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Author Topic: Question - ghosts, Guardian Angels?  (Read 9290 times)
Lesli
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« on: February 18, 2005, 11:32:40 PM »

I'm pretty much agnostic about the supernatural. I've never experienced it, but I won't be disrespectful to those who have. I assume that most people are telling the truth about their experiences.

Why do you think that "ghosts" (however you define them) appear to some and not others? Or, if the topic is angels or similar, why are some people saved from harm and not others?
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 12:16:12 AM »

Well - personally I don't believe in "ghosts" like other people do. I used to, but don't anymore. Most people believe ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that are for some reason stuck on the earth. But now I think they're "demons" or "evil spirits" - just part of my understanding of the bible and what it says about these types of things. I never had a "ghost" type experience until after I was saved around 9 years old. I think it was satan's way of just trying to confuse me, mess me up, and try to get me away from following after God. I think if I had never sought after God, I probably wouldn't have ever had any of those experiences. Satan wouldn't have had to bug me in any way, cause it would have been like he'd won - if I never knew God.

Anyway - my beliefs on the other thing you mentioned. I can't say I have an absolute answer, but this is just what I think is possible.

Since I believe these are angels - and angels "work" for God - then the people helped would most likely be people that first believe in God. Right? I have a belief that God sees us as we are in the END. He sees us now, but His main "picture" of us is what we are in the future. So I'm sure there are people that are helped by angels that don't know God or don't believe in God at the time of help - but God knows that they will at a later time. (anyway) It seems to me that most of the people helped are those that have prayed for protection - and that protection comes from angels. I'm not so sure about the idea of people having specific guardian angels for themselves. My understanding of the bible is that I can request to have many angels go to work for me on a matter. That since I'm one of God's adopted children, I can have the angels work for me just as God would ask them to work.

I don't claim to understand everything (or anything really) - but it's my "best guess" from what I read in the bible. So mabye the people that don't get help from angels, have just never asked for that help. Or if a bad thing happens to a person that HAS asked for protection, maybe what they think is bad, really isn't - but has a purpose instead. Heck - my husband got cancer (found in 4th stage, given a very short time to live, and was miraculously healed by God), and that cancer was one of the best things that ever happened to us.

Beth
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 12:30:51 PM »

Lesli:

First, I know Beth always loves to hear my "Vibrating magnetic Energy Pool of Positive and negative Motion" theories, but here comes another one.

I believe that all energy, as well as religions, as well as astrology, music, whale sounds, Nascar race cars, jets, and the pull of planets by their suns all interact in this giant ballet of weightless energy (something near but not quite called String Theory) and whether it is AFTER we leave the body or before, we have conscience energy that is MORE related to the COLLECTIVE UNIVERSAL CONSCIENCE than we are in the physical body.

Someday when we all evolve (sorry Beth) we will find that defining line between conscience and body and when that happens we will begin the ultimate voyage - the journey to universal awareness.

You can call this finding God (any religion's God will do) or ultimate peace or obtaining and melding into complete understanding of all that there is, or ever was. It is literally being part of the magnetic pulls that attract and repell all objects throughout the Universe, placing things where they are and rotating them like a giro so that they stay there until a greater force passes its way and moves it on with the slightest of energy.

So what does that have to do with ghosts, or guardian angels, etc..

Well. The STUFF we are made of is part of a collective of stuff that we are made of. Lets say like a sand castle is made up of sand - it is only a castle becase it is shaped like one - a recognizable shape to us, created by our experiences and visible to us because it is within the light spectrum which we can see.

Take away the shape and it is just sand, we see no castle - but in thought, the castle is still there - just shaped in a way we no longer can comprehend as a castle.

When we pass on (I believe) and even when we are here (which starts to lose some people - Beths already in her car driving to church to pray for me  shocked  ) Our conscience creatures, our TRUE BEINGS are seen by our physical appearance - rarely for the beautiful being that is housed in this shell of a body we travel around in like a hermit crab.

But our conscience is able to leave the body, float and travel about without the restrictions of the body. It can travel threw time and space and move about is seemingly endless experiences in just a blink of the eye - because time is NOT a factor in the conscience world - only in the physical.

We have Oras and energy that reflects our conscienceness - many people call it karma, which for general speak will do. This engergy is powerful stuff concidaring it is effected by Gravity only - this single particle that the string theorists keep having trouble adding to their mathamatical equations. But I believe the reason GRAVITY only plays a part in the theory SOME of the time is because it comes into play ONLY WHEN the conscience energy is INTERACTING with the physical energy. When on its own - the conscience energy has nothing to do with gravity.

So, we attract like energy NOT opposite energy than our own - Magnets or better put GRAVITY requires opposite energy to attract. But conscienceness is like a tumbleweed gathering LIKE material as it travels along.

As we go through life the outer shell often dictates our attitude: we ache and work hard, deal with stress and death in our families - all these things wear down at our bodies and it spills over into conscienceness, often changing the purer spirit that we start out as. Lifes trash seeps through us like worms through the Earth - leaving us with holes that make us more and more vulnerable to change.

The good news though is our conscienceness is its own being - capable of independent thought (actually our conscience being does all of our thinking, but when attached to the body it is SWAYED be the health and pain and fear that HARM to the body that is has experienced and the SUBCONSCIENCE experiences can persuede the conscience to make poor decisions - on its own though, the conscience can make NO wrong decisions, it only reacts to the enviroment and all the energy that surrounds it.

Okay, I'm still NOT at the point. But I hope you see that since we are surrounded by like energy, and like energy often has reasons for being LIKE energy - it is often the conscienceness of past family members, other conscience beings and random similar energy which has collected in a localized pool of like energy.

Image (of all things) a tiedye teeshirt - in the random looking pattern we see pools or colors that are grouped together - other pools of similar colors, but of other shapes are found elsewhere in the pattern. But these shapes not random in the tiedye, no more than they are in the vastness of the Universe.

Planets circle suns governed by their mass and the the mass of other planets that also revolve around that sun. That solar system is spaced according to its mass relative to other solar systems and they form a gallaxy. Gallaxies are located by their mass in relationships to other gallaxies to form our Universe.

Energy of conscienceness is different AGAIN because it is NOT effected by gravity - with the exception that the person with an apparent guardian angel or (if you choose "luck") has "LIKE ENERGY" working around it - helping a strong conscience being more than helping one with a weak conscience being.  Again, a large tumbleweed gathers more material than a small one.

We all have conscience beings - there is no exception. Some are natural strong and the person has GREAT understanding of its existance - while other people may have even greater conscience energy with NO understanding of it. We have had enlightened people throughout history of all religions and of NO religions.

People who are lucky in "life's close calls" or seem to have an angel on their shoulder often do - I might not call it an angel, where Beth would but I do believe we are talking about the same exact thing. These LUCKY PEOPLE who seemingly have "beat the odds" are indeed blessed to have an abundant amount of energy working in their behalf - although the energy has to deal with gravity, which PURE ENERGY has little experience dealing with - if it had, then no harm would ever come to that person, the math would just work always in their favor.

But in a split second crisis situation, a car accident or any trama, energy (which has all the time in the world, because it isn't governed by time) is thrown the gravity curve and "gravity which works on the physical body" has an effect on what the conscience eneregy is capable of doing. Imagine trying to fly a commercial plane with no experience and literally no way to place hands on the controls anyway. So energy effects the luck factor, but isn't capable of solving all situations - it does though have effect. Again, I believe that it does NOT "Think" it just reacts and makes a change in the outcome. I think once we JOIN the universal energy (through dealth when no chance of returning to the body exists) then we are no longer individuals, but a drop in the great cosmic pool of like energies. Being attracted to where we are suppose to be and back into the most natural form possible, free of the restrictions of the body.

