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Offline Irwin

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Have you heard about this
« on: March 17, 2009, 08:02:05 AM »
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Subject: Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009



You  might want to send this to all your hunting  buddies family &
friends. Nobody  can sell any ammunition after June  30, 2009 It  has
already started.... Ammunition  Accountability Legislation Remember
how  Obama said that he wasn't going to take your  guns?  Well, it
seems that his allies  in the anti-gun world have no problem with
taking your ammo! The  bill 20 that is being pushed in 18 states
(including Illinois and Indiana )  requires all ammunition to be
encoded by the  manufacture a data base of all ammunition  sales. So
they will know how much you buy and  what calibers. Nobody  can sell
any ammunition after June  30, 2009 unless the  ammunition is coded.
Any  privately held uncoded ammunition must be  destroyed by July 1,
2011.  (Including hand  loaded ammo.) They  will also charge a .05
cent tax on every round  so every box of ammo you buy will go up at
least $2.50 or more! If  they can deprive you of ammo they do not
need to take your gun! This legislation  is currently pending in 18
states:  Alabama  , Arizona ,  California , Connecticut ,  Hawaii ,
Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky ,  Maryland ,  Mississippi , Missouri ,
New  Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode Island  ,  South
Carolina , Tennessee , and  Washington .. Send  to your friends in
these states AND fight  to dissolve this BILL!! To  find more about
the anti-gun group that is  sponsoring this legislation and the
specific legislation for each state,  go to:

http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
 
Fight organized crime!  Re-elect no one.

Offline reinbeau

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 08:16:13 AM »
I don't think this has pased, it's been killed in 11 states so far, I believe, hubby knows more.

- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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Offline Robo

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 10:20:16 AM »
Coast to Coast AM had a guy talking about the current shortage of ammo throughout the US right now.   I haven't bought any in a while,  but it was amazing the people calling in from all over the country and their experience of how the shelves are so bare.

Perhaps just people stocking up or some government conspiricy :sheeple:

I guess obama was actually voted gun salesman of the year last year by gun dealers association. :lau:
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Online kathyp

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 11:20:09 AM »
this has been kicking around for a bit.  so far, it has not gone through, but give it time.  it's much easier to convince people to track/control ammo, than to get rid of guns. 

last time i bought ammo, the store only had one box of 9mm left and no 357.  i went the day the sale started and they were pretty much wiped out.  i also used cash  ;)  if you have older guns, you don't want them tracked back to you by the ammo you buy.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 02:56:40 PM by kathyp »
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline reinbeau

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 02:29:04 PM »
We're all set.

- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 01:16:04 AM »
Buy Ammo?

Trying ordering some through Sportmen's Guide or Cheaper Than Dirt....2-3 month back log even on common calibers and the more obscure the cartridge the harder it is to get.

Vist your local sporting goods store, the shelves of ammunition are almost bare.

Stores are getting in ammunition for ssles and if they put it out the night before it is gone by the time the ad circular hits the street.

Handguns and AR15-16 style rifles are going almost as fast.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Online kathyp

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 02:30:30 AM »
anything that holds more than 10 rounds also.  when the assault weapons ban goes back in, we'll be down to under 10 rounds again. my thumb gets sore reloading.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline doak

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 12:39:06 AM »
The place where I buy most of my ready made ammo said the 308 and 7.62x39 was hard to  get right now. I made a run on Wally world last year when the 308 was $12+ a 20 rd. box.
I stocked on it. doak

Offline mick

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 07:26:13 AM »
From my semi ignorant view point, 14,000k away, I can tell you two things.

1. If I was a gun dealer/maker, ammo dealer/maker, a shortage of both until the new laws are decided would clear my stocks, drive prices through the roof, make me rich so I can relax until the crisis has passed and I know where I stand.

2. It would benefit me greatly if I could start/spread such a rumour.

Last time I looked, there was about 6 guns registered for every man woman and child in the US. Id say three times that for unregistered stuff.

