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Author Topic: Question - ghosts, Guardian Angels?  (Read 9716 times)
Lesli
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« on: February 18, 2005, 11:32:40 PM »

I'm pretty much agnostic about the supernatural. I've never experienced it, but I won't be disrespectful to those who have. I assume that most people are telling the truth about their experiences.

Why do you think that "ghosts" (however you define them) appear to some and not others? Or, if the topic is angels or similar, why are some people saved from harm and not others?
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 12:16:12 AM »

Well - personally I don't believe in "ghosts" like other people do. I used to, but don't anymore. Most people believe ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that are for some reason stuck on the earth. But now I think they're "demons" or "evil spirits" - just part of my understanding of the bible and what it says about these types of things. I never had a "ghost" type experience until after I was saved around 9 years old. I think it was satan's way of just trying to confuse me, mess me up, and try to get me away from following after God. I think if I had never sought after God, I probably wouldn't have ever had any of those experiences. Satan wouldn't have had to bug me in any way, cause it would have been like he'd won - if I never knew God.

Anyway - my beliefs on the other thing you mentioned. I can't say I have an absolute answer, but this is just what I think is possible.

Since I believe these are angels - and angels "work" for God - then the people helped would most likely be people that first believe in God. Right? I have a belief that God sees us as we are in the END. He sees us now, but His main "picture" of us is what we are in the future. So I'm sure there are people that are helped by angels that don't know God or don't believe in God at the time of help - but God knows that they will at a later time. (anyway) It seems to me that most of the people helped are those that have prayed for protection - and that protection comes from angels. I'm not so sure about the idea of people having specific guardian angels for themselves. My understanding of the bible is that I can request to have many angels go to work for me on a matter. That since I'm one of God's adopted children, I can have the angels work for me just as God would ask them to work.

I don't claim to understand everything (or anything really) - but it's my "best guess" from what I read in the bible. So mabye the people that don't get help from angels, have just never asked for that help. Or if a bad thing happens to a person that HAS asked for protection, maybe what they think is bad, really isn't - but has a purpose instead. Heck - my husband got cancer (found in 4th stage, given a very short time to live, and was miraculously healed by God), and that cancer was one of the best things that ever happened to us.

Beth
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 12:30:51 PM »

Lesli:

First, I know Beth always loves to hear my "Vibrating magnetic Energy Pool of Positive and negative Motion" theories, but here comes another one.

I believe that all energy, as well as religions, as well as astrology, music, whale sounds, Nascar race cars, jets, and the pull of planets by their suns all interact in this giant ballet of weightless energy (something near but not quite called String Theory) and whether it is AFTER we leave the body or before, we have conscience energy that is MORE related to the COLLECTIVE UNIVERSAL CONSCIENCE than we are in the physical body.

Someday when we all evolve (sorry Beth) we will find that defining line between conscience and body and when that happens we will begin the ultimate voyage - the journey to universal awareness.

You can call this finding God (any religion's God will do) or ultimate peace or obtaining and melding into complete understanding of all that there is, or ever was. It is literally being part of the magnetic pulls that attract and repell all objects throughout the Universe, placing things where they are and rotating them like a giro so that they stay there until a greater force passes its way and moves it on with the slightest of energy.

So what does that have to do with ghosts, or guardian angels, etc..

Well. The STUFF we are made of is part of a collective of stuff that we are made of. Lets say like a sand castle is made up of sand - it is only a castle becase it is shaped like one - a recognizable shape to us, created by our experiences and visible to us because it is within the light spectrum which we can see.

Take away the shape and it is just sand, we see no castle - but in thought, the castle is still there - just shaped in a way we no longer can comprehend as a castle.

When we pass on (I believe) and even when we are here (which starts to lose some people - Beths already in her car driving to church to pray for me  shocked  ) Our conscience creatures, our TRUE BEINGS are seen by our physical appearance - rarely for the beautiful being that is housed in this shell of a body we travel around in like a hermit crab.