That being said, is their conscience thought AFTER death or are we just energy in the Universe - I honestly don't know. I do know we are conscience though during out of body experience, but there is a physical body to return to - the collective thoughts of the LIFE are retained and travel outside the body during OBE, but is that EXACTLY the same as when we die? I would hope that our energy is indeed entered into the great cosmic pool and ALSO that our conscience being has its thoughts in tact and able to move through the Universe as it can during OBE - but that is something that no one knows for sure. I know in my mind that THIS is not the end of our voyage, just a stop over to gather experiences, but what happens after our energy leaves our bodies and moves on, I'm not sure if WE retain those experiences, pass them on to God or the pool of energy or any number of other possibilities.

I think Jesus was a VERY INSIGHTFUL MAN, the hub of conscience energy. Literally the Son of God. My belief in God as a man on a throne though is more parable than reality. More like the stars in the sky as seen by the sailor as Gods or other figures to help them steer the night over open waters.

I think of God as the Universe as a whole and in its entirety. Everyone and everything is a part of God. Conscience beings are vast and plentiful in this Universe and each is a part of the great totality that is the Universe.

So, to say it in one sentence: I think people who have guardian angels are people whos conscienceness is very strong and attuned to the Universe.

Well, at least I kept my answer short for a change  rolleyes  I didn't think it neccessary to elaborate  shocked
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 08:31:48 PM »

I always say that the definition of an agnostic or atheist is someone who has never had the opportunity to die and live to tell about it.
If you've ever had that opportunity you'll never doubt your own existence or the existence of God, EVER.  It becomes a certainty.

I have a guardian angel, I don't known his name but I do recognize the sound of his voice.  My first encounter with him was the summer I turned 6.  We had moved to a house that had inside plumbing (great improvement) for the 1st time and I had to go bad, really bad, the hold onto it and tie it knots type of really bad.  When You entered the farm house from the back porch the wood cook stove was on the right side of the door and the sink and handpump were on the left side of the door. 

It was canning season and the lady we rented the farm from was canning in the kitchen (we shared the house, they lived downstairs and we lived upstairs).  I ran up to the back door and grabbed a-hold of the knob.  As my hand touched to brass I heard a loud urgent voice inside my ear call my name, "Brian."  I yelled, "What?" and looked around to see my father going into the barn to get the milking machines ready and my mother and my older brother going down the lane to bring up the cows from pasture for milking.

I reached for the knob a second time with the exact same results.  This time when I looked around there was no one in sight.  I then opened the door.  Mrs. Chilcoat was standing at the sink, large canning kettle of hot water resting on its lip, tears in her eyes.  She said, "I hear you run up on the porch just as I had this hot kettle in front of the door and I prayed to God you'd stop, otherwise you'd have been scrawled to death."

Something like that makes a big impression on a 6 year-old kid.  The thing is that I've had words with my guardian angel a batch of times since that day.  Each time I heeded him I was saved from serious injury, the times I tried to pretend he was a figment of my imagination I got seriously hurt.  3 times he saved me from getting hit by lightening, twice from car accidents, and at least once from being shot.  There are other times beside.

Every once-in-a-while he pops into my head with instructions, or if you prefer, prophecies and visions of things to come.  He is the reason I'm working so hard to make my homestead as self-sufficient as possible because we are due for some very hard time in the future and those who haven't or don't take the time to reestablish contact with the land and prepare for every conceivable disaster, natural or man made, will be hard put to survive.

I am what the Chinook and Salish Indians of the PNW would call a KeeLally, a shaman or witch doctor.  (Witch doctor is a misnomer).
I have talked to those who were still to come (3 of my grandchildren were arguing over who got to come as the twins and asked me to settle the argument) and those who've departed.  I can't attended a funeral without seeing the dearly departed anymore (Yes, you're supposed to attended your own funeral).  The only time I haven't seen the departed was when the person departed under tragic circumstances and got lost such as when a victim or a murder or suicide.

Each of Us existed before we came to earth and will continue to exist after we die.  A person without their body has a brilliance above that of the noonday sun.  Aura's tell of a persons mood and even their sanity.  The Aura's of insane people are fractured, like looking at a Kaleidoscope.

John, I hate to bust your bubble your intelligence is individual, not collective.  Spirits communicate by telepathy or for intense communication they touch each other and other person can experience everything the teller is saying....they literally share the experience (no misunderstandings that way).

I'll stop my tirade for the moment.  I'll probably have more later.
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 09:31:17 AM »

Brian I also have a guardian angel. I came home from work late and very tired. got some thing out of the fridge put it in the toaster oven sat down and turned on the news the next thing I hear is someone knocking at the door I get up go to the door and no one is there look all around out side and could not find any body. I go back inside and the house was full of smoke. So I grab the toaster oven toss it out side and it starts on fire. I fell asleep and it woke me up to save my life.
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 10:03:27 AM »

Amen, Brian and Irwin. Amen. No need to post my experiences, they are the same. I could not agree more.
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 08:42:10 PM »

I've been thinking about this post ever since my last posting on it.  Specifically on faith healing.  I know Frantz will understand me on this due to similar religious exposure. 

I have twice healed people who had been told by more than one doctor (for each) that their back was broken and they would never walk again.  Essentially one of those arise and walk type miracle cures.  Healing for small bumps, bruises, and illnesses are a big deal and I do those fairly often but broken backs come with a whole new play book so to speak.  When the conditions is serious there is a consequence upon the healer for curing the injured.  In each of the 2 cases I mentioned it would not have worked if I had not been willing to accept some of the victims agony as my own, the thing is, that agony stays with you like phantom pain.  That's one of the reasons I hurt so much more, I think, than many people with my same health problems.  It might even be the reason I have some of the illnesses and pain that I do, the accumulation of agony transferred from those I've healed.
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 12:05:54 PM »

Yes, Brian as you know I do understand. Bless you for being the man that you are. More men like you and the world would be a different place. I could recount many miracles that I was lucky enough to have seen and some I was blessed enough to have been apart of. The bottom line is it is God's Will. The faith of the person receiving the blessing, and the person giving the blessing have something to do with it, but we do not change God's Will.

After serving a mission in Japan for 2 years thinking that it was a good opportunity to pay back the Lord for the things that I had been given and serve a wonderful people, I of course came back more in "debt" than ever. The things we encounter when we focus on serving others. The blessings of those two years I will never be able to pay back. Ever. Let alone the blessings that my family experienced while I was gone. It was unbelievable.

I also was able to snag my wife of now 16 yrs because of my experiences on my mission. We worked together in a very slow retail store and we got to be best of friends. She was amazed at how "in touch with my spiritual side" I was. She was very interested and felt the need to talk about faith. As I had just returned from Japan about 6 months before I was very fluid with my feelings and explanations of what I felt and believed. I was basically a good salesman with a perfect product. Yep, she fell in Love!!!
So as I said, the blessings that we receive from the lord be they heeling's, miracles, or just plain life all come to us based on our faith and works, and yet they are God's Will.