Theres blokes with AKs, 50 cals, H&Ks, Sniper rifles, anti tank weapons, mines, grenades, you name it. Theres even blokes with tanks over there. I wouldnt be surprised if there were good ole boys with fighter jets that thay have ammo for (in case of emergency). Very resourceful those blokes you got there.
So if the Govt of the US ever wanted to disarm its Citizens, it would be total Civil War. The worst sci fi movie come to life. Iraq in Every town.

Then again, arms could end up fracturing the US one day. Back to the old days of North and South. Those States with arms, those without, protected by half the worlds armies.

The real challenge, task at hand, is to remove guns from criminals and stop the illegal supply.

No point doing anything until the lunatics are disarmed. To do this is not impossible.

1. Restrict the sale of arms to lunatics, no matter how much it costs to reference check them. "Come back in two weeks aint enough".

2. Wholesale stop and search of vehicles and persons, open slather on searching any home for firearms. Close down entire blocks, cities, towns and search every buildiing, drain, hole and bush for weapons and destroy them.

3. Offer twice the going rate for guns forfeited to police.

4. Absolute control by the State of all arms manufacturing, importing and exporting.

5. a State sanctioned list of allowable firearms. One sanctioned firearm to be provided to any person passing licensing regulations, free of charge and by the State.

6. a ban on all weapons and ammo that have greater firepower than Police/Military.

7. 3,6, 12 monthly character checks for the life of your gun permit.

8. The total regulation of the sale of ammo, individual markings on shell casings. All ammo to be accounted for each month, used or not. Total ban on home manufacturing of ammo and the sale of tools to do such. (aha, if this is in the planning already, some of my other ideas will be too, I know how these people think. Hold your friends close and your enemies closer grasshopper).

9. The right to search and seize, without notice or reason, for firearms and ammo.

10. Life in Jail for possessing, using, supplying unlicensed ammo and or arms. Mandatory death Penalty, without the right of appeal, for any person using a firearm to commit a crime. (OK,I was a bit harsh, appeal, then shot at dawn).

Now this would cost trillions, but employ millions. Ive seen trillions handed out to failed companys of late for no return, so money is not an issue for the US, and never will be domestically.

I do admire the fighting spirit of you all, I think you know that by now. "From my cold dead hands" is not such a bad idea. History teaches us that rights lost are seldom won back.

I do also know, that local scum, knocking each other off is not necessarily such a bad thing. I also know that innocent people get shot every day. Lots of kids in sheds, fooling around.

To put any dent in the use of illegal arms in your GREAT NATION you would have to use such extremes measures as I have outlined above.

But just remember, the only person who benefits by an ammo shortage, is the bloke thats doing the selling. There could never be such a shortage in actuality, YOUVE ALL GOT TOO MUCH HIDDEN AWAY ALREADY!

I know one beekeeper, ehem, who will remain nameless, has more guns on him than flies! Theres also some lovely ladies in here that pack a 6 shooter before they pack their lippy!

Now I know many of you will say what the pkj*&^% would he know? True, true, but I like to test the waters.

Dont forget, theres gunna be 300,000 people trained to search and destroy out of work in a couple of years. I wouldnt be at all surprised if some of them were used by the Govt, ipso facto against the People, in an attempt to quell the tide of illegal arms flowing in the US.

The only other long term solution is worse than the above. It involves gated communities, private security, road blocks, helicopter patrols, armed escorts etc. Hardly a realistic alternative.

Something will change, thats a certain. Restricting gun ownership under Obama is as sure as getting Saddam was under GWB.

Before this year is out, there will be a ban on full autos in the US. I bet both on it!

When I was about 10, in the 70s,  it was nothing to see a man/boy in the street with a rifle on his shoulder. "He has been hunting" people would say. Blokes used to take the 12 guage, .22 or 303 on the train to go shooting. NO one blinked an eyelid. No one worried about being shot, no one was, intentionally. Whole trainloads, hundreds of blokes, thousands of rounds, thousands of bottles of beer. No one ever got shot on a train.

Then one day, it seemed like it was overnight,the Government changes, the greenies, wowsers and whingers took control. Fools with letters after their names got heard and listened to. Guns were gone. Evil things.

It was the anti Vietnam lot taking out revenge and they got their way. Shooting is cruel, ducks have feelings, little Johnny is aggressive, take away his cap gun, and it followed through to real guns. It happened in a year or two.

