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Author Topic: can capped brood chill?  (Read 6030 times)

Offline homer

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Re: can capped brood chill?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2009, 07:12:53 PM »
>This is mis-characterized for the question at hand.

I don't think so.  Marla's point was that they would SURVIVE the dry ice freezing and eventually emerge.

Ok, lets start with this one first. You made a point, and a clear one at that, they survived dry ice freezing. You said it.

Now, it is tweaked a bit to include "would be expected to freeze them".

Marla made the comments to illustrate the difficulties that one could expect in freezing with dry ice. That it was not a reliable method. Then you stated that bees would survive dry ice freezing as stated above. Yes, they survived the process, because as Marla pointed out, that it's difficult to achieve the freezing with dry ice. That is why the change to liquid nitrogen.

"Survive the dry ice freezing" is not correct. They did not survive dry ice freezing. It never happened. They survived the process, that was flawed, and was the reasoning of switching to liquid nitrogen, and the bases of her comment.

I challenge anyone to show a study, research, or data that shows bees come back and emerging after actually freezing.

Okay, so they didn't actually get "frozen".  But I'm sure that in the process of trying to freeze them they got to a very low temperature and some of them actually survived the low temperatures and emerged.  I think MB's point is well taken, that capped brood is much more able to withstand very cold temperatures then uncapped brood.  I think that was the whole point of his mention of Marla's research.

Offline BjornBee

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Re: can capped brood chill?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2009, 08:32:26 PM »
>This is mis-characterized for the question at hand.

I don't think so.  Marla's point was that they would SURVIVE the dry ice freezing and eventually emerge.

Ok, lets start with this one first. You made a point, and a clear one at that, they survived dry ice freezing. You said it.

Now, it is tweaked a bit to include "would be expected to freeze them".

Marla made the comments to illustrate the difficulties that one could expect in freezing with dry ice. That it was not a reliable method. Then you stated that bees would survive dry ice freezing as stated above. Yes, they survived the process, because as Marla pointed out, that it's difficult to achieve the freezing with dry ice. That is why the change to liquid nitrogen.

"Survive the dry ice freezing" is not correct. They did not survive dry ice freezing. It never happened. They survived the process, that was flawed, and was the reasoning of switching to liquid nitrogen, and the bases of her comment.

I challenge anyone to show a study, research, or data that shows bees come back and emerging after actually freezing.

Okay, so they didn't actually get "frozen".  But I'm sure that in the process of trying to freeze them they got to a very low temperature and some of them actually survived the low temperatures and emerged.  I think MB's point is well taken, that capped brood is much more able to withstand very cold temperatures then uncapped brood.  I think that was the whole point of his mention of Marla's research.

Where does Marla point out that capped brood survive lower temps than uncapped.  I'm not even sure this was a point being discussed.  :?

I can see that capped cells would be harder to freeze than uncapped cell. That would be a given. But now your saying that the brood can survive or handle lower temps being sealed as compared to the same temps being applied to uncapped cells.  :?

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