But our conscience is able to leave the body, float and travel about without the restrictions of the body. It can travel threw time and space and move about is seemingly endless experiences in just a blink of the eye - because time is NOT a factor in the conscience world - only in the physical.

We have Oras and energy that reflects our conscienceness - many people call it karma, which for general speak will do. This engergy is powerful stuff concidaring it is effected by Gravity only - this single particle that the string theorists keep having trouble adding to their mathamatical equations. But I believe the reason GRAVITY only plays a part in the theory SOME of the time is because it comes into play ONLY WHEN the conscience energy is INTERACTING with the physical energy. When on its own - the conscience energy has nothing to do with gravity.

So, we attract like energy NOT opposite energy than our own - Magnets or better put GRAVITY requires opposite energy to attract. But conscienceness is like a tumbleweed gathering LIKE material as it travels along.

As we go through life the outer shell often dictates our attitude: we ache and work hard, deal with stress and death in our families - all these things wear down at our bodies and it spills over into conscienceness, often changing the purer spirit that we start out as. Lifes trash seeps through us like worms through the Earth - leaving us with holes that make us more and more vulnerable to change.

The good news though is our conscienceness is its own being - capable of independent thought (actually our conscience being does all of our thinking, but when attached to the body it is SWAYED be the health and pain and fear that HARM to the body that is has experienced and the SUBCONSCIENCE experiences can persuede the conscience to make poor decisions - on its own though, the conscience can make NO wrong decisions, it only reacts to the enviroment and all the energy that surrounds it.

Okay, I'm still NOT at the point. But I hope you see that since we are surrounded by like energy, and like energy often has reasons for being LIKE energy - it is often the conscienceness of past family members, other conscience beings and random similar energy which has collected in a localized pool of like energy.

Image (of all things) a tiedye teeshirt - in the random looking pattern we see pools or colors that are grouped together - other pools of similar colors, but of other shapes are found elsewhere in the pattern. But these shapes not random in the tiedye, no more than they are in the vastness of the Universe.

Planets circle suns governed by their mass and the the mass of other planets that also revolve around that sun. That solar system is spaced according to its mass relative to other solar systems and they form a gallaxy. Gallaxies are located by their mass in relationships to other gallaxies to form our Universe.

Energy of conscienceness is different AGAIN because it is NOT effected by gravity - with the exception that the person with an apparent guardian angel or (if you choose "luck") has "LIKE ENERGY" working around it - helping a strong conscience being more than helping one with a weak conscience being.  Again, a large tumbleweed gathers more material than a small one.

We all have conscience beings - there is no exception. Some are natural strong and the person has GREAT understanding of its existance - while other people may have even greater conscience energy with NO understanding of it. We have had enlightened people throughout history of all religions and of NO religions.

People who are lucky in "life's close calls" or seem to have an angel on their shoulder often do - I might not call it an angel, where Beth would but I do believe we are talking about the same exact thing. These LUCKY PEOPLE who seemingly have "beat the odds" are indeed blessed to have an abundant amount of energy working in their behalf - although the energy has to deal with gravity, which PURE ENERGY has little experience dealing with - if it had, then no harm would ever come to that person, the math would just work always in their favor.

But in a split second crisis situation, a car accident or any trama, energy (which has all the time in the world, because it isn't governed by time) is thrown the gravity curve and "gravity which works on the physical body" has an effect on what the conscience eneregy is capable of doing. Imagine trying to fly a commercial plane with no experience and literally no way to place hands on the controls anyway. So energy effects the luck factor, but isn't capable of solving all situations - it does though have effect. Again, I believe that it does NOT "Think" it just reacts and makes a change in the outcome. I think once we JOIN the universal energy (through dealth when no chance of returning to the body exists) then we are no longer individuals, but a drop in the great cosmic pool of like energies. Being attracted to where we are suppose to be and back into the most natural form possible, free of the restrictions of the body.