Even knowing the answer, it was still a question that I had to ask being human. "Why did the Lord not save my mother?" Shortly after my mission, and getting married to my wife, my Mom was diagnosed with a tumor. She only lasted 6 months. She was 45. She left behind a newly married son, a son on a mission in Texas, a 15 yr old son and a 12 yr old daughter. Not to mention a husband that went off the deep end and married the town hussy shortly after her death. I just had to wonder why. Surely if anyone deserved a healing miracle, or a blessing from a guardian angel it was her.... But as I said, it is God's Will. I cannot argue with our Heavenly Father who sees from beginning to end, bottom line is that she was needed elsewhere. Her time and her job here on earth was fullfilled. It was her time to move on. I know that with all my heart, though it pains me to admit that I understand. Even though I have been blessed with the knowledge of the Plan of Salvation, http://mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/heavenly-father-s-plan-of-happiness/god-has-a-plan-for-your-life (The pre-earthlife, the earthlife, our judgement, and our eternal lives after that) I still want to be angry, I want to cry out even 16 yrs later. There are so many times that a mother is needed. Watching my children grow up and accomplish things with no mother there to share it with is almost unmanageable.

But we are not here to dictate to our Heavenly Father how we want things to go, we are here to learn the things that all children must in order to graduate from this school that we call our mortal life. That is why it is so hard to see the innocent suffer, the deserving not healed, and sometimes even more difficult is to the see the very undeserving seemingly blessed. It is hard indeed, but until we are able with a pure heart and intent follow the words "Love one another as I have Loved you" We will remain here.

OK, I am now stepping down off of my sermon box. As I do though I want to thank many of you who I have been blessed to communicate with via this site. In many ways you have allowed me to share those things in life that I would not otherwise be able to. Having basically no family to share things with, in a very strange way you all have become a strange surrogate family. I know, I know, my wife doesn't understand it either. But thanks none the less, my prayers and thoughts are with all of you this holiday season.
God Bless, and may God also grant us all the understanding that we need in this life to reach that peace and happiness that is spoken of by all the ones that have gone before us.
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 06:44:17 PM »

Frantz, I'm, with you on all of that and more. 

I know that there are few people who have communicated with persons from both the pre and post existance as I have.  BTW. my grandchildren were very upset with me when I told them the order of their coming was not up to me.  But they were at my shoulder when I told my daughter and son-in-law about it.  My son-in-law immediately said, "Twin boys!"  2 weeks later we found out my daughter was pregnant and a month later we learned with twins.  The 3rd in the argument is now my youngest granddaughter.

Have you ever been at sacrament meeting and seen the person speaking reveal their spirit so that you got their true intent of their message instead of just their words?  You can close your eyes and still see the spirit shining so brightly before you.  I've had that experience a number of times, my wife gets angry at me for "falling asleep" during church services.  She doesn't believe, yet, when I tell her the extent of what the message was about as it was much more than what she heard.

One thing I've noted from my many experiences is that everything happens for a reason.  Your mother dying when she did meant her mission on this earth had been completed and her passing was a learning experience for those she left behind.  It sounds as if your father missed the message, sorry, I hope he's back on track by now.  The Lord allows things to happen so we can learn certain things important to our own progression as viable individuals.  We come to this earth have accepted a mission to aid mankind and to learn what we can.  Things are allowed to happen so we can learned.  I've often heard people say, "If the Lord really loved me he wouldn't have allowed this to happen!" whereas the exact opposite is the truth, he allowed it to happen because he does love us and wants us to grow and learn as much as we can while we're still here. Every birth, death, joy, or disaster teaches us things we must know and learn--that's why we're here.  Example: my sub-line "Life is a school--what have you learned?"

I'm still here because I have much to do yet in preparing my family, and others, to be able to physically and spiritually weather the storm that is soon to be thrust upon us.  Within the next 10 years the world will essentially be turned upside down (maybe even literally [Mayan Calender 2012]) and half it's population will have disappeared from the earths surface as a result of every natural and manmade disaster imagineable.  Those who survive must be able to live as if transported back in time 1-2 hundred years.  The High technology we enjoy today will exist in only isolated spots around the world.

I'm currently working a food storage progran of 2 years plus the "on the hoof and fruits of labor" that I can grow upon the land I posses.
I'm using and teaching my children and grandchildren those technologies that are no longer used, for the most part, these days.  Technologies such as blacksmithing, repair and recycle, along with the gardening etc.  Those most likely to survive are doing the same, to some greater or lesser extent at this moment.
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2008, 08:22:15 AM »

I'm pretty much agnostic about the supernatural. I've never experienced it, but I won't be disrespectful to those who have. I assume that most people are telling the truth about their experiences.

Why do you think that "ghosts" (however you define them) appear to some and not others? Or, if the topic is angels or similar, why are some people saved from harm and not others?

I don't get hung up on the supernatural, I try and keep things in perspective, are there strange occurrances, yes. Ghosts and goblins, not sure, does it matter, no. Angels, hmmm, perhaps, again, let's keep things in perspective and real.

I believe in what comes around goes around but I don't look to see if its happened.

Life is short and the key to a good life is love and forgiveness, life is too short to hold grudges, let the bad go and the good in and remember, worrying is part of life but useless, instead of worrying try and find solutions, this will keep you busy, mentally, while that problem you're worrying about is resolved.



...JP
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 01:50:46 AM »

Why do you think that "ghosts" (however you define them) appear to some and not others? Or, if the topic is angels or similar, why are some people saved from harm and not others?

Those who were saved listened and those who perished didn't.  Simple as that.  Some people refuse to believe what is happening because it is contrary to logic or science or their personal beliefs.  Except in a dire emergency God 1st speaks to us in a still small voice that most people refer to as a consciense.  It is so subtle that they don't recognize it for what it truly is.
I've taught people how to see auras and if you can see auras you can see ghosts.  Be aware that ghosts are personages; past, present, or future.  A person exists as an individual entity prior to, post, and present to earthly existance.  They have the same image if not the same form.  In the Bible it says that God created man in his own image and likeness, meaning that man is a mirrored reflection of God.  God has a head, body, arms, legs, etc just as man does.  Anyonw who has had to opportunity to see into the post existance knows (even if they refuse to accept it) that life goes on, that man exiists a seperate entities, and that there are many more demensions to this universe that height, length, width, and time. 

Well - personally I don't believe in "ghosts" like other people do. I used to, but don't anymore. Most people believe ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that are for some reason stuck on the earth. But now I think they're "demons" or "evil spirits" - just part of my understanding of the bible and what it says about these types of things. I never had a "ghost" type experience until after I was saved around 9 years old. I think it was satan's way of just trying to confuse me, mess me up, and try to get me away from following after God. I think if I had never sought after God, I probably wouldn't have ever had any of those experiences. Satan wouldn't have had to bug me in any way, cause it would have been like he'd won - if I never knew God.

Anyway - my beliefs on the other thing you mentioned. I can't say I have an absolute answer, but this is just what I think is possible.

Since I believe these are angels - and angels "work" for God - then the people helped would most likely be people that first believe in God. Right? I have a belief that God sees us as we are in the END. He sees us now, but His main "picture" of us is what we are in the future. So I'm sure there are people that are helped by angels that don't know God or don't believe in God at the time of help - but God knows that they will at a later time. (anyway) It seems to me that most of the people helped are those that have prayed for protection - and that protection comes from angels. I'm not so sure about the idea of people having specific guardian angels for themselves. My understanding of the bible is that I can request to have many angels go to work for me on a matter. That since I'm one of God's adopted children, I can have the angels work for me just as God would ask them to work.

You have a start but an angel is a chosen agent of God, a personage that God choses for a specific chore.  To that end Angels are personages who have yet to live a life on earth, who are currently living a life on earth, or have already lived a life on earth.

If you've ever had a premonition of a pending event or had an irrestable urge to go someplace or do something and because of that you find yourself in a situation that if you hadn't been there something terrible would have happened.  Maybe something as simple as Irwin's experience, then you've been an angel, or been touched by one.

