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Author Topic: shims  (Read 3697 times)
Natalie
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« on: February 11, 2009, 10:52:51 AM »

I bought shims from both betterbee and brushy mountain and they are totally different in size but I don't know why.
Better bees is I think an inch thick and brushy's imarie shim is half that size.
What would the benefit be to either one?
Brushy has a square shape entrance/exit and betterbee has a round hole that comes with a plastic plug for it.
Does anyone have experience with either one and what would be the differences in using them?
I was concerned about the bees using a ton of propolis on the wider one from betterbee but someone else I know who uses them said he has never had a problem with that happening.

Betterbee's http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=1190

Brushy mountain's http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/prodinfo.asp?number=254IS
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 11:21:37 AM »

I'm not sure why the difference in size but as far as the bees are concerned it shouldn't matter either way.  By that I mean that they both violate bee space by a significant margin and so will be filled with burr comb if you leave it on too long.
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Natalie
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 12:05:02 PM »

Thanks, I had bought one from Brushy and then I figured I would try the one from betterbee but when it arrived I was surprised at the difference in size.
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 03:54:06 PM »

I've noticed the same thing as well, although with different items.  Each manufacturer seems to use slightly different dimensions.  Usually not enough to matter but it can make it tricky sometimes when you mix and match equipment.
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BeeHopper
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 03:54:41 PM »

I've been using Betterbee shims for 3 years now for baggie feeding and Apigard treatments, I have yet to see them build comb or burr comb between the top of frames and the bottom of my cover, probably because I have a top entrance, I don't know. I have made a 3/4 inch shim and the girls were quick to fill that space, so for that reason I stick to the thicker or taller shims.  grin
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RogerB
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 11:01:23 PM »

Natalie,

It looks like the Betterbee shim is for medicating.  George Imrie's shims were to be placed between honey supers with drawn comb, not foundation, and only during a honey flow.

Roger
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Natalie
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 08:20:35 AM »

Thanks Roger,
               I had wondered about that too, they show the shims in two different places on the website, one where to food and meds are and the other with the regular components.
So are you using the imarie shim during a honey flow between the supers for an extra entrance?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 11:26:45 PM »

I've noticed the same thing as well, although with different items.  Each manufacturer seems to use slightly different dimensions.  Usually not enough to matter but it can make it tricky sometimes when you mix and match equipment.

The thinner Imrie shims are used as spacers between frames during a flow as Natalie notes, it is also often used as a vent shim when one end is groved a tad.  The thicker shim is designed to be used for feeding fondant, bag feeders, pollen patties, applying Apistan, Chek-mite+, etc, or to provide an upper entrance/vent when the plastic plug is removed.

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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »

Natalie,

Yes I use Imrie Shims between every other super.  George Imrie was a marvelous cranky beekeeper.  His Pink Pages contain a wealth of information in his crusty style.  I think they are archived on this website.

Roger
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 12:50:24 PM »

I use shims for feeding cappings, baggie feeding with sugar syrup, and extra pollen patties.  Normally I place the pollen patty directly on the cluster, but sometimes I put extra pollen patty on top of the inner cover.  I have placed the baggies on top of the frames with the shim there, I have placed baggies on top of the inner cover with a shim on, with a hole in the middle of the inner cover for the bees to come up and feed.  The bees can do some very marvelous things with cappings when they have removed all the honey from the cappings.  The beauty of the hive parts, so many different applications can be used for each part.  Have a wonderful and awesome day, Cindi

This picture shows the reconstruction of wax cappings when I left the cappings in the colony too long on top of the inner cover.











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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2009, 10:46:53 AM »

I have placed the baggies on top of the frames with the shim there, I have placed baggies on top of the inner cover with a shim on, with a hole in the middle of the inner cover for the bees to come up and feed. 


Which way do you think worked better? Top of frames or top of inner cover?
Shims look like they would be useful in starting a new package with baggies, instead of using a super above a feeding pail or jar?
I would assume that with less air space there would be less for the bees to heat during the cool spring nights. (Although you know what they say about assuming. lol)
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"Power, especially overgrown power, whets the ambition and sets all the wits to work to enlarge it. Therefore, encroachments on peoples liberties are not generally made all at once, but so gradually as hardly to be perceived by the less watchful; and all plastered over, it may be, with such plausible pretenses, that before they are aware of the snare, they are taken and can not disentangle themselves."

Samuel Webster
Massachusetts 1777
Natalie
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2009, 12:27:20 PM »

Thats a good question, can you just feed them the sugar on top of the inner cover and not do the sugar water?
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BeeHopper
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2009, 03:30:11 PM »

I have placed the baggies on top of the frames with the shim there, I have placed baggies on top of the inner cover with a shim on, with a hole in the middle of the inner cover for the bees to come up and feed. 


Which way do you think worked better? Top of frames or top of inner cover?
Shims look like they would be useful in starting a new package with baggies, instead of using a super above a feeding pail or jar?
I would assume that with less air space there would be less for the bees to heat during the cool spring nights. (Although you know what they say about assuming. lol)

Baggie Feeders placed right on the top of frames are warmed by the heat generated by the cluster just below ( which is best in my experience), keep in mind that Bees die from starvation, not by cold temps unless they get wet.
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Cindi
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2009, 05:05:12 PM »

I think both methods of placing a baggie on a colony have their good points.  It depends totally on what YOU want to do.  With the baggie placed directly on the top bars, yes the sugar syrup would remain more warm.  But....I always have warmish syrup that I give to the bees (inside house temperature).  I don't feed cold syrup, ever.  I am pretty sure that the warmth from the colony would keep the syrup in the baggie pretty warm when it is on top of the inner cover.  The speed in which the  bees consume a baggie of syrup, I prefer to put it/them on top of the inner cover.  That inner cover can hold a lot of syrup in baggies.  That way I don't disturb the bees by lifting up their house roof and I can feed them a baggie any time I want, rain, snow, whatever the weather conditions.

Natalie, dry sugar is more work for the bees, they need extra water for the dry sugar, sugar syrup they just suck up.  Beautiful day in this great life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Natalie
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2009, 06:03:01 PM »

So when you get a new package and have to feed, you can just use baggies rather than a feeder, how many baggies per day do you think an average colony would start out with?
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Bobb
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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 11:54:20 PM »

So when you get a new package and have to feed, you can just use baggies rather than a feeder, how many baggies per day do you think an average colony would start out with?
I'm new at this so don't know for sure, but I was going to start with 2 - 1 gallon baggies. Just to make sure. I want to cover a week or so. Maybe one of the more experienced beeks can give a definite answer.
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"Power, especially overgrown power, whets the ambition and sets all the wits to work to enlarge it. Therefore, encroachments on peoples liberties are not generally made all at once, but so gradually as hardly to be perceived by the less watchful; and all plastered over, it may be, with such plausible pretenses, that before they are aware of the snare, they are taken and can not disentangle themselves."

Samuel Webster
Massachusetts 1777
Cindi
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« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2009, 08:10:11 PM »

The answer to this would vary completely upon how large the package of bees was.  I would think that baggie feeders of the one gallon size would do very nicely and would at least last a couple of days.  Not sure how much sugar syrup a package of bees hived without drawn foundation would use.  It seems to me that when I hived my first colonies in 2005 (package bees), they would consume the contents of the inner frame feeder (about 1 gallon) in about 4 days.  If hived with drawn foundation they would use less I would think.  There are variables.  Others will chime in.  Have a most awesomely great life, day, health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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