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Author Topic: Facts {and Theories} about trap outs  (Read 13780 times)
wmoze
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« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2010, 03:50:16 PM »

Thanks for your input.  At this time, I think I'm going to wait until next spring and see If I can get them then rather than waste time and money trying to feed a weak hive over winter.  It's been hot and dry here so don't want to chance it.
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Dave360
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« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2010, 08:04:27 PM »

read about trap outs from this post and have set up trap out didn't have any brood at first and bees weren't going in box put in brood 2nd day with division feeder bees started going into box 1 1/2 weeks into trap out lots of bees in box  no queen cells put in frame of brood with eggs,larva and attached bees refilled division feeder and added protein patty  week later no queen cells no eggs left some uncapped larva (big larva) saw no queen (have to check on ladder) but no fresh eggs or young larva refilled feeder
 could the bees just not care they don't care they are queen less  should i try to buy queen to give them or try another frame with eggs or will they still not make a queen bees are very docile not loud and aggitated

  any help would be appreciated


   Thanks David
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iddee
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« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2010, 09:00:38 PM »

Your time line is too vague for me to assess what happened. If it was 1 1/2 weeks from installing eggs til you checked it the first time, you may have a queen. It is 13 days MAX until the queen emerges, after you install the eggs. It can be as few as 10.

I would remove the feeder and install another frame of EGGS. If they didn't raise a queen, or if she didn't survive, they will start queen cells. Check the frame you install EXACTLY 7 days after install. You will know then if they have queen cells.

Otherwise, Give me an exact timeline and I may be able to tell you more explicitly what is happening.
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« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2010, 10:11:41 PM »

One very basic rule of thumb " If they won't make a queen they already think they have one".

Scott
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Dave360
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« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2010, 10:12:13 PM »

idde thanks for your reply i don't know how long from first frame of brood to the second frame but i though it was about 1 1/2 weeks but i thought it was all capped brood no bees attached but it was raining when i took and put in but know for sure i put in second frame of brood with eggs and tiny larva with attached bees (sprayed lightly with vanilla sugar water but not one eggs ) a week ago sunday and when i put second frame in i checked and there were no queen cells either new or open then checked second frame 7 days latter no queen cells
 
 forgot to mention on tree i am doing trap out saturday  1 week ago (day bf second frame of brood )there was a cluster of bees that didnt go in hive but gathered at bottom of tree about 1 foot from ground (cone at eye level) i brushed them in plastic nuc box and sort of poured in hive  

 Thanks again
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Dave360
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« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2010, 10:14:57 PM »

so they couldn't just be shook up or lazey

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iddee
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« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2010, 10:34:21 PM »

I would have searched the group at the base of tree carefully. It likely contained a queen. Humans are lazy, not bees. Give them what they need and they will work.
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« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2010, 03:51:15 PM »

iddee  and scott thanks for the info

 Scott you were right they wont make a queen if they have one

 iddee you were right i guess there was a queen in cluster at base of tree checked trap out to day and there is a frame one side caped brood  other mixed caped and larva

 thanks for your advise also started trap out 06/27/10 but still have bees in tree

  Thanks again David
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Apis_M_Rescue
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« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2010, 01:51:10 PM »

That box won't swarm. The first queen out will kill all the rest.

If you get there before the first one comes out and you have 7 or more frames of bees, you can remove that box, cutout a queen cell or two, install it in a second box, and start your second hive with cells instead of eggs.

Idee how does one go about cutting out these queen cells w/o damaging them? Then how would they be mounted in new trap out hive on the frame?

Am starting new trap out today in a exterior vent 11 ft up on wall of apartment/ condo complex.

Also when starting trap out where should swarm lures be placed around to possibly catch the absconding swarming queen & workers?

Am not sure dearth is quite here yet but its getting hotter at times & drier, so hope this trap out goes only 6-7wks. A moderate amount of activity seen so hoping not a large hive. This is my 3rd trap out & learn new things everytime.

Cheers, David S
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iddee
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« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2010, 05:37:09 PM »

I use a sharp knife. Cut about an inch to the right of the cell, with the knife angled to the left.
Cut vertically about 2 inches. Then on the left side, make a matching vertical cut with the knife slanted to the right. Cut across the top and bottom, and remove the triangle of comb containing the cell.