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I don't claim to understand everything (or anything really) - but it's my "best guess" from what I read in the bible. So mabye the people that don't get help from angels, have just never asked for that help. Or if a bad thing happens to a person that HAS asked for protection, maybe what they think is bad, really isn't - but has a purpose instead. Heck - my husband got cancer (found in 4th stage, given a very short time to live, and was miraculously healed by God), and that cancer was one of the best things that ever happened to us.

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Have you every prayed for strength?  And then it seems like everything hits the fan?  To God adversity breeds strength, so if you pray for strength you are given adversity in answer to your prayer.  When assessing whether or not God answers our prayers it is necessary to realize what we must pray for in order to get the desired answer.

Part of the topic we're talking about has to do with following Gods commandments (moral directives).  If you follow a given commandment then you are entitled to the reward that is linked to that commandment.  Follow the Words of Wisdom (Mormons) or Kosher (Jews) and you are rewarded with health, endurance, and long life.  This also means that if you are praying for a reward you are not entitled to, you're not going to get it because you haven't earned it.  A preposterous as it may sound, getting God to answer our prayers is as simple as changing a bad habit or following a commandment we've been neglecting.

It could well be that the purpose of your husband's being cured of cancer is both a reward for following commandments and to get you where you are now.  Believing in God but not fully understanding the whole concept.  For a starter read James 1:5 over and over and pray over and over until you have a sure faith, and I garantee you, you will get an answer. Once you understand what is really being said there, and truly believe it is when you'll get your answer.  (PS Don't be afraid to ask for an answer in a form you cannot deny or mistake in anyway.)
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 07:53:46 PM »

There are some good points here. It makes you think.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »

sorry guys....i have to skip over the Mormon stuff because i'm still having expensive and negative Mormon problems.  don't take my ignoring what you wrote personally. i don't include you in my negative feelings in the hope that not all Mormons are the same.....i just can't deal with it now.

i don't know if i believe in ghosts.  i think that when we die the disposition of our soul is a done deal.  i don't think we hang around, or hang out in purgatory, or get another chance.  however, the bible and most religions talk about other entities. they are called angles, demons, spirits, etc.  until recently, all societies embraced the supernatural.  it is only recently that we have come to believe that we are to advanced to have spiritual beliefs.  it is hard for me to believe that for 1000's of years people were wrong and now we suddenly have it right.  i think there is an "other".
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 10:20:32 AM »

Honestly I never knew what to believe as far as how the spirit world worked and still don't know how it works but I did have an experience last year that has changed how I think about things.
My brother's wife was very ill with cancer and she wanted to have one last get together before she passed away.
We all gathered at their house for a cookout. During the cookout she talked and spent time with each person but she was very sick and went into the house and never made it back out.
As I got the children ready to leave my husband went into the house to use the bathroom and when he came out he said that he spoke with my sister in law, ( her hospital bed was in the living room and she had gone in to lay down there) on his way in and said goodbye to her and on his way out she was already falling asleep and she said tell everyone I said goodbye.
Well, I was very upset because I did not get to say goodbye and it bothered me the whole way home and after.
A couple nights later I had a dream ( I thought it was a dream at least at first) where I saw my sister in law in a nice outfit that I had never seen her wear before and she said I came to say goodbye but I don't want to go.
She was standing in a doorway about 6-8 feet over my head, like there was a room right over me and she was walking through the doorway, she paused at the door and said I don't want to go but they are telling me I have to.
I kept hearing people say to her you can go, you have to go, its time for you to go over and over and then I heard myself say its okay you have to go and I had no idea why I would say that when I did not want her to go at all. She said to me, I don't want to go and I said I know but you have to and I kept thinking to myself why on earth am I saying this to her.
So she looked at me one last time and said Goodbye I have to go now they are calling me and I said goodbye I love you and she walked through the doorway.
I woke my husband up and told him that Brenda just died and he said how do you know, who called?
I told him that no one called that I just saw her and that she came to say goodbye to me.
He was like um okay you should go back to sleep. I told him I wasn't asleep when I talked to her.
A few minutes later the phone rang and I said see there is the call, I answered the phone and it was my brother and he called to tell me that Brenda had passed away shortly before.
I told him what happened and he was shocked and he told me those voices I heard telling her to go was him and her daughter telling her to let go, they were saying to her its okay, you have to go.
I told him that she said that she didn't want to go and he said he knew that because she had been hanging on so long and the hospice nurse told him that he had to tell her it was okay to go so she could die in peace since her suffering was so unbearable.
We compared the times that she died and the time that I spoke with her and it was the same time.
True story, take what you want from it but I know that there is definitely more to the human spirit and our souls than our bodies.
Her body was racked with pain and she was very very ill and the woman I saw looked as healthy and beautiful as she had always been, she left that body behind but she was not gone.
There is something bigger than us all and I take alot of comfort in that.
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2009, 02:22:10 PM »

put me down in the I believe corner since I watch Ghost Hunters on the SciFi channel every Wednesday.
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2009, 10:08:00 PM »

Natalie, I'm happy for you that you were able to tell your sister goodbye.

Right now my last grandparent, my grandmother, my mom's mom, is in the hospital and her mind is back and forth.

I had a job that consisted of 5 hours of driving time today and I was called back home to family and came in to see Big Mama, my grandmother.

She recognized me a few times, sometimes she didn't, but I was very glad to be able to come in and kiss her cheek and tell her how much I love her.

She's a wonderful lady of 87 yrs and we have been close my entire life.

Sometimes it is very difficult to let go, but we don't want our love ones to suffer, so we must let them go off to another place.


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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2009, 10:38:56 PM »

JP, you are so right. Saying goodbye is terrible and difficult but its worse if you don't get that chance at all. I think closure is so important.
Its good that you saw your grandmother today, it reminds me of the same thing I went through with my nana.
I saw her the night she died, it was hard being called over to say goodbye but its closure.
I hate facing people that know they are going to die and want to say goodbye, its heartbreaking to face someone who knows their life is ending but its important for them and us to have that time together.
It is hard to let go but like you said its worse to watch our loved ones suffer.
I feel better now knowing that its not the end when they go. I know there has to be something else, some kind of different level of being, another place or some utopia ( that would be my choice) Wink
I am sorry that your grandmother is at that place but I am glad that you were close to her, we need to make the most of life and be good to each other and cherish our loved ones.
Sometimes older people are forgotten about to some degree or sadly altogether, but they were us once and time goes by so fast.
We can cherish our memories of them and live in such a way that would make them proud of us until we meet again.
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2009, 11:05:25 PM »

Well, here is one to think on.
My Father went on ahead in 1991. he was 90 years old.
From then til 1997 every time I would have a dream that he was in, he would never speak.
1997 was the year I got sober. from that time on when My Father is in a dream he always talks.
My sobriety date is January 4, 1997. As long as I remember the past I will stay sober, I hope and pray.

Also, some time feel like I get very close to that other place, I think they call it another de-mention
Our parallel world.
Any one ever feel that. :)doak
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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 12:19:44 AM »

Natalie,

Your experience is more common than you would think.  When my mother's father died he came to my grandmother while she was laying in bed and stood in the doorway.  He said to her, "I've come to say goodbye, Mertie."  A few minutes later the phone rang telling her her husband had passed away.   It was my 1st experience with seeing someone at their own funeral, he looked quite pleased standing behind the casket as everyone filed by.  At my wife's grandfather's funeral I saw him and his wife (who died of cancer in 1960, long before I meant my wife) standing there.  He was wearing what he was wearing in the coffin, a bright read plaid shirt and herring bone pants, the only clean clothes we could find.  His wife was wearing what I described to my wife as a butternut satin dress with silver trim.  My wife got teary and said I had just described the dress her grandmother had been buried in. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 10:01:27 AM »

put me down in the I believe corner since I watch Ghost Hunters on the SciFi channel every Wednesday.