That being said, is their conscience thought AFTER death or are we just energy in the Universe - I honestly don't know. I do know we are conscience though during out of body experience, but there is a physical body to return to - the collective thoughts of the LIFE are retained and travel outside the body during OBE, but is that EXACTLY the same as when we die? I would hope that our energy is indeed entered into the great cosmic pool and ALSO that our conscience being has its thoughts in tact and able to move through the Universe as it can during OBE - but that is something that no one knows for sure. I know in my mind that THIS is not the end of our voyage, just a stop over to gather experiences, but what happens after our energy leaves our bodies and moves on, I'm not sure if WE retain those experiences, pass them on to God or the pool of energy or any number of other possibilities.

I think Jesus was a VERY INSIGHTFUL MAN, the hub of conscience energy. Literally the Son of God. My belief in God as a man on a throne though is more parable than reality. More like the stars in the sky as seen by the sailor as Gods or other figures to help them steer the night over open waters.

I think of God as the Universe as a whole and in its entirety. Everyone and everything is a part of God. Conscience beings are vast and plentiful in this Universe and each is a part of the great totality that is the Universe.

So, to say it in one sentence: I think people who have guardian angels are people whos conscienceness is very strong and attuned to the Universe.

Well, at least I kept my answer short for a change  rolleyes  I didn't think it neccessary to elaborate  shocked
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 08:31:48 PM »

I always say that the definition of an agnostic or atheist is someone who has never had the opportunity to die and live to tell about it.
If you've ever had that opportunity you'll never doubt your own existence or the existence of God, EVER.  It becomes a certainty.

I have a guardian angel, I don't known his name but I do recognize the sound of his voice.  My first encounter with him was the summer I turned 6.  We had moved to a house that had inside plumbing (great improvement) for the 1st time and I had to go bad, really bad, the hold onto it and tie it knots type of really bad.  When You entered the farm house from the back porch the wood cook stove was on the right side of the door and the sink and handpump were on the left side of the door. 

It was canning season and the lady we rented the farm from was canning in the kitchen (we shared the house, they lived downstairs and we lived upstairs).  I ran up to the back door and grabbed a-hold of the knob.  As my hand touched to brass I heard a loud urgent voice inside my ear call my name, "Brian."  I yelled, "What?" and looked around to see my father going into the barn to get the milking machines ready and my mother and my older brother going down the lane to bring up the cows from pasture for milking.

I reached for the knob a second time with the exact same results.  This time when I looked around there was no one in sight.  I then opened the door.  Mrs. Chilcoat was standing at the sink, large canning kettle of hot water resting on its lip, tears in her eyes.  She said, "I hear you run up on the porch just as I had this hot kettle in front of the door and I prayed to God you'd stop, otherwise you'd have been scrawled to death."

Something like that makes a big impression on a 6 year-old kid.  The thing is that I've had words with my guardian angel a batch of times since that day.  Each time I heeded him I was saved from serious injury, the times I tried to pretend he was a figment of my imagination I got seriously hurt.  3 times he saved me from getting hit by lightening, twice from car accidents, and at least once from being shot.  There are other times beside.

Every once-in-a-while he pops into my head with instructions, or if you prefer, prophecies and visions of things to come.  He is the reason I'm working so hard to make my homestead as self-sufficient as possible because we are due for some very hard time in the future and those who haven't or don't take the time to reestablish contact with the land and prepare for every conceivable disaster, natural or man made, will be hard put to survive.

I am what the Chinook and Salish Indians of the PNW would call a KeeLally, a shaman or witch doctor.  (Witch doctor is a misnomer).
I have talked to those who were still to come (3 of my grandchildren were arguing over who got to come as the twins and asked me to settle the argument) and those who've departed.  I can't attended a funeral without seeing the dearly departed anymore (Yes, you're supposed to attended your own funeral).  The only time I haven't seen the departed was when the person departed under tragic circumstances and got lost such as when a victim or a murder or suicide.

