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Author Topic: Requeening  (Read 3799 times)

Offline rast

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Requeening
« on: February 23, 2009, 09:01:21 PM »
 Re; the hive I spoke of in the topic "aggressive bees". I picked up a queen tonight on the way home from work. I took a frame of uncapped brood from another hive, pulled a frame of pollen and honey from the middle of the mean hive. Looked for a queen again. Put the queen cage in between the brood frame and next frame. Closed it up.
 My wife gets home, comes down to the barn fussing about a bee pinging her alll the way from the house. Next thing I know my ear is buzzing and on fire. Boy, I hope they take this queen!   
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
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Offline mgmoore7

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 09:19:05 PM »
Did you find the current queen and kill her? 

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 09:39:51 PM »
Whether you are placing the queen in the hive after killing the old queen, or installing a queen in a made up nuc, it's still best to wait a day before introducing the queen.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 10:55:51 PM »
Bjorn is right.  You not only need them queenless.  You need them queenless at least overnight.  Especially with a hot hive.

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Offline rast

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 07:20:25 PM »
 I may be VERY wrong, but at this point I believe the hive is already queenless. I know they can be very difficult (especially for me) to find, I have looked for her three times. The hive population is falling pretty quickly at this time. There are no eggs or brood, capped or uncapped. Just some empty, never capped supersession cells. I guess now time will tell.
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Online kathyp

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 07:27:10 PM »
being queenless could explain why they are aggressive.  how are they treating the caged queen?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Offline iddee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 07:40:31 PM »
I agree, all the signs say it is queenless and has been for some time. I would think about leaving both corks in the queen cage for a day or two longer, just in case some workers are developing ovaries, even if they aren't laying yet. Just to be on the safe side.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline TwT

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 08:02:52 PM »
I agree, all the signs say it is queenless and has been for some time. I would think about leaving both corks in the queen cage for a day or two longer, just in case some workers are developing ovaries, even if they aren't laying yet. Just to be on the safe side.

I agree but leave the corks in 3-4 days is what I would do, I have introduced russian queens in by leaving the corks in about 5 days then letting them get released, worked out fine
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Online kathyp

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2009, 08:08:34 PM »
i used to do 3 but had better luck last year with 5.  no harm in leaving her caged.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline rast

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 09:11:42 PM »
 She is staying caged til they get her out. Well maybe when I look in it Sat., if they haven't ate the candy and things look right, I'll let her out.  Dave Miksa told me to put a piece of masking tape over the candy to slow em down. He thought it was queenless also. He said they will eat through masking tape. He also told me that if there was a useless queen still in the hive there was a 50/50 chance they would take the new one after about five days. He said the trick was in putting brood in the hive and her next to it.
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 09:18:38 PM »
If Dave Miksa doesn't know, I doubt you will find one that does. What he said is what I would do.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline rast

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2009, 09:23:50 PM »
 Thats what I figured. I tried to get his son Ted to come over and help me last night. He was just too wore out though.
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
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Offline rast

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2009, 04:07:39 PM »
 Day 5, shes still in the cage, about 1/8" of candy left, not a lot of bees on the cage.
 Let her out??
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2009, 04:33:22 PM »
1/8 in??? She will likely be out tonight. I wouldn't disturb the colony again for another 6 days. At that time, you should have either success, "eggs and hatching brood", or failure, "dead hive". Another disturbance this close to release may well insure a failure.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2009, 04:47:16 PM »
Day 5, shes still in the cage, about 1/8" of candy left, not a lot of bees on the cage.
 Let her out??

rast, if there is not many bees on the cage, it may take days for the bees to eat through the rest of the candy.

I like the finger method. If you can take your finger and gently move the bees from the screen by stroking their back, they are probably going to accept her. If the bees have a death grip on the screen and will not move, they are not taking to her.

At this point, it sounds like they may be starting to ignore her. Are you sure they are not raising queen cells on that frame you moved over?

I don't see the benefit of waiting 3, 5 or some longer period of time. I've never had the need to keep a queen caged up that long for introducing a queen. Yes, they may never take her if the raise their own queen, or if there is a queen you failed to see. But this whole wait another week, or don't disturb or they will kill her, is questionable in my mind. I introduce, cage, move queens, etc., a thousand time a year and never have the concerns or the long drawn out waiting period some are suggesting.

Let her out. If they are taking her after five days, you got something else going on there.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 05:00:13 PM »
If you lose one out of a thousand, no big deal. If you lose one out of two or three, it is a big deal.

Apples and Oranges
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline BjornBee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2009, 05:10:23 PM »
If you lose one out of a thousand, no big deal. If you lose one out of two or three, it is a big deal.

Apples and Oranges

No its not. One out of a thousand in the same rate you should have for one. What your saying is that if you lose 1 in a thousand, then why all the concerns out such a slim chance in introducing one queen.

I'm just saying iddee, that if you can not get a queen introduced in a week, there are probably other issues.

I've had people tell me they waited so long for the queen to get out that by the time she did, they had raised another queen. And I'll bet that if a frame of eggs was moved over, then queen cells are there. And if the queen does get out, they will eventually kill her. Seen it many times. 
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Offline iddee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2009, 07:09:49 PM »
That sounds entirely different. He's on the 5th day. If she comes out tonight, that will be less than a week. I just do not like disturbing a colony the first few days she is out. I like to give her a few days to lay before getting them agitated.

I think we are arguing over whether it's 6 or a half dozen.  :-P
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2009, 07:15:23 PM »
iddee..who's arguing. I call it entertainment... :-D
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Offline rast

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Re: Requeening
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2009, 08:17:02 PM »
Now, now, boys :-D.
 I agree with both of you. I poked a small hole in what whas left of the candy and closed it back up. I'll look on the landing board for her in the AM. Open it back up next Sat. again and see what we got. She was/is in one of those plastic queen cages. Not my laying worker cage.
I just wish I was better at spotting existing queens. Just the fact that this hive had no brood, capped or uncapped and no eggs makes me know the previous queen is either worthless or dead. Plus the fact that these bees are meaner than a rattlesnake.
 Thanks
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
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