Isn't that in the same category as wrestling? Fabricated?
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« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 10:39:20 AM »

One thing I have realized is that what I believe is the afterlife is right here. I don't think everyone floats up miles to heaven. I do believe in God, the after life and some sort of nirvana ( I hope)
I believe though that other dimension, heaven is right here, within a few feet of us.
I saw my sister in law walk through a doorway only a few feet over my head.
I don't think people go to another "place" per se as in a far away destination, its another dimension and we walk around in it every day and don't realize it unless you have a higher level of conciousness.
My pastor once described all this as cracks, a crack here and there that we slip in and out of. It kind of reminds me of the stephen king book the talisman where you could slip in and out of dimensions and lives within these cracks in the universe.

Doak, congratulations on your sobriety, truly I mean that. It takes alot of strength for people to live a life of sobriety and I pray you always keep that strength.
I believe that your father is very proud of you and you probably had him worried before you were sober.
Also, maybe how we live and behave is connected to our loved ones and maybe we give them some sort of energy and maybe it helps them communicate better if we have good energy.
I have no idea, just speculating on how it all works, which we probably will never know in our lifetime.
I do understand what you mean by a parallel world, that is what I was trying to describe in this post as well. I do believe that there is another whole dimension right within where we live and work everyday. I do feel it as well.

Brian I think you are right, it happens more often that people realize you just have to be open to it.
I live in a house built in 1768, there is alot of history here.
Long story short, we have all seen spirits here. You will walk into a room and just see someone standing there and they disappear.
My 5 year old daughter has always talked about the little girl that lives in this house and wants to play with her, she tells me that when she is downstairs she will hear the girl call her name and ask her to come upstairs to play.
It scares my daughter but I try to comfort her and explain it all away.
Well there was a little girl that died here many years ago. The town historian is my next door neighbor and he has all the records and even has a picture of this little girl, he gave me a copy recently and I don't know what to do with it so I put it in a draw, I know he thought he was just sharing information.
When we first moved here 15 years ago my daughter who is 19 now was only 4 years old and she talked about how she was mad at me for moving us in with another family.
SHe said that she was mad at me because I told her how we were getting our own house and did not have to rent an apartment anymore and she said I lied to her.
So when I asked her to explain she said that we were living with other people, she described and old man an old woman and a black man who wore short pants and didn't have any shoes.
She saw these people as plain as day.
My son who was only 2 years old at the time use to sneak into the attic and talk to someone there.
I would find him in there saying  so what are you doing now? what do you want to do? stuff like that.
One day he was eating his breakfast and he turned to yell over his shoulder, "I'm coming and he jumped off the chair and ran upstairs to the attic.
I had put a lock on it because of him sneaking in there and he cried and banged on that door.
It scared the blank out of me, let me tell ya.
I had a yard sale one day a couple of summers back and a woman came up to me and said that she saw a woman in my upstairs window.
I looked and didn't see anyone and I told her thats  my son's room there is no woman there.
She said yes there is and she looks upset. I still didn't see her until I realized what she was really trying to say.
She asked if she could go in my house for a few minutes, I took her inside and she said that she saw a little girl.
I had told her nothing at all about my house or any other spirits that anyone else had seen.
She said the little girl is lonely and that she goes into whatever room I am in.
It was over 90 degrees that day and the hair on this woman's arms were standing on end.
She started explaining all these other spirits that she saw, she said there are so many here.
He son came into find her and she said do you see anyone here and he said there is a guy and a woman in the bedroom there, which was just off of the room we were in.

I guess alot of people can see things, especially children who are more open with their spirits.

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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 10:43:41 AM »

doak, i think some people are naturally more sensitive to the spiritual world.  in fact, scripture, legend, and mythology, all tell us that man used to communicate openly with spirits/god/etc.  perhaps we lost our connection when we decided to be "civilized"....or when we turned away from God and substitute religion, giving the responsibility for our spiritual health over to the/a church (whichever one you choose smiley )
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« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 10:45:14 AM »

Gotta tell you Natalie I don't believe I could spend a night in your house. That would scare the bejesus out of me

Keith
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« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 10:50:45 AM »

Some people are more in tune with the spirit world because they take the time to go there and observe and participate even.

Its hard enough keeping up with things going on in this world to involve yourself with another!

Natalie, interesting things going on over at your place.


...JP
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« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 11:04:45 AM »

You know doak, I was just thinking about what you said about the other dimension and I remembered something that happened to me a year or two ago.
One night my husband called home from work to check in on us and I asked him to bring home a case of water and my son asked him to bring home a can of soda for him.
We said our goodbyes and hung up.
I was reading in bed a little while later when I heard him come in the house and drop something loudly on the floor which I thought was a toolbox and then realized it had to be the case of water.
His keys were jangling very loudly and I wondered where he got so many keys and then thought maybe his boss gave them to him.
Then I heard him talking to my son and they were being very loud and thought to myself how they were going to wake up the children.
So I hear him go to the closet outside by bedroom door to change out of his uniform like he always does and I lay down thinking he would be in within a couple of minutes and I waited.
I ended up falling asleep and when I woke up he was not in bed.
I got up to see if he was watching tv and he wasn't there, he wasn't anywhere. I looked out in the driveway and the car wasn't there.
I went upstairs to ask my son where his father went because it was so unlike him, he is not the type to go out anywhere and my son says that he hadn't seen him yet.
My son tells me that he heard his dad come in and drop something on the floor and he heard me and his dad talking  huh  He said that we were being loud and when he came down to get his soda from his dad that no one was there.
He said the car was gone so he thought I sent him back to the store for something.
He also heard the loud keys jangling.
When I told him that I never saw his father much less talked to him he was shocked and swore he heard us talking.
I told him that I heard him and his father talking and he said he saw him either.
So both of us heard my husband come in the house, with loud keys jangling, drop something down on the floor loudly and heard a loud boisterous conversation going on and we both thought it was the other one talking to him.
I called my husband to see where he was and he says that he is driving home from work right then and would be home in a half hour or so huh
Yikes. So I spill the whole story to him and he doesn't even know what to say. He tells me to check the door to see if its locked and it was, it also had the hook latch on the top of the door that we keep on so the younger children don't go out near the busy street.
So someone would have had to let him in anyway, he would have been locked out.
So who came in like they were getting home from work, going through the whole motions of returning home from a hard days work?
Its like someone else lives and works in the same place as us but its a seperate dimension, like we lead parallel lives.
I know it sounds bizarre but it really happened to me and I don't know how to make sense of it all.
My house use to be a stage coach stop that ran from here to Boston, it was also a farm and a shoe factory.
The shoe factory is now my next door neighbor's house and they said they hear someone come up the steps to the bedroom every night like clockwork.
There is alot of history here and maybe some energy gets trapped or something, I don't know.
I had never previously given any of this type of thing any thought but since these things have happened more and more here I have been trying to make sense of it.
I consider myself to be a somewhat sane person and not prone to delusions but I do know what I hear and what I see.
Someone told me that things happen more in an old house when you disturb something there.
I just unearthed a well in the backyard 2 days ago that had been buried, the masonry work was pretty impressive and I figure I will have the top of the well built up nicely by a mason, my neighbor who is the town historian saw us and came over.
He said oh you finally found the old well, very good. He said ya know the little girl and her grandfather that died here died from drinking bad well water from that well.... huh embarassed
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« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 11:24:45 AM »

