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Author Topic: Freezing temp for 1:1 syrup  (Read 1296 times)
Tyro
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« on: March 23, 2009, 09:05:31 AM »

Does anyone know what the freezing temperature is for 1:1 sugar syrup?  I expect that it is probably lower than 32F/0C, but don't know how low.  I need to get syrup on my hive (I use a hive top feeder) and don't want blocks of ice.  Additionally, might the BeeMax polystyrene feeder prevent freezing better than plastic feeders?
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gmcharlie
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 02:02:46 PM »

if its cold I would use pollen patties,  not syrup....  a hive top feeder is open on the ends,  and if they are in cluster they can't break cluster to get around and up.    the freeze point is probably around 30   but it won't matter as teh cluster (if its alive)  will keep it thawed...... BUT as I said,  they can't get to it..... they are in cluster.....  Kinda like you getting to the outhouse naked in a -30 blizzard ......

Pollen patties laid right on top the cluster solve the problem.  the cluster rotates around as the feed.
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Robo
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 02:48:53 PM »

I would guess it would need to be sub-zero outside for it to freeze by the time you figured in the insulation value and heat from the cluster.   

I would suggest inverted jar or sugar candy as the cluster can feed continuously from them

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/feeder-compare/
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cundald
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 03:46:07 PM »

Does anyone know what the freezing temperature is for 1:1 sugar syrup?  I expect that it is probably lower than 32F/0C, but don't know how low.  I need to get syrup on my hive (I use a hive top feeder) and don't want blocks of ice.  Additionally, might the BeeMax polystyrene feeder prevent freezing better than plastic feeders?

If I've done the calculation corectly the freezing point for 1:1 is  22.22F/-5.43C
                                                                              2:1 is  12.44/-10.84C

To cold for the bees to break cluster.

cundald
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 04:03:09 PM »

pollen patties won't do any good.  put some dry sugar on newspaper over the frames, or on the inner cover.  if your area is dry, lightly spray the sugar with some water to moisten it a bit.  you don't want syrup in the hive when it's that cold.  it just makes it wet in there.  they won't take it cold anyway.  they'll use the dry sugar any time they can break and go to it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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gmcharlie
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 05:08:25 PM »

pollen patties won't do any good.  put some dry sugar on newspaper over the frames, or on the inner cover.  if your area is dry, lightly spray the sugar with some water to moisten it a bit.  you don't want syrup in the hive when it's that cold.  it just makes it wet in there.  they won't take it cold anyway.  they'll use the dry sugar any time they can break and go to it.

Why would you say pollen patties won't work?Huh
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 05:18:17 PM »

the bees use the patties for brood rearing.  if you are trying to feed the workers so that your hive doesn't starve, you need the syrup, or sugar.  if you are doing both, you need both.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
homer
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 05:29:32 PM »

the bees use the patties for brood rearing.  if you are trying to feed the workers so that your hive doesn't starve, you need the syrup, or sugar.  if you are doing both, you need both.

However, it is very likely that at this time of year, even in the really cold climates, the bees are already starting to rear at least a little brood!  A pollen patty is only a few bucks.  If they need it they will use it, if not it's no big loss.  I'm in a very cold climate in Northern Utah and my bees have been rearing brood for over a month now, in small clusters.  We've had a few days in the mid to upper 40's but most are around mid 30's.  They're even taking syrup quite nicely and it hasn't been a problem yet with excessive moisture.
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gmcharlie
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 05:56:52 PM »

the bees use the patties for brood rearing.  if you are trying to feed the workers so that your hive doesn't starve, you need the syrup, or sugar.  if you are doing both, you need both.

Noted your thoughts......   Since I have been useing patties on top the cluster  (usualy start in jan)  My overwinter rate is about 95% for the last 5 years.  (20 hive average per winter) Most hives I lose are due to mice and skunks.....

I use protien in Jan  right on top the cluster (as well as moving honey if I can)  and pollen feb 1 and forward.  still have pollen on a cpl (they are still takeing it) of smaller hives.     
 I haven't used dry sugar on the cluster as it falls to the bottom.  might work on a top cover but if its below freezing the same problem with them moving around to get it....  Candy board would be great!  I agree.....    Personaly its easier to buy patties (and cheaper by my math)  than to make candy board.....  I haven't seen anyplace to buy candyboard yet.....  ( I would probaly buy some if I could...)

Your objection is duly noted kathy.......thanks for the thought  I use a different method myself though.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 06:36:32 PM »

Quote
the bees are already starting to rear at least a little brood!

mine also and i put pollen patties on in Feb.  however, if he's worried about starvation, it's not pollen patties he needs.

i have fed syrup early also, but used bucket feeders and took them off at night.  to labor intensive!  the dry sugar stays on all winter.  i put mine on the inner cover because it's so wet here and it help absorb some moisture.  it's also easy to replace without opening the whole hive.  others here use the newspaper method.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Tyro
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 11:43:49 PM »

We have been having temps in the high 40's to low 60's the past week or so.  The bees seem to be breaking cluster in the day (flying, taking cleansing flights, etc.) and then clustering up at night (temps drop into the low 30's/high 20's).  Right now, we are having a blizzard, so the point is moot - but under those conditions, I was hoping that bees could be fed syrup without it freezing. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 12:29:46 AM »

sure if the temps during the day are that warm, you can feed.  one easy way to do it and not worry about freezing is to feed away from the hives.  i use 1 gallon quail waterers with rocks in the dish.  put them in the sun and the bees will take the syrup when they fly.  it probably won't freeze over night, but even if it gets pretty chilly, the sun will warm it in the morning.  if you must feed in the hive, it's probably ok with warm days.  they syrup shouldn't freeze but it may not warm up as quickly in the morning. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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