Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
December 21, 2014, 10:22:20 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 8 vs. 10 frame  (Read 2662 times)
Pond Creek Farm
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 566


Location: Republic, MO


« on: February 10, 2009, 09:15:27 PM »

I am intersted in learning more about the differences between 8 and 10 frame equipment.  The obvious difference is weight.  This advantage is self explanatory for the 8, but is not all that big of a plus for me.  What other advantages are there to the use of 8 frame equipment? 
Logged

Brian
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13967


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 10:05:32 PM »

>What other advantages are there to the use of 8 frame equipment? 

The width is a better match to the width of a typical winter cluster so they clean up the food behind them better than in a ten frame.  I think the winter better.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 10:30:31 PM »

Advantages of 8 frame:

1. lighter weight, empty or full.
2. better center of balance, it's closer to the body making carrying easier.
3. 100 frames fills 12 supers instead of 10,
4. Less open space within the hive putting the stores closer to the winter cluster.
5. Each frame still holds as much honey as any frame in a 10 frame hive.
6. The savings on medical bills from strained backs is important, the conversion to all 8 frame mediums pays for itself in futher reduced medical bills.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
hollybees
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 177


Location: Holly, Michigan


« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 09:26:20 AM »


I like this 8 frame Idea it makes sense to me.
I've got 8 medium supers I have not put together yet.
What would the dimension's be it I wanted to modify them?

Paul
Logged
BGhoney
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 37


Location: Battle Ground Wa


« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 07:35:04 PM »

You can use standard 10 frame equipment.  Cut 1 inch high density foam into 2 pieces the same size as frames and then they won't be so heavy.  They may winter better. And they won't be so top heavy.
Logged
gmcharlie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 244


Location: Southern IL


« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 07:48:24 PM »

okay  now I am confused,  your useing a  smaller super to only hold 8 frames?  I thought you were changing the spacing to get deeper honey cells?
Logged
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 08:57:36 PM »

The most common size for the 8 frame hives is a 13 3/4 inch width.  That leaves a little more spacing for frame manipulation than is found in the 10 frames.  In a 10 frame there is 1/2 inch of manipulation space on each side of the frames when they are pushed together and centered in the hive, for an 8 frame there is 5/8 inch.
Other widths used in 8 frame hive construction is 13 7/8, 14 0 and 14 1/4, in the later you can use 9 frames.
The rest of the dimensions are the same as for 10 frames.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
hollybees
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 177


Location: Holly, Michigan


« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 10:25:31 AM »

Advantages of 8 frame:

1. lighter weight, empty or full.
2. better center of balance, it's closer to the body making carrying easier.
3. 100 frames fills 12 supers instead of 10,
4. Less open space within the hive putting the stores closer to the winter cluster.
5. Each frame still holds as much honey as any frame in a 10 frame hive.
6. The savings on medical bills from strained backs is important, the conversion to all 8 frame mediums pays for itself in futher reduced medical bills.

Great breakdown Brian,
Number (4) I think caught my attention the most as far as the bees go, the rest would be pretty much for us.
All together it sounds good.

It would not be too hard to modify a 10 frame, but I'm a little fuzzy on the extra spacing on each end.
What is the max. (or preferred) space you can leave?
I only have a 1/4" space per side now, and one hive builds comb on the inside wall right where the wires in the foundation are.
Which is a pain because you can't get the last frame back in w/o scraping it off the walls 1st, if you don't it damages the comb.
They don't like when I do it either...

Can you straighten me out on this point.

Thanks,
Paul



Logged
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 12:26:07 PM »

I thought it would never happen, but it seems that time tells that tale.  Some may recall my reply to the thread about winter losses.  I had 9 colonies going into winter, now have only one, going gangbusters.

I have some extremely serious thinking that needs to go on now whether I want to change all my 10 frame deeps to 8 frame deeps.  Serious consideration.  I currently have the ability to lift easily a 10 frame deep box of bees and brood.  I cannot lift a 10 frame deep of honey, so I take each frame of honey out when doing the harvest and move it to an extra box hanging around me that is in a wheelbarrow, hee, hee, smiling.

We do not grow younger, too bad eh?  Our strength does not get better as we age (once we hit those more golden years, I am 56 years of age now, we all know that the muscles decline in strength).  Perhaps now is my chance to take all those deeps and convert them to 8 frame deeps.  Some really deep pondering must take place on how I want to operate my apiary in the future.  I am leaning toward conversion to 8 frame deeps from the 10.

BUT....now this is a big but....I am not the carpenter, that is the part of my wonderful Husband.  I am not sure if I can get him to do this work of cutting down the boxes, but....maybe a little convincing will do, I know that my Husband will move heaven and earth to make me a happy woman, he has proven this time and time again.

Oh, by the way, we celebrated on Valentine's day our 28th anniversary, smiling (sorry to be off topic).  Have that great, most wonderful life, day, health, try to attract that like there was narry a tomorrow.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13967


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 01:00:18 PM »

>It would not be too hard to modify a 10 frame

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm

> but I'm a little fuzzy on the extra spacing on each end.

It's just the way they've been done for more than a century and a half.

>What is the max. (or preferred) space you can leave?