Whilst I dont necessarily agree that its handy to have a few 30 cals locked and cocked in the shed, bedroom or lounge, I do agree that people are entitled to have the means to defend themselves in their particular environment.

Sorry for the ramble.










« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 07:51:18 AM by mick »

Offline buzzbee

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 11:35:35 AM »
Excerpts of the founding fathers:

    *  "Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
      -- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

    * "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
      -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188
"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
--Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

" ... to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
-- Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836

    * And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress ... to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.... "
      --Samuel Adams

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. a military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
--Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

And people please remember Congress can not pass laws changing any provisions of the Constitution.The revisionists may like you to think that. changing the Constitution is a power reserved to the states. Any changes are required to be passed by two thirds of the state legislatures.Don't let the pepople in power fool you they are here to rule you. They are here to work for you. The citizenry is their employer,so often people forget that we are not a Monarchy!!

Offline TwT

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 12:04:32 PM »
they are welcome to come and get my guns anytime, it will be a heavy price they will have to pay to get them because they will not like the end of the gun they will get first  :evil: . That would be suicide to try to disarm America, people would band together because everyone has them and I would say 90%-100% wouldn't give them up without a fight. I dont think it would ever get that for, and the fights not over about the sneaky bill they pass or try to pass, the NRA IS STRONG AND AFTER THINGS LIKE THIS THEY WILL PROBABLY GET STRONGER!!!! Oh and remember the NRA has Insurance companies backing them because the price they pay for deer collisions  ;) .....

And on the subject of the Constitution, our Government thinks the are above following it, seems they have been going against it for years and still trying. until a revolution or something like that happens they will continue....
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 12:15:18 PM »


And on the subject of the Constitution, our Government thinks the are above following it, seems they have been going against it for years and still trying. until a revolution or something like that happens they will continue....

Which is exactly why our founding fathers thought it important to keep arms.they found it wise that the people do not become enslaved by their own government.

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 12:18:15 PM »
Mick,

If anyone tried even a small fraction of what you suggest, the revolution would start.  :shock:
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Offline reinbeau

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 01:23:57 PM »
And there would be many revolters, from unexpected sources.

- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 02:01:45 PM »
By the way Irwin,Thanks for the post. i did not here about this,but promptly wrote my state representative about the matter.He is not cosponsoring the bill!

Online kathyp

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 06:23:42 PM »
mick, most of what you suggest would be unconstitutional. that may not be a problem for this congress.  they seem bent on tossing the thing in the trash.  for all the complaints about the last, no one seems to upset that much of what this congress/president have already done, is unconstitutional. 

other things you suggest are already done.  enforcement of the existing laws is the key, not more and more restrictive laws. 

it occurs to me that we talk about a revolt, but for what are we waiting?  will we practice defensive revolting, as we practiced defensive war?  that didn't work out to well.  if we wait until they are done legislatively destroying us, it will be to late.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 07:47:40 PM »
What we are waiting on is for those people that are capable of organizing to step up and organize...
First protest, then civil unrest, then what ever.
But.... Everybody wants to do it through the vote.  :roll:
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Online kathyp

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 08:37:01 PM »
here is one thing coming up.

http://www.teapartyday.com/

it is a statement made stronger by numbers.  renew your NRA membership or join...even if it's not  your thing, numbers are important.  contact the white house

http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/

call, don't write.  they pay attention to calls.  call your representative.  call your senators. 

PAY ATTENTION TO LOCAL POLITICS!!!!   they are important.

if you are not spurred to action yet, how many articles like this will it take?  how far with we allow the federal government to go?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/us/politics/22regulate.html
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 09:10:06 PM »
here is one thing coming up.
http://www.teapartyday.com/

That is what I am talking about. Now if it can get announced on local news stations would be great.
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Online kathyp

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Re: Have you heard about this
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 09:13:24 PM »
find out if there is something local.  call your news stations and give them the info and web site.  also, local talk radio shows.  the word is getting out in spite of the fact that the MSM is ignoring it.  there have already been a number of large (1000's of people) tea parties, but coverage has been small.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

 

anything