I just saw the replies that came in while I was typing. Kathy I think you are right with your observation.
Jp and Keith, I have a friend who will not be alone in my house, will not babysit because she is scared. Her husband stayed here while her and I ran down to the corner store one night to buy catfood and when we came back he was standing there with his coat on and said they had to leave right away.
He said he saw and heard ghosts or something and he literally bolted to his car, now that scared her so she feels the same way.
I know that when you come home sometimes here you can hear alot of voices, sometimes I think I left the tv on and when I go into the living room to shut it off its not even on.
It sounds like someone is having a get together that you walk in on.
It happened just last night, my husband was laying in bed and I came in and just as I started to climb in we both heard voices and he said did someone just turn the tv on? I said no everyone is in bed but I will check, well of course there was no tv or radio or anything on and the voices just stopped.
The first time this happened to me was a week or so after I moved in and it scared me so bad I ran to my car and drove to my parents' house.
I have gotten use to it now. The only other time it scared me was a few years ago when I was home alone with the kids and I thought someone broke in.
My husband had gone to the supermarket, it was pouring rain and I was pregnant with my 6th child so I was hanging out on the couch reading.
I heard what I thought was 2 men talking outside the window and I ran into the other room to check my toddlers who fell asleep on my bed. I stayed in there with them while I listened and I thought the voices were in my kitchen.
I picked up my cell phone to call 911 and the phone was dead even though I thought I had a full charge.
I am now in full panic mode so I am hiding behind the door listening, I could hear their voices but did not know what they were saying.
After a few minutes I didn't hear them and I snuck to the next room to get the house phone and I looked around and didn't see anyone. I made a dash for the phone just as it rang and it was my husband calling to ask if I needed anything else at the store and I am hysterical telling him I thought someone was in the house and while I was telling him this the phone died.
I frantically tried to call out but I couldn't get a dial tone.
I still did  not see anyone and the back door was in my full view and I didn't see anyone leave.
My husband came barreling in scared to death because I was crying and yelling on the phone and then he got disconnected.
Long story short, no one broke in and the voices I heard were probably the ones I always heard but the phone thing scared me out of my wits.
When we checked the phones afterwards both of the worked fine.
 A few nights later when I was laying in bed the house phone rang, it was like 2 am and I looked at the caller id and it said the call was from my cell phone.
I thought, what the heck, did I lose my cell phone and someone found it?
I answer it and no one is on the other end.
I get up and grab my pocket book from a chair in the dining room where I left it and sure enough my cell phone was in my bag.
I know you guys think I am crazy by now, but I will tell you one more thing.
My house is very old and the basement is  musty with stone walls and a dirt floor.
Its not a very pleasant place so I don't use it for anything but storing paint cans.
When we moved in we cleaned it all out and raked out the dirt floor.
We had a new hot water heater and a furnace installed in the past couple of years and we have been down there for a few things like that.
My husband went downstairs to change the filter on the furnace a short while back and came up with this bewildered look on his face and tells me that he just found a headstone down there.
I'm thinking what is he talking about if there was a headstone down there we would have seen it by now.
He makes me go down there and sure enough there is a headstone laying against the wall next to the furnace.
Now we sure would have seen that by now, especially next to the furnace.
It was a plain headstone, very old and the think oval shaped ones.
It had some think cracks in it but otherwise intact. It did not have anything carved into it that we could see.
I have no idea how it got there and why it got there. I do know that it wasn't there before and what it means now that we found it.
I don't know if someone is trying to tell us something but it does scare me. I don't know what to do with it so it stays there.
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2009, 11:53:27 AM »

Natalie I do think your crazy, but not for the reasons you think, for staying!!!!!!!!!!!!! shocked shocked There is no way I would still step foot in that house after everything you have experienced. The part about the phone sounded like the plot of a good horror movie no way could I sleep at night.

My Mother saw ghosts when she was younger (20'S) when she moved from her old family home to go to college she quit seeing them. I believe it is connected to houses and thank my lucky stars I have never been in one of them.

Keith
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« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2009, 07:11:07 PM »

Hey Natalie, got to ask, what's halloween like at your house? I guess just like any other day huh? Wink

What an interesting house you have. I don't think I would be scared except for the break in stuff. My first inkling would be to try and help these lost souls, if that's what they are.

Have you ever asked them what it is that they want or need?

I saw this movie the other day with Kevin Bacon, not a brand new movie but it was showing, very interesting, called Stir Of Echoes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164181/

Have you seen it before Natalie? After reading this post I wonder if there are spirits with closure issues going on in your house.

Your stories are very fascinating.


...JP
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« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2009, 07:48:03 PM »

Jp, I do think there has to be some sort of unfinished business or something here and maybe its related to the headstone, not sure.
The woman that saw the spirits here that day said the old woman was very sad, she didn't say why but she said she could come back some day and try to talk to them.
I want her to and at the same time I wonder if we will stir things up even more.
Just recently I e-mailed a paranormal investigator and explained everything in the e-mail and when I tried to send it it kept freezing up and then it just go weird.
I do know a guy who just started working with a paranormal investigator and he said they could come out this spring and see if they can pick up any voices on the machines and stuff like that.
I told him I just want to know if they want something or if they need me to do something for them.
I haven't really tried to talk to them, except when stuff goes missing ( I know this sounds crazy) but I will say I really want my keys back or whatever is gone missing and if you leave the room and come back a minute later the keys will be right there where you just were.
I did see that movie you are talking about a few years ago, creepy huh? But it does show how spirits will contact you about stuff.
I know it does sound nuts like keith says to stay here but I really do love my home and I don't usually get too scared except like something like the whole phone thing happens.
Otherwise you sort of get use to it. I had an electrician do some work here before and he worked a regular day job for his company and did this job on the side so he did it at night after work. I rented a house a couple of doors down while the work was being done(we had plumbing work being done and the bathroom being renovated so we couldn't stay here) so he was here alone.
I don't know what happened but he said someone had to stay in the house with him while he worked because he said that he knows there is something going on here. I never told him anything but he wouldn't telll me what it was he saw or heard, he didn't want to talk about it.

My son had a friend from school come over one day and his mother dropped him off, when he came in he said that his mom recognized my house and told him that when they were looking to buy a house they looked at this one but she said when she went in and looked at it she felt like it was haunted and had some weird feeling so they left.
My nephew helped me move in after I bought it and he put some stuff in the attic and when he came back out he said I will do whatever else you need me to do but I don't want to go back into the attic, he said there is something in there but he wouldn't tell me what he saw.
He has been seeing spirits since he was a child and he is very sensitive to that kind of thing.
The attic doesn't bother me so much even though I can definitely sense a presence but the cellar makes me very uneasy.
I think I block alot of stuff out so that I don't freak myself out, either that or its just that you get more comfortable with it.
One time my mother babysat and my daughter kept flipping here head back and then she said Nana stop pulling my hair and my mom said that she would never pull her hair and my daughter said oh its them then and my mom watched and she said she swore on her life she saw my daughter's braid moving like someone was yanking on her braid.
There has been so many things happen here that I could write a book
 I have been restoring this old place for the last 15 years, it was really falling apart when I bought it but I just loved the place and the history of it . The people that lived here originally were friends with Daniel Webster and he use to come here to get his congressman's boots made by the shoe factory on this property.
I love restoring it to its former glory so I hope the spirits approve, I actually get worried sometimes when we change things that I will upset the balance or something here but I have never modernized it other than the plumbing, heating and electrical systems.
I don't even have a dishwasher or garbage disposal because I am trying to keep it as original as possible.
I know there is alot of people who don't believe and my husband was one of them but he will tell you that he has seen and heard things that have changed his mind.
There are some things that cannot just be scientifically explained away.
I will let you guys know what happens when those paranormal investigators come out to the house this spring.
Maybe I can help the spirits, it bothers me that the woman that saw them said they are sad and lonely.
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« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2009, 08:09:00 PM »

Natalie, write everything down, and yes you may want to consider writing a book. Perhaps you don't quite realize it but your experiences in that house are a best seller and a movie in the making.