Each of Us existed before we came to earth and will continue to exist after we die.  A person without their body has a brilliance above that of the noonday sun.  Aura's tell of a persons mood and even their sanity.  The Aura's of insane people are fractured, like looking at a Kaleidoscope.

John, I hate to bust your bubble your intelligence is individual, not collective.  Spirits communicate by telepathy or for intense communication they touch each other and other person can experience everything the teller is saying....they literally share the experience (no misunderstandings that way).

I'll stop my tirade for the moment.  I'll probably have more later.
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 09:31:17 AM »

Brian I also have a guardian angel. I came home from work late and very tired. got some thing out of the fridge put it in the toaster oven sat down and turned on the news the next thing I hear is someone knocking at the door I get up go to the door and no one is there look all around out side and could not find any body. I go back inside and the house was full of smoke. So I grab the toaster oven toss it out side and it starts on fire. I fell asleep and it woke me up to save my life.
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 10:03:27 AM »

Amen, Brian and Irwin. Amen. No need to post my experiences, they are the same. I could not agree more.
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 08:42:10 PM »

I've been thinking about this post ever since my last posting on it.  Specifically on faith healing.  I know Frantz will understand me on this due to similar religious exposure. 

I have twice healed people who had been told by more than one doctor (for each) that their back was broken and they would never walk again.  Essentially one of those arise and walk type miracle cures.  Healing for small bumps, bruises, and illnesses are a big deal and I do those fairly often but broken backs come with a whole new play book so to speak.  When the conditions is serious there is a consequence upon the healer for curing the injured.  In each of the 2 cases I mentioned it would not have worked if I had not been willing to accept some of the victims agony as my own, the thing is, that agony stays with you like phantom pain.  That's one of the reasons I hurt so much more, I think, than many people with my same health problems.  It might even be the reason I have some of the illnesses and pain that I do, the accumulation of agony transferred from those I've healed.
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 12:05:54 PM »

Yes, Brian as you know I do understand. Bless you for being the man that you are. More men like you and the world would be a different place. I could recount many miracles that I was lucky enough to have seen and some I was blessed enough to have been apart of. The bottom line is it is God's Will. The faith of the person receiving the blessing, and the person giving the blessing have something to do with it, but we do not change God's Will.

After serving a mission in Japan for 2 years thinking that it was a good opportunity to pay back the Lord for the things that I had been given and serve a wonderful people, I of course came back more in "debt" than ever. The things we encounter when we focus on serving others. The blessings of those two years I will never be able to pay back. Ever. Let alone the blessings that my family experienced while I was gone. It was unbelievable.

I also was able to snag my wife of now 16 yrs because of my experiences on my mission. We worked together in a very slow retail store and we got to be best of friends. She was amazed at how "in touch with my spiritual side" I was. She was very interested and felt the need to talk about faith. As I had just returned from Japan about 6 months before I was very fluid with my feelings and explanations of what I felt and believed. I was basically a good salesman with a perfect product. Yep, she fell in Love!!!
So as I said, the blessings that we receive from the lord be they heeling's, miracles, or just plain life all come to us based on our faith and works, and yet they are God's Will.

Even knowing the answer, it was still a question that I had to ask being human. "Why did the Lord not save my mother?" Shortly after my mission, and getting married to my wife, my Mom was diagnosed with a tumor. She only lasted 6 months. She was 45. She left behind a newly married son, a son on a mission in Texas, a 15 yr old son and a 12 yr old daughter. Not to mention a husband that went off the deep end and married the town hussy shortly after her death. I just had to wonder why. Surely if anyone deserved a healing miracle, or a blessing from a guardian angel it was her.... But as I said, it is God's Will. I cannot argue with our Heavenly Father who sees from beginning to end, bottom line is that she was needed elsewhere. Her time and her job here on earth was fullfilled. It was her time to move on. I know that with all my heart, though it pains me to admit that I understand. Even though I have been blessed with the knowledge of the Plan of Salvation, http://mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/heavenly-father-s-plan-of-happiness/god-has-a-plan-for-your-life (The pre-earthlife, the earthlife, our judgement, and our eternal lives after that) I still want to be angry, I want to cry out even 16 yrs later. There are so many times that a mother is needed. Watching my children grow up and accomplish things with no mother there to share it with is almost unmanageable.

