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Author Topic: Why do a trapout  (Read 5889 times)
iddee
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« on: February 25, 2009, 02:38:35 PM »

If you are looking for the genetics of the colony, a trap out will not work.
There are two reasons for doing a trap out.
 
If you have a hive you like the genetics of, but don't want to make a split from your hive, a trap out will give you the workers to raise a queen, or a few queens, from that hive.

Of course, the other reason is to remove the bees from an unwanted area.

Doing a removal is much quicker, more complete, as it also removes the comb, and saves a lot of travel. There are times, however, that a removal is not practical. It is those times you use a trap out to obtain more bees, and of the genetics you want, rather than the unknown. I have never worked with AFB, but think trapping may be the answer to removing them. Consider a colony established in an apartment complex, or business complex, where there are people coming and going constantly. A removal may endanger any number of people. During a trap out, the first couple of hours may see a large number of bees in the air, but they are confused, not angry, and are only looking for their home. I have never received a sting during this time.

Then there is the construction aspect. When they are in masonry, or historic woodwork, or other hard to replace material, a trap out is the way to go.

Next post will be materials needed, after answering any questions coming from this post.
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JP
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 04:22:17 PM »

Iddee, just thought of another bldg in need of a trap out, will talk later.


...JP
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 12:12:00 AM »

If you are looking for the genetics of the colony, a trap out will not work.
 

I remember reading of one technique where you route a tube(similar to what people use for observation hives I suppose) from the only entrance you leave them through a modified inner cover place on an empty hive.  The bees are forced to use the hive body as an entrance and begin to draw comb in it.  According to the article they would eventually move the queen into the hive body.  At which point you put a one way entrance on and trap out the remaining bees, then remove the tube connecting the the hive body to the old entrance.  After a short period of time you unblock the entrance and allow them to rob out their old location.  I think it said this method could take up to three months to work, but don't quote me on that.  Have you ever tried or heard of someone using this technique?  If so how did it work out?
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iddee
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 11:05:46 AM »

I've never tried it and don't know anyone who has succeeded in doing it. Here's why I haven't.

I have seen them built between floor joists and the homeowner sealed their entrance. Naturally, they just found another hole a couple of joists away. They did not move the broodnest closer to the entrance. They just traveled through two empty sections between joists to get to their original home.
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 12:53:49 PM »

Didn't you post on a different thread that the queen can and will come out with the hive?  I'll have to double check that....
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iddee
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 01:29:30 PM »

Yes, the queen will come out, but will normally head for parts unknown with the last of the bees. She doesn't stop at the trap box.
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 11:54:58 AM »

Ok, I think Im getting this trap out thing. Is it the same concept of a bee escape you would put on the hive? I also see by your post that I will not get the queen. Right now I only have 1 hive that has any amount of brood to put into an empty box but I dont want to take away from them yet because it is still too early in the year. Is there any other way to get the bes out without taking the brood from another hive? since the queen wont be with them will they produce one, probably not without the frame of brood?
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 12:18:02 PM »

Without supplying a queen or eggs/brood to the trap hive,  you will end up with a laying worker.
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2009, 12:53:32 PM »

So I trap them all out except for the queen would I be able to dump them into anotehr hive, kind of like adding a package?
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 12:55:27 PM »

You can do that as long as it is quick.  Anything longer than a week or two and you flirting with laying workers.
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iddee
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2009, 04:27:23 PM »

You can use a frame from your one hive on the first tree. Wait 7 days and you will have a number of queen cells on that one frame. You can cut them out and put one in each box for the other trees. Only one frame of eggs used for 4 to 8 traps.
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Shawn
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2009, 11:25:48 PM »