Horror movie writers would be chomping at the bit to get your story, most of the time its made up stuff they write about, yours is the real deal.

Please be careful with whom you bring into your house to help you with these issues, seek references if possible. You certainly don't want someone to add fuel to any flames that may be burning.

The lady that cares sounds nice but ask her if she has experience with this sort of thing. I would vote for help from someone who is knowledgeable but very sensitive and caring to these lost souls or whatever they are.

Be very weary of some strong, aggressive type of personality who wants to get involved. Just my .02, not trying to tell you how to do your business.

Best of luck and please keep the stories coming! And write them down, you won't regret it.


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« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2009, 08:51:14 PM »

JP, you are right about who should get involved, thats why I haven't done anything with it yet. I get nervous that they will stir something up and I wonder if I should leave things alone. Then I start to worry that these spirits will be stuck here forever so I would have to tread carefully so that I don't screw it up.
I told the guy that wants to come in and try to record voices that I don't want them to do anything to cause trouble but he said they just set up equipment and hang out. I guess they can catch conversations in the background that no one else hears but they don't try to contact them.
There is a woman someone told me about that will come to your house and ask if they want to communicate.
The people that told me about her have spirits in their house and the woman asked if they wanted to talk and they agreed.The homeowners mentioned that they hear the kitchen door knob rattle every night and a spirit said that he is the caretaker of the house and he walks around every night and checks all the doors and windows and he told the woman to tell the homeowners to call him Joe.
They played a audio tape for me and you can hear a woman call her son over, she says come on and the child's name.
They looked into it and the child died as a toddler.
They have the whole story of the house and its spirits now but I don't think they asked the homeowners to do anything to help them pass over.
I may contact her to see what she thinks, I don't want trouble but if I can help them I will.
I will start a journal on all this JP, its an excellent idea, thanks.
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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2009, 12:32:46 AM »

Ask God to be with you on this Natalie. Pray for guidance. Best wishes to you and yours and may God surround you with love.


...JP
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« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2009, 01:01:32 AM »

Natalie, i have always been intentionally vague on my beliefs because i like to try to get people to think, not react.  i must tell you that messing with the spirit world is a dangerous thing.  i believe that there is absolute good and absolute evil.  angles and demons, if you will.  evil is the great deceiver.  i do believe that we have a choice in our spiritual life.  we open ourselves to good/God, or we open ourselves to evil/Satan.  most people would not open themselves to evil intentionally.  thus the need for the deception of the demons.  what you see and feel is real.  it just may not be what you think it is.

are there ghosts?  perhaps.  if there are, they do not need our help to reach their destination.  it was determined before they died. 
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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2009, 10:21:28 AM »

Kathy, I do understand what you are saying and I believe in that too. That is why I have never done anything with it so far but I feel guilty that there is a little girl involved, why would God want her to be left behind? I have so many questions in all of this.
I have never wanted to do anything that can let anything else in, such as a seance (sp?) or anything, that scares the daylights out of me.
I just don't know why they would be here. Why do you think they were left here on purpose, like predetermined before they died? I would be interested in hearing more about that.
I have heard that if they have unfinished business it will happen or if they don't realize they are dead it can happen but I am not sure why else.
Is this their form of purgatory?
I can't imagine why a little girl would have to repent unless its for the sins of her family, I just don't know how all this works.
I know what you are saying about deception, it seems that this would be a child though. My children have seen and talked to her, she asks them to play with her and that woman has seen her and says she is lonely. But you have a point and I understand that is how deception works as well.
I worry that I have some responsibility if I know about them and don't do anything.
For the most part, I don't feel scared here. I mean in my normal everyday life its fine, once in a while something will give you a jolt but we are use to the regular interactions here.
I just don't like the basement and thats where we found the headstone. I wonder what that headstone is about, but it doesn't have anything written on it.
The fact that it just appeared after more than 10 years is so strange that I wonder if it was suppose to be telling me something.
JP, I will ask God to be with me on all of this, I will pray and ask for his guidance. Thank you.
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2009, 11:27:01 AM »

ask yourself why someone would want you to believe that god left this girl behind.  what might that do to your faith and your opinion of god.  evil lies.  that should always be your first thought when you evaluate anything in any realm.
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« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2009, 12:47:04 AM »

Kathy is correct, there are good and evil spirits and it can be very easy to allow the evil ones to take over your life, I've known it to happen and it almost happened to me.  But there is a way to exert and maintain control of the commications between realms on the spiritual level but it is not for the amatuer.

One thing about evil voices, they keep increasing in number is control is not exerted and will eventually gain dominence, they keep suggesting more and more outrageous things and one person can be being harrassed by hundreds of them.
 
Natalie, those people who "live" in your house are there because they are confused or lost as to where they're supposed to be and a consequence are reliving a period of their lives over and over again.  If you see one, and if the historian can give you the names of the individuals, just call them by name and tell them to look for the light, that the answer is on the other side of the light.  You will then have or see something similar to what is shown on the ghost whisperer when she sends someone over.  That part of that particular show is most likely based on someone's actual experiences.
You can send the entire "family" over.  Often, when a family is involved sending one will automatically send the others because of the spiritual ties.

Kathy, this type of stuff has little to do with any religious sect or denomination, it is universal to all mankind, regardless of Mormon, Catholic, Protesant, Hindu, Islam, etc.
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« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2009, 10:41:17 AM »

Brian I will have to check out that show one time. I gave up television a few years ago and have no idea of what is on tv anymore.
I know what you mean by them living a part of their lives over and over again because I heard what sounded like someone coming in from work one night.
Everyone in the family says they can feel someone sit on the edge of their beds while they are sleeping. I have felt it too, just like someone sits down and the egde of the bed sinks down.
Sometimes the dogs will stare at "something" and bark like crazy and back up, they will keep looking at me and then at "whatever" and bark and growl.
I think most of the time what we hear is a child.
After my grandmother past away everyone was coming to my house after the funeral.
I was busy preparing the house and I asked the kids not to make any messes.
I could hear someone playing upstairs, you could hear all the toys in the toybox being dumped  out and it sounded like a truck going back and forth along the floor.
I yelled at them to stop making a mess and my husband came in the room and said why are you yelling the kids are sitting on the couch watching tv with me?
Sometimes you can hear a ball bouncing over and over.
One night I was sitting on the couch with my husband and I heard one of the kids come down the stairs from their room and I yelled out to them and no one came in the room but them I heard footsteps going back up again.
A minute later I heard the footsteps come back down and I yelled for them to come in and see me but they didn't, I heard them start back up the stairs so I jumped up to follow them in case someone was sick or whatever and there wasn't anyone there.
I ran up the stairs and checked their rooms and everyone was sound asleep.
When I came back down the stairs I found a doll sitting on one of the bottom of the steps, it wasn't placed there but looked like it was dropped.
My daughters were well past the doll playing age and I was pregnant with my youngest daughter and these dolls were put away in a closet.
Just gives me the idea that it could be that little girl.
I have a picture of her. I don't know why but my neighbor who is the town historian thought I would like to have a picture of the girl that lived here,  he also gave me a picture of the house from way back then with the family standing on the front lawn.
I can see the black man that my daughter sees in that picture and there is a woman with a baby buggy, but I am not sure about the rest of them. Its getting very faded, but I don't recognize the rest of them.