But we are not here to dictate to our Heavenly Father how we want things to go, we are here to learn the things that all children must in order to graduate from this school that we call our mortal life. That is why it is so hard to see the innocent suffer, the deserving not healed, and sometimes even more difficult is to the see the very undeserving seemingly blessed. It is hard indeed, but until we are able with a pure heart and intent follow the words "Love one another as I have Loved you" We will remain here.

OK, I am now stepping down off of my sermon box. As I do though I want to thank many of you who I have been blessed to communicate with via this site. In many ways you have allowed me to share those things in life that I would not otherwise be able to. Having basically no family to share things with, in a very strange way you all have become a strange surrogate family. I know, I know, my wife doesn't understand it either. But thanks none the less, my prayers and thoughts are with all of you this holiday season.
God Bless, and may God also grant us all the understanding that we need in this life to reach that peace and happiness that is spoken of by all the ones that have gone before us.
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 06:44:17 PM »

Frantz, I'm, with you on all of that and more. 

I know that there are few people who have communicated with persons from both the pre and post existance as I have.  BTW. my grandchildren were very upset with me when I told them the order of their coming was not up to me.  But they were at my shoulder when I told my daughter and son-in-law about it.  My son-in-law immediately said, "Twin boys!"  2 weeks later we found out my daughter was pregnant and a month later we learned with twins.  The 3rd in the argument is now my youngest granddaughter.

Have you ever been at sacrament meeting and seen the person speaking reveal their spirit so that you got their true intent of their message instead of just their words?  You can close your eyes and still see the spirit shining so brightly before you.  I've had that experience a number of times, my wife gets angry at me for "falling asleep" during church services.  She doesn't believe, yet, when I tell her the extent of what the message was about as it was much more than what she heard.

One thing I've noted from my many experiences is that everything happens for a reason.  Your mother dying when she did meant her mission on this earth had been completed and her passing was a learning experience for those she left behind.  It sounds as if your father missed the message, sorry, I hope he's back on track by now.  The Lord allows things to happen so we can learn certain things important to our own progression as viable individuals.  We come to this earth have accepted a mission to aid mankind and to learn what we can.  Things are allowed to happen so we can learned.  I've often heard people say, "If the Lord really loved me he wouldn't have allowed this to happen!" whereas the exact opposite is the truth, he allowed it to happen because he does love us and wants us to grow and learn as much as we can while we're still here. Every birth, death, joy, or disaster teaches us things we must know and learn--that's why we're here.  Example: my sub-line "Life is a school--what have you learned?"

I'm still here because I have much to do yet in preparing my family, and others, to be able to physically and spiritually weather the storm that is soon to be thrust upon us.  Within the next 10 years the world will essentially be turned upside down (maybe even literally [Mayan Calender 2012]) and half it's population will have disappeared from the earths surface as a result of every natural and manmade disaster imagineable.  Those who survive must be able to live as if transported back in time 1-2 hundred years.  The High technology we enjoy today will exist in only isolated spots around the world.

I'm currently working a food storage progran of 2 years plus the "on the hoof and fruits of labor" that I can grow upon the land I posses.
I'm using and teaching my children and grandchildren those technologies that are no longer used, for the most part, these days.  Technologies such as blacksmithing, repair and recycle, along with the gardening etc.  Those most likely to survive are doing the same, to some greater or lesser extent at this moment.
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2008, 08:22:15 AM »

I'm pretty much agnostic about the supernatural. I've never experienced it, but I won't be disrespectful to those who have. I assume that most people are telling the truth about their experiences.