If you get more than 1 3/8" then it's a nine frame.  Smiley  Brushy Mt. and Miller Bee Supply boxes are 13 3/4".  Mann Lake and Better bee boxes are 14".  Both work fine.  You COULD make them as small as 12 7/8" and still get eight frames in with proper bee space on the end frames. (3 1/16" on each end in addition to what is built into the end bars).

>I only have a 1/4" space per side now, and one hive builds comb on the inside wall right where the wires in the foundation are.

Bees will mess up the end comb no matter what, but in theory it should be 3 1/16" in addition to the end bars on each side.  This is the other half of the space that the rest of the bars get from the comb next to them.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
hollybees
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 177


Location: Holly, Michigan


« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 04:35:27 PM »


Gotcha!  Wink
I'm going to do it....my back's not getting any younger either.
Only have the two hives (for now) but I'm hoping to split them this spring and add two new ones.

Now would be the best time to make the change.
It sound's like it's better for the bees and their keeper's

Thanks,
Paul
Logged
Natalie
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1478

Location: Weymouth, Massachusetts


« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2009, 07:52:58 PM »

Cindi, you are right, now would be the time to do it since you have them empty. I chose to do all 8 frame mediums as well, had 3 back surgeries and don't ever want anymore.

Congratulations on your anniversary!!! Its great to have that someone special in our lives.
Logged
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6296

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2009, 08:32:43 PM »

>>>>(3 1/16" on each end in addition to what is built into the end bars).<<<<

Please explain. Do you mean 3/16, or do you mean 3 and 1/16 in.?

I can't picture what you are saying.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
slaphead
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 239


Location: Seattle Washington area

Obsessive, compulsive & happy


« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2009, 10:01:39 PM »

Cindi,

In my area Freecycle has proven to be a fruitful source of 3/4" thick boards to construct medium and shallow boxes.  These are typically old 8" cedar fence boards with the bottom 2 feet rotted out but the remaining 4 feet intact and sound.  I believe you live in a similar area and within a couple of hundred miles of me and suspect you will find the same.  If your husband likes to work with wood and has a table saw you may find he can build as many boxes as you want for the price of deck screws, glue and paint.  Actually I'm sure you could do this yourself and have some fun with it.  If you have a router and table you can also build all the other pieces of a hive as well without it looking at all tatty. 

Brian has already mentioned typical 8 frame boxes are 13 and 3/4" wide (assumes use of 3/4" thick timber). This is 1/4" wider than you will get if you calculate the width based on the plans for a 10 frame hive on BeeSource (been there, made that "mistake").  If you intend to go the natural comb route and use 1 and 1/4" wide frames (as recommended by Mike Bush) rather than the normal 1 and 3/8" wide frames you can fit 9 frames in each 13 and 3/4" box with room to spare.  With my home built 13 and 1/2" wide boxes 9 frames is a bit too tight a fit for my liking though it may be OK in a coupler of years once our bees have regressed.

Love your attitude with regard to your loss and making the most of it.  Please let us know how you get on.

SH
Logged

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - FDR, 1933
poka-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1651


Location: buckley wa

I am NEVER bored!!


WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2009, 11:05:36 PM »

Oh Cindi, congratulations on 28 years!  My Goodness!  I'm sorry about your bees, it has been an awful winter for you up there, so cold & so much snow! Did you lose em all or just one is going great?  Maybe the others are just slow? I know all too well how we are not stronger as we get past 50! You won't be sorry for one minute of having the 8frm meds!  Ken will do this for you to make you happy & not have someone else to help or handling them in so many more steps. My green girls are much more visible than the blues but the blues are going well inside. Pollen patties & syrup feeding now cause I want to split both to make 4 so I can put some at the CSA. 
Logged

I'm covered in Beeesssss!  Eddie Izzard
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2009, 03:11:55 PM »

Jody, nope.  Pretty sure I lost 8 of them, the 9th one is going well, with 6 frames of bees.  It is my nuc that I made from my old Carniolan colony.  It has always been a strong strain of bee.  This winter survivor is one of the nucs I made last summer, because they were in swarm preparation mode.  Survivor stock, without a doubt. 

Now there may be a chance that some of the other colonies made it, but they would all have to be living in the bottom deep.  Which is extremely unlikely, because when I looked in I could see NO bees.  I will be performing an indepth examination soon to determine what happened.

If I were to cut down the boxes, they would still be deeps, but only 8 frames.  I have no desire to use mediums, all my frames are deep frames. I do have about 4 shallow honey supers though.

Slaphead, thanks for those tips, maybe one day my Husband might/would find some time to do some work on building boxes.  One can never know what the future holds.  You typed a lengthy post to me, thank you.

I suspect that I am going to be totally downsizing the number of colonies I want to keep though.  I am thinking that I would like to only have about 4 at the maximum.  Nine colonies was alot for me to feel totally comfortable working with -- I don't want to work as hard as I have in my old life in my new life coming.  I want less work, more time for playing, like riding my nightster with my Husband on is fatboy!!!  Holy smoking smoke, I can't wait for spring.  Every time I see that commercial of that girl riding her bike down the city streets, proclaiming how wonderful it is to ride and be smoke free, I thank my lucky stars that I quit that hideous habit, and I can ride my bike down those city streets, proclaiming to the world, "you can do it too"!!!  Have that most wonderful and beautifully awesome day, life, great health.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.342 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page December 20, 2014, 04:02:12 AM
anything