, hope your malades remain below the number of 30, even when you are 70 years of age, smiling.  Have that wonderful, most awesome day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
oldenglish
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 12:31:33 PM »

Cindi/Brian

You guys might want to check out this blog, very interesting and he has some really good stuff on Turkeys.

http://ebeyfarm.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 09:19:00 PM »

Oh Brian.....that is awful about the stomping of the Joe Pyles.  Fourteen turkeys!!!  Are you nuts!!!  I am not impressed with the turkeys that I raised to 7 and a half months old.  Those heritage birds.  They were supposed to dress out at about 20 pounds (toms), but they were about 12 pound each (three of them, not impressed at all, must have done something wrong that they were so small).

YOu got a whole lotta Jersey Giants going on there.

I got a wack of 2 day old chicks a couple of weeks ago from the co-op, couldn't resist, all poulets, except for the buff orpingtons
13 barred rock poulets
one australorpe poulets
one silver laced wayandotte poulet
one speckeled sussex poulet
two buff orpingtons, poulet and cockeral

They are all supposed to be hens, but I am kind of wonderin'......

Have a wonderful day, life, great health.  Cindi


That's interesting, Cindi, I ended up with a BO roo, too, I wonder if it's harder to sex them or something?  Mine were supposed to be all pullets, too.  I wish they had been, I've had nothing but trouble with Stumpy, he's one nasty roo, I had a 'discussion' with him tonight, again, he lost and ran away from me, but I'm tired of it - I wish he'd just figure out he's going to lose every time.  I'm afraid I'm going to kill him someday - then again maybe I should just do that.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2009, 01:02:27 AM »

Quote
I've had nothing but trouble with Stumpy, he's one nasty roo, I had a 'discussion' with him tonight, again

I have grandkids so I have the same rules for the chickens that my grandparents did.  Any mean bird is Sunday dinner.  That takes care of the problem.  When I was a kid it was not unusual to hear of little kids losing and eye to an over aggressive rooster or tom.  My brother and I were tried by a tom turkey when I was 4 years old....how embarrassing.

Cindi: If you look at the flight feathers on that tom you will notice that they are out of "tune" with the rest of his feathering.  Those barred feathers are a Naggasanett trait.  Naggasansetts have both flight and tail feathers barred but otherwise look much like a bronze.  Any barred feathers on a turkey that doesn't include all large feathers indicates a cross breed with a Naggasanett.  A turkey with white flights and/or tail would indicate a cross with a Broubon Red whereas white feathers in a mottled fashion would indicate a cross with a Broad Breasted White, a Midget White, or Palm depending upon its size and stance as each variety has a different way of standing.  Crissing a BB Bronze with a Spanish Black, Rio Grande, or Wild Eastern, on the other hand, will produce a bird of type feathering and a bird about the size of the medium sized turkeys.
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