Why do you think that "ghosts" (however you define them) appear to some and not others? Or, if the topic is angels or similar, why are some people saved from harm and not others?

I don't get hung up on the supernatural, I try and keep things in perspective, are there strange occurrances, yes. Ghosts and goblins, not sure, does it matter, no. Angels, hmmm, perhaps, again, let's keep things in perspective and real.

I believe in what comes around goes around but I don't look to see if its happened.

Life is short and the key to a good life is love and forgiveness, life is too short to hold grudges, let the bad go and the good in and remember, worrying is part of life but useless, instead of worrying try and find solutions, this will keep you busy, mentally, while that problem you're worrying about is resolved.



...JP
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 01:50:46 AM »

Why do you think that "ghosts" (however you define them) appear to some and not others? Or, if the topic is angels or similar, why are some people saved from harm and not others?

Those who were saved listened and those who perished didn't.  Simple as that.  Some people refuse to believe what is happening because it is contrary to logic or science or their personal beliefs.  Except in a dire emergency God 1st speaks to us in a still small voice that most people refer to as a consciense.  It is so subtle that they don't recognize it for what it truly is.
I've taught people how to see auras and if you can see auras you can see ghosts.  Be aware that ghosts are personages; past, present, or future.  A person exists as an individual entity prior to, post, and present to earthly existance.  They have the same image if not the same form.  In the Bible it says that God created man in his own image and likeness, meaning that man is a mirrored reflection of God.  God has a head, body, arms, legs, etc just as man does.  Anyonw who has had to opportunity to see into the post existance knows (even if they refuse to accept it) that life goes on, that man exiists a seperate entities, and that there are many more demensions to this universe that height, length, width, and time. 

Well - personally I don't believe in "ghosts" like other people do. I used to, but don't anymore. Most people believe ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that are for some reason stuck on the earth. But now I think they're "demons" or "evil spirits" - just part of my understanding of the bible and what it says about these types of things. I never had a "ghost" type experience until after I was saved around 9 years old. I think it was satan's way of just trying to confuse me, mess me up, and try to get me away from following after God. I think if I had never sought after God, I probably wouldn't have ever had any of those experiences. Satan wouldn't have had to bug me in any way, cause it would have been like he'd won - if I never knew God.

Anyway - my beliefs on the other thing you mentioned. I can't say I have an absolute answer, but this is just what I think is possible.

Since I believe these are angels - and angels "work" for God - then the people helped would most likely be people that first believe in God. Right? I have a belief that God sees us as we are in the END. He sees us now, but His main "picture" of us is what we are in the future. So I'm sure there are people that are helped by angels that don't know God or don't believe in God at the time of help - but God knows that they will at a later time. (anyway) It seems to me that most of the people helped are those that have prayed for protection - and that protection comes from angels. I'm not so sure about the idea of people having specific guardian angels for themselves. My understanding of the bible is that I can request to have many angels go to work for me on a matter. That since I'm one of God's adopted children, I can have the angels work for me just as God would ask them to work.

You have a start but an angel is a chosen agent of God, a personage that God choses for a specific chore.  To that end Angels are personages who have yet to live a life on earth, who are currently living a life on earth, or have already lived a life on earth.

If you've ever had a premonition of a pending event or had an irrestable urge to go someplace or do something and because of that you find yourself in a situation that if you hadn't been there something terrible would have happened.  Maybe something as simple as Irwin's experience, then you've been an angel, or been touched by one.

Quote
I don't claim to understand everything (or anything really) - but it's my "best guess" from what I read in the bible. So mabye the people that don't get help from angels, have just never asked for that help. Or if a bad thing happens to a person that HAS asked for protection, maybe what they think is bad, really isn't - but has a purpose instead. Heck - my husband got cancer (found in 4th stage, given a very short time to live, and was miraculously healed by God), and that cancer was one of the best things that ever happened to us.