Let me see  Undecided I take one frame of brood from my hive and put it into an empty body. Set up the trap on the tree with the hive body next to it. The bees come out, or back to the hive but they cant get back in. The bees find the hive body with my brood and think its theirs. How long do I have to keep the hive body there? Most of all the foragers will have left the hive and now be in my hive body. Queen wont come out so Im guessing the nursery bees wont come out either. Being a public park and lots of rif raf Im affraid there wont be a hive body if I leave it there. Again sorry for the questions but I want to do the best I can so they dont gas the bees, also great info just incase a homeowner does not want any cutting done.
P.S.
Does the queen stay in the hive as if nothing is going on or does she leave attempting to find her sisters?
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iddee
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 08:13:39 AM »

Your questions tell me you haven't read the posts. The answers to all those are in the 5 posts.
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2009, 10:46:57 AM »

Alright, I just read them ALL. I guess I was missing the "theory one" because it was further down and I kept going back to the same post. The only problem Ill have is the rif raf in the park taking or dumping over the hive. I actually went and checked out the tree yesterday and the way it looks all the bees have already left because the comb has fallen to the bottom of the tree and is all dried up.
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iddee
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 02:08:31 PM »

The one tree I did in a city park was taped off by city workers. Anyone getting inside the yellow tape would have been ticketed. Luckily, no one bothered it.

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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2009, 08:11:47 PM »

?
got a call today for what would probably be a pretty easy cutout, but the guy doesn't want to cut into his wall.  family stuff going on.  i advised him to leave them alone for now if they were not bothering anyone, they have been there for 3  years...,and to call me later.

it sounds like it might also be a candidate for a trapout, but what would happen to all that stuff in the wall?  i know we kind of hit this subject before, but i would be concerned about leaving 3 years worth of honey in the wall of a house.
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2009, 08:17:23 PM »

?
got a call today for what would probably be a pretty easy cutout, but the guy doesn't want to cut into his wall.  family stuff going on.  i advised him to leave them alone for now if they were not bothering anyone, they have been there for 3  years...,and to call me later.

it sounds like it might also be a candidate for a trapout, but what would happen to all that stuff in the wall?  i know we kind of hit this subject before, but i would be concerned about leaving 3 years worth of honey in the wall of a house.

The techniques I have read about(hopefully Iddee will chime in with actual experience) involves removing the funnel and letting the trapped out bees rob their old hive out.  I'm not sure how you are sure that the queen isn't left alive with a few nurse bees and then just have them move back in, but all the ones I read mention them robbing out the honey.  You're right though a full store of honey would be trouble.  Even if it didn't run down the wall on some warm spell, it would be a tremendous draw to ants, yellow jackets and other pests.
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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2009, 08:20:04 PM »

Kathy, and fermentedhiker, did you read this one?

"Either by returning myself, or from the homeowner, I want an update on the trap the day after the set up, then once or twice weekly thereafter. I am looking for a mass exodus, where the cone is packed with bees trying to exit all at once, and are getting out, not a blocked cone, or a full day with no bees leaving. If the latter, it means we missed seeing the first. When either happens, I wait 3 or 4 days, then remove the cone. I will explain to the homeowner that they will see many bees returning to the house, but they are only robbing the honey out. Call me when they do not see a be go in the house for a full day. I will then check it myself by observing flight for an hour or more. If the bees are traveling to and from the field, with no action at all in the house entrance, I will seal the entrance and remove the new hive."
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2009, 08:25:22 PM »

sorry, i missed that. 

after  you do the trapout and before you seal it up, have you ever had a swarm move in?  this guy is in an area where there will be pollination hive and swarms will happen for sure.  he's also a long way from me.  don't think i want to get into this job, but it would be a good learning experience.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2009, 08:32:01 PM »

Out of many, many traps, yes, one did, but only that one. It was in the sixth week of a trap. The hive was over 20 years old, and had been occupied the last time for at least 4 years. I'm sure there were a number of feral hives in the area from previous swarms from this hive. It was also adjacent to a public park with many old oak trees. Perfect area to hold many feral colonies.

I think I would wait until after swarm season or do a cut out. When scouting these removals, always be ready to turn them down if anything is amiss. I have had many owners change their tune drastically when I turned it down. Many I did under my rules, many I walked away from. Never be hesitant about walking away. They need the service much more than you need the bees.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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