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« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 01:06:34 AM »

Ghosts are spirits caught between.  That is they are still in the earthly realm but most people can't see them as they are normally transparent.  Ghosts can make themselves known, visually, physically, and audiably.  Spirits caught between are usually either there because of a tramatic event near or at death, because they believe that's where they're suppose to be (don't recognized the existance of the spirit world), or they are locked in a turmoil.  They can be instructed how to reach the other side as I've indicated.

I knew one gentleman whose mother had died.  About a year later his father, who had pssed before the mother came to him and told him he had to go out the cemetary and talk to his mother.  Seems her spirit was still united with her body, even in death.  So he went to the cemetary and he could suddenly see his mother lying in the coffin, spirit and body.  He called out to her several times, finely she woke up and asked what he wanted as she was waiting for Gabriel's horn to blow.  Once he had his mother's attention his father was then able to appear and take his mother with him to the other side.

My parents died several years ago, to this day, once in awhile I can still feel them set down on the bed I'm laying in. I still sleep in the bed my father died in.  It's kind of a confort to be reminded they are still so close.

I know another man who has 2 sisters, the sister are very competative and always into one-ups-manship.  As their mother was dying the sisters made the mother promise that she would return in a year after her death and tell one of them about it.  A year later the man was sitting in the cab of this truck when his mother appeared to him. She took him on a tour of the spirit world and told him that she had kept her promise to return and tell one of her children how it was, but that she came to him because going to either of his sisters would have caused more problems between them. 

There are a lot of such experiences out there but people keep them to themselves because they think others will think them crazy and as a result we've lost much of our ability to communicate with spirits.  There are also a good number of people who've died and lived to tell about it.  They see the spirit world for themselves and at some point, if the body is intact (survivable) they are given the option to return and complete their life's mission.  We only here from those who chose to return not those who chose to stay.

For John (Beemaster): I'm sorry I miss out on a lot of the tongue-in-cheek stuff that gets written but I have an excuse.  Ever go to th doctor with a pain and he asks you, on a scale of 1 (low) to 10 (hi) to rate your pain?  My doctor doesn't ask me that anymore, only the specialist I occassionally get referred to.  I look at the pain scale like the Richter Scale where 2 is 10 times worse than 1 and 3 is 10 times worse than 2 and so forth.  Level 10 is at that point where the human body can no longer handle the pain and unconsciousness or coma results.  Due to all the physical ailments and injuries I've experienced in my life my normal pain level is about level 7, 24/7.  Pain pills manage to keep it bearable, barely.  On a real good good day I can be a level 5 and actually have a sense of humor but most of the time it is more like operating in a daze.
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« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 08:59:19 AM »

I am curious to know whether they realize we are here. If they are going about their business, reliving parts of their lives and we don't exist for them and occasionally they may see or hear one of us like we do with them.
Ever see the movie called the Others?
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« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2009, 04:48:58 PM »

Brian,

Sometimes I wonder what those that don't experience constant pain would rate the pain that we sufferers experience all the time. After all we have learned to live with it and put up with it. But just imagine if another was suddenly hit with it.  shocked

For the longest time I thought it was normal to have pain in the head and that everybody had it. Imagine my surprise when I learned that there were actually people out there with out pain.
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« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2009, 11:32:46 PM »

Brian,

Sometimes I wonder what those that don't experience constant pain would rate the pain that we sufferers experience all the time. After all we have learned to live with it and put up with it. But just imagine if another was suddenly hit with it.  shocked

For the longest time I thought it was normal to have pain in the head and that everybody had it. Imagine my surprise when I learned that there were actually people out there with out pain.

I hear ya!  IWhen I ran a restuarant my teenage workers would start complaining how much their back hurt by the end of the shift.  I always said, "Trade yah, straight up."  Never got any takers.  I occassionally had employees come into my office while I was doing paperwork and put their hand on my shoulder.  They would suddenly yell and pull their hand back, "What was that?"  "Muscle spasms," I'd say.  "Do those happen a lot?" was the next question.  "All the time,"  I would answer.  Then there would be those days when I was reaching for something on the top shelf and I'd get a Gollywhopper in the lower back.  I'd drop like I had been shot and just lay there for a few minutes until I could get the spasm undercontrol (mental effort).  Made for a lot of round eyes on the employees.    drowning
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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2009, 10:19:11 PM »

Many people see and hear and feel things that are out of the ordinary.

Guardian Angels certainly have been recorded for centuries. I have a collection of these stories in my head from my readings. GAs rarely appear once, they seem to hang around for life. If they leave for good, they usually say good bye! They appear on the battlefield, during storms, car crashes, all sorts of things, especially events that are happening quickly and with otherwise fatal consequences. In times of extreme peril, the brain is either in flight or fight mode. There is no time for daydreams, hallucinations or any other rational explanation.

The story of the three year old daughter whose father died in "The perfect Storm" of movie and book fame sums up a spirit trapped. She was asleep, woke up and her dead father was in the room, told her he got snagged on a hook, couldnt get out of the boat, he drowned, that was it.  Highly unusual for a naieve 3 year old to have such a nightmare. Her mother has no doubt it was real. So her father was one of these trapped spirits, for sure IMO. Children often come across these spirits after someone has died without saying good bye. Wives and Mothers know when their loved one is killed. Sometimes a feeling, sometimes the departed appears in a dream to say goodbye, the person immediately awakes knowing it is all true. Sometimes these spirits appear in broad daylight, a figure standing under a tree, watching, then vanishes.

Now to believe either or both exist, the Bhuddists might be on the right track re a persons spirit, soul, is a separate thing to the body and can exist after death. Now if everything is a result of the brain, i.e. electrical activity, whos to say this electricity cant leave the body and find another home?

Scientists will tell you energy can not be created or destroyed, that the electrical energy of the brain is changed to heat and leaves the body, fair enough.

But if ball lightning can exist, a globe of electricity than can pass through walls and remain intact, act of its own accord, and given that scientists cant really explain ball lightning, then I reckon electricity can leave the brain after death and wander about.

If I can attach electrodes to your scone and read your brain waves, how long until I can read them remotely? Then how long until I can ALTER them remotely? The Russians and Czechs have been working on this for decades and are convinced they can change peoples thoughts. Many old Eastern Bloc countries use psychics to solve crimes all the time and think nothing of it.

There are so many things we dont understand. Not long ago the car wasnt heard of, man flying was considered impossible, the sound barrier would kill you, go to the moon? jeeze your crazy.

As I have said before, it wont belong until we are talking with Dolphins, it will happen in my lifetime. Its all just electricity in the end.
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« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2009, 11:41:37 PM »

Quote
Now to believe either or both exist, the Bhuddists might be on the right track re a persons spirit, soul, is a separate thing to the body and can exist after death.

The body is separate from the body.  It existed prior to the body being born, actually chose who and when, and exists after death.  If you've ever encountered someone who's had a life after life experience (coming back from dearh) they will tell you that they existed after death in a shape the same as the human body but solely of energy.

If you've ever seen a ghost you have to recognize that the being seen exists in an energy form.
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« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2009, 03:58:36 AM »

Too deep for me BDB!
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