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Author Topic: I don't think it's CCD  (Read 1751 times)
Understudy
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« on: March 17, 2009, 10:06:17 PM »

http://www.takepart.com/blog/2009/03/11/colony-collapse-in-my-backyard/

I think it may be chemicals. Let me know what you think.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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BjornBee
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 08:00:40 AM »

To determine whether it is or not, we need to know exactly what CCD is?

Go ahead...I'm listening.... grin
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 09:46:49 AM »

To determine whether it is or not, we need to know exactly what CCD is?

Go ahead...I'm listening.... grin

You are correct.

The symptoms attributed to CCD currently are these.
    * Collapsed colonies
         1. complete absence of adult bees in colonies, with few or no dead bees in or around colonies,
         2. the presence of capped brood, and
         3. the presence of food stores (both honey and bee bread) that are not robbed by other bees or typical colony pests (small hive beetle, wax moths, etc.). If robbed, the robbing is delayed by a number of days.

    * Collapsing colonies
         1. an insufficient number of bees to maintain the amount of brood in the colony,
         2. the workforce is composed largely of younger adult bees,
         3. the queen is present, and
         4. the cluster is reluctant to consume food provided to them by the beekeeper.

Cited from Dr. Ellis report. http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/pestalert/Colony_Collapse_Disorder.htm

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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BjornBee
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 10:26:21 AM »

Brendhan,
Thank you.

I'll select the first item to throw in my thoughts. "Few or no bees in or around the colonies"

I have serious problems with that. Much of the noted CCD has been observed in the southern states where bees have ample opportunity to leave the hive if they are sick. Yes, bees if they can, will abandon their hives.

CCD is also a fall event for the most part. And in colder areas of the north, we may very well be seeing CCD, but beekeepers inspecting after the colony dies (finished off by freezing) may see dead bees on the bottom board, etc., as bees did not leave the hive due to cold temps. So it is dismissed as NOT CCD because bees are found in great numbers in the hive.

I think making a blanket statement, that CCD has signs such as no bees in the hives, a little misleading, and wrong.

And I also do not buy into the whole "not robbed out" comments. I have many dead hives that are not robbed out due to a whole host of things. If you have been paying attention from day one, they initially said bees would not rob for weeks. And now that timeframe has been widdled down to a "few days". I stated from day one, that robbing may not of been seen in these yards due to a flow, not any healthy colonies to care about robbing, etc. There are times I can put out a frame of honey in my healthy yards and bees will ignore it for days. Now I see "If robbed, it is delayed for a number of days".


Anyways....I know these are not your statements. The way things were quickly placed on a list and cast in stone, then repeated so often that it is mere fact, simply changes over time. And for some beekeepers such as in the north, I state they may very well have CCD but not have the signs so outlined by others, then dismissed.

I do think the first guy in the original post has pesticide issues. But since half of all beekeepers think CCD is chemical related...i guess saying he has CCD is not that far off... grin
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Understudy
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 11:12:06 AM »

Brendhan,
Thank you.

I'll select the first item to throw in my thoughts. "Few or no bees in or around the colonies"

I have serious problems with that. Much of the noted CCD has been observed in the southern states where bees have ample opportunity to leave the hive if they are sick. Yes, bees if they can, will abandon their hives.

CCD is also a fall event for the most part. And in colder areas of the north, we may very well be seeing CCD, but beekeepers inspecting after the colony dies (finished off by freezing) may see dead bees on the bottom board, etc., as bees did not leave the hive due to cold temps. So it is dismissed as NOT CCD because bees are found in great numbers in the hive.

I think making a blanket statement, that CCD has signs such as no bees in the hives, a little misleading, and wrong.

And I also do not buy into the whole "not robbed out" comments. I have many dead hives that are not robbed out due to a whole host of things. If you have been paying attention from day one, they initially said bees would not rob for weeks. And now that timeframe has been widdled down to a "few days". I stated from day one, that robbing may not of been seen in these yards due to a flow, not any healthy colonies to care about robbing, etc. There are times I can put out a frame of honey in my healthy yards and bees will ignore it for days. Now I see "If robbed, it is delayed for a number of days".


Anyways....I know these are not your statements. The way things were quickly placed on a list and cast in stone, then repeated so often that it is mere fact, simply changes over time. And for some beekeepers such as in the north, I state they may very well have CCD but not have the signs so outlined by others, then dismissed.

I do think the first guy in the original post has pesticide issues. But since half of all beekeepers think CCD is chemical related...i guess saying he has CCD is not that far off... grin

And in my layman opinion I would not discount pesticides or fertilizers as a factor but the research currently doesn't agree with me. According to the research CCD hives dwindle down to a lowest level with a queen still in the hive. Honeybees will not abscond unless the queen leaves. That is suppose to be one of the issues with CCD. Also a hove dwindles down over a period of weeks. In the case of the original article it was decimated rather quickly. Usually a twitching painful death is due to being coated in or ingesting chemicals within a very recent period of time.

In regards to how I feel chemicals currently have an effect in relation to CCD. Simply put the wax. Current wax foundation contains chemicals at levels that are not healthy for bees. It's not enough to kill them right off but that with the poor genetic selection that exists contributes to a compromised immune system. This plus the stress of being hauled from one side of the country to the other on a regular basis in my opinion is contributing to the factors that I believe may be at the root of the CCD issue. Now when all is said and done. I may completely wrong and I am cool with that. Also no one gave me millions to research it. So it is worth about as much as I received in funding which is none.  Smiley

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 01:21:33 PM »

Well, I agree with Kim Flottum's comments on there.  Not sure of the location, but considering the color of the grass, I'd theorize that the first hatch of the year, or perhaps the nurse bees from this spring are just doing orientation flights and finding out they can't.

T-mites?

Of course if it were nosema ceranae, isn't that a component of CCD too?
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Rick
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 07:06:42 PM »

Well, I agree with Kim Flottum's comments on there.  Not sure of the location, but considering the color of the grass, I'd theorize that the first hatch of the year, or perhaps the nurse bees from this spring are just doing orientation flights and finding out they can't.

T-mites?

Of course if it were nosema ceranae, isn't that a component of CCD too?

When it comes to CCD nothing except cell phone towers and GMO is out of bounds.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible
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