Cut a matching triangle from the comb it is to go in and place it in. Press the edges enough to hold it in place.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Dave360
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2010, 09:36:23 PM »

is it possible to cut out (and stll use) a queen cell built on plasticell

  Thanks Dave
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iddee
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« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2010, 07:25:55 AM »

I never use plastic, so I don't know.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Apis_M_Rescue
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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2010, 03:25:56 AM »

I use a sharp knife. Cut about an inch to the right of the cell, with the knife angled to the left.
Cut vertically about 2 inches. Then on the left side, make a matching vertical cut with the knife slanted to the right. Cut across the top and bottom, and remove the triangle of comb containing the cell.

Cut a matching triangle from the comb it is to go in and place it in. Press the edges enough to hold it in place.


Great tips Iddee. Hope to try on my next trap out box if I haven't inadvertently placed orig. queen in it & queens are started. Started the trap out this Thursday 7-29-10, so will see how progressing. Heres some of the pics:

Glendale Jackson Arms Vent Hive

Cheers, David S
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BBees
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« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2010, 08:30:41 PM »

First, thank you sooooo much Iddee. I started a "triple" trap out (yes, three colonies on three different corners of the same house!) today, and only because of your posts, did I feel confident enough to even give this a try. I've never done this before today, so I read all your threads about 5 times, and hope I do you proud with my attempt. Time will tell.

On to my question - Any "theories" as to why the queen usually absconds instead of following her workers into the trap hive?

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iddee
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« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2010, 08:46:32 PM »

When the bees leave the cone, they go to the field. Upon their return home, they cannot get in, so they go in the trap box. When the queen leaves, she also goes to the "field", or the woods. To a tree as a swarm, or whatever. She never returns, therefore she doesn't take up in the trap box. She absconds with the few bees left, as she doesn't know all the others are just outside. All she knows is she has no food and few bees, so she's getting out of dodge fast.

PS. Pics and follow up posts are highly sought after here. We expect you to keep us up to date on the trapouts.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2010, 09:20:59 PM »

Iddee, thanks again. I'll definitely keep you posted and I'll try to get some pictures. Fortunately, this trap out is not far away, so I'll be able to check regularly. I love the way you can make sense with your answers. Keep up the good work for everyone's sake.

Your very appreciative student,
Steve
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BBees
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« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2010, 10:19:11 PM »

Just an update,

Sorry but no pictures. Of the three traps I set up. I ended up with two colonies. I even found new queens in each colony at about 3 weeks after setting them up. Unfortunately, the queens were gone when I collected up both hives last week. I had a better chance to inspect the hives today since it warmed up to 70F. Each has a good 5 frames of bees, plenty of honey and pollen, but no queens or larva found. In fact they both have a lot of cells with 2 or three eggs and the only cells capped are drone cells - I suspect laying workers?

So, seeing how it's so late in the season, any thought about how to handle these hives (if at all)?

Thanks,
Steve
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iddee
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« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2010, 10:36:05 PM »

Sorry for the queen loss. About the only thing you can do now is combine them with another hive and split in the spring.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2010, 07:16:39 AM »

Not all bad, the bees are out of the house so the homeowner is real happy. Even if these bees don't make it, I've got some nice drawn comb with honey and pollen, which at my stage is a real plus.

I understand combining a laying worker colony with a queen-rite colony is a little tricky and dangerous for the existing queen. Would it be cruel to just shake out the laying worker frames somewhere else in the yard, remove their hive boxes, and steal their frames of stores for a queen-rite colony that's a little light going into winter? By the 10-day forecast, it looks like today would be the last day to try something like this. It should be in the 60's, but then the temps are going to dive into the 40's for the next week. I'm thinking (hoping) the "shaken" bees will disperse between the other 20 hives in the yard without the force to kill any queens. The yard I dragged these trap-out bees to is my "nursery" with my first batch of queens I raised this year. Kind of overly protective of them like a new parent. Hate to jeopardize the queens with some "goofy" bees. Am I thinking right? Or is there a safe way to combine the colonies.

Thanks, Steve
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iddee
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« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2010, 09:00:12 AM »

Every beek does things differently. When I have a laying worker hive, I shake them out 2 feet in front of my weakest hive. They know it isn't their home, and go into it with caution and humility, not aggressiveness. Therefore, they are accepted.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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