Beth


Have you every prayed for strength?  And then it seems like everything hits the fan?  To God adversity breeds strength, so if you pray for strength you are given adversity in answer to your prayer.  When assessing whether or not God answers our prayers it is necessary to realize what we must pray for in order to get the desired answer.

Part of the topic we're talking about has to do with following Gods commandments (moral directives).  If you follow a given commandment then you are entitled to the reward that is linked to that commandment.  Follow the Words of Wisdom (Mormons) or Kosher (Jews) and you are rewarded with health, endurance, and long life.  This also means that if you are praying for a reward you are not entitled to, you're not going to get it because you haven't earned it.  A preposterous as it may sound, getting God to answer our prayers is as simple as changing a bad habit or following a commandment we've been neglecting.

It could well be that the purpose of your husband's being cured of cancer is both a reward for following commandments and to get you where you are now.  Believing in God but not fully understanding the whole concept.  For a starter read James 1:5 over and over and pray over and over until you have a sure faith, and I garantee you, you will get an answer. Once you understand what is really being said there, and truly believe it is when you'll get your answer.  (PS Don't be afraid to ask for an answer in a form you cannot deny or mistake in anyway.)
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 07:53:46 PM »

There are some good points here. It makes you think.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »

sorry guys....i have to skip over the Mormon stuff because i'm still having expensive and negative Mormon problems.  don't take my ignoring what you wrote personally. i don't include you in my negative feelings in the hope that not all Mormons are the same.....i just can't deal with it now.

i don't know if i believe in ghosts.  i think that when we die the disposition of our soul is a done deal.  i don't think we hang around, or hang out in purgatory, or get another chance.  however, the bible and most religions talk about other entities. they are called angles, demons, spirits, etc.  until recently, all societies embraced the supernatural.  it is only recently that we have come to believe that we are to advanced to have spiritual beliefs.  it is hard for me to believe that for 1000's of years people were wrong and now we suddenly have it right.  i think there is an "other".
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 10:20:32 AM »

Honestly I never knew what to believe as far as how the spirit world worked and still don't know how it works but I did have an experience last year that has changed how I think about things.
My brother's wife was very ill with cancer and she wanted to have one last get together before she passed away.
We all gathered at their house for a cookout. During the cookout she talked and spent time with each person but she was very sick and went into the house and never made it back out.
As I got the children ready to leave my husband went into the house to use the bathroom and when he came out he said that he spoke with my sister in law, ( her hospital bed was in the living room and she had gone in to lay down there) on his way in and said goodbye to her and on his way out she was already falling asleep and she said tell everyone I said goodbye.
Well, I was very upset because I did not get to say goodbye and it bothered me the whole way home and after.
A couple nights later I had a dream ( I thought it was a dream at least at first) where I saw my sister in law in a nice outfit that I had never seen her wear before and she said I came to say goodbye but I don't want to go.
She was standing in a doorway about 6-8 feet over my head, like there was a room right over me and she was walking through the doorway, she paused at the door and said I don't want to go but they are telling me I have to.
I kept hearing people say to her you can go, you have to go, its time for you to go over and over and then I heard myself say its okay you have to go and I had no idea why I would say that when I did not want her to go at all. She said to me, I don't want to go and I said I know but you have to and I kept thinking to myself why on earth am I saying this to her.
So she looked at me one last time and said Goodbye I have to go now they are calling me and I said goodbye I love you and she walked through the doorway.
I woke my husband up and told him that Brenda just died and he said how do you know, who called?
I told him that no one called that I just saw her and that she came to say goodbye to me.
He was like um okay you should go back to sleep. I told him I wasn't asleep when I talked to her.
A few minutes later the phone rang and I said see there is the call, I answered the phone and it was my brother and he called to tell me that Brenda had passed away shortly before.
I told him what happened and he was shocked and he told me those voices I heard telling her to go was him and her daughter telling her to let go, they were saying to her its okay, you have to go.
I told him that she said that she didn't want to go and he said he knew that because she had been hanging on so long and the hospice nurse told him that he had to tell her it was okay to go so she could die in peace since her suffering was so unbearable.
We compared the times that she died and the time that I spoke with her and it was the same time.
True story, take what you want from it but I know that there is definitely more to the human spirit and our souls than our bodies.
Her body was racked with pain and she was very very ill and the woman I saw looked as healthy and beautiful as she had always been, she left that body behind but she was not gone.
There is something bigger than us all and I take alot of comfort in that.
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2009, 02:22:10 PM »

put me down in the I believe corner since I watch Ghost Hunters on the SciFi channel every Wednesday.
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2009, 10:08:00 PM »

Natalie, I'm happy for you that you were able to tell your sister goodbye.

Right now my last grandparent, my grandmother, my mom's mom, is in the hospital and her mind is back and forth.

I had a job that consisted of 5 hours of driving time today and I was called back home to family and came in to see Big Mama, my grandmother.

She recognized me a few times, sometimes she didn't, but I was very glad to be able to come in and kiss her cheek and tell her how much I love her.

She's a wonderful lady of 87 yrs and we have been close my entire life.

Sometimes it is very difficult to let go, but we don't want our love ones to suffer, so we must let them go off to another place.


...JP
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2009, 10:38:56 PM »

JP, you are so right. Saying goodbye is terrible and difficult but its worse if you don't get that chance at all. I think closure is so important.
Its good that you saw your grandmother today, it reminds me of the same thing I went through with my nana.
I saw her the night she died, it was hard being called over to say goodbye but its closure.
I hate facing people that know they are going to die and want to say goodbye, its heartbreaking to face someone who knows their life is ending but its important for them and us to have that time together.
It is hard to let go but like you said its worse to watch our loved ones suffer.
I feel better now knowing that its not the end when they go. I know there has to be something else, some kind of different level of being, another place or some utopia ( that would be my choice) Wink
I am sorry that your grandmother is at that place but I am glad that you were close to her, we need to make the most of life and be good to each other and cherish our loved ones.
Sometimes older people are forgotten about to some degree or sadly altogether, but they were us once and time goes by so fast.
We can cherish our memories of them and live in such a way that would make them proud of us until we meet again.
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2009, 11:05:25 PM »

Well, here is one to think on.
My Father went on ahead in 1991. he was 90 years old.
From then til 1997 every time I would have a dream that he was in, he would never speak.
1997 was the year I got sober. from that time on when My Father is in a dream he always talks.
My sobriety date is January 4, 1997. As long as I remember the past I will stay sober, I hope and pray.

Also, some time feel like I get very close to that other place, I think they call it another de-mention
Our parallel world.
Any one ever feel that. :)doak
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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 12:19:44 AM »

Natalie,

Your experience is more common than you would think.  When my mother's father died he came to my grandmother while she was laying in bed and stood in the doorway.  He said to her, "I've come to say goodbye, Mertie."  A few minutes later the phone rang telling her her husband had passed away.   It was my 1st experience with seeing someone at their own funeral, he looked quite pleased standing behind the casket as everyone filed by.  At my wife's grandfather's funeral I saw him and his wife (who died of cancer in 1960, long before I meant my wife) standing there.  He was wearing what he was wearing in the coffin, a bright read plaid shirt and herring bone pants, the only clean clothes we could find.  His wife was wearing what I described to my wife as a butternut satin dress with silver trim.  My wife got teary and said I had just described the dress her grandmother had been buried in. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 10:01:27 AM »

put me down in the I believe corner since I watch Ghost Hunters on the SciFi channel every Wednesday.

Isn't that in the same category as wrestling? Fabricated?
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