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Author Topic: Cuttout Contract  (Read 2490 times)
gaucho10
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« on: February 10, 2009, 06:45:02 PM »

Anybody have an example of a contract you use prior to doing a cutout?  Do you give estimates after looking the job over?  What if after starting the job you find out that 4-5-6 other wall studs are affected with bees and the job is going to be more expensive?  If you do use a contract, can you post it for us?  Please.
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JP
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 07:58:26 PM »

I generally do not use one, I have drawn them up from time to time detailing the scope of the job and what the owner's part would be once my job is complete on complex jobs but generally speaking, I don't use them.

There are usually hidden variables on bee removals so its good to give a high price and tell them or less, for when the job is easier than you thought.

If you give a price of 3-400.00, they will usually be fixated on the lower price.

If I want 400 for the job at its worst case scenario, I tell them to expect to pay 400 but if the job is less difficult, I will reduce the cost.

Knowing what to charge comes with experience but even still, there may be an occasional job that will surprise you.

Ask questions, ask questions, ask questions, then investigate the construction, really look the bldg over. If you are uncertain of what to do consult with a contractor, take pictures.

Don't rush your decision, really think it through. Some you will make out fine, some you'll wish you charged double, it will even out with experience.

Be honest and fair with yourself and the customer. If the job is much more involved because of a certain aspect of the construction, explain this to the customer, look them in the eye and ask for more because of this curve ball. Convince them why you need more for the job.

I rarely have to increase my price but when I do its because of some construction flaw that allowed the bees to enter a space that if the area was done correctly, they shouldn't have been there.

Most people are understanding and will appreciate a direct and honest approach, sell them on yourself first and everything else falls right into place.


...JP

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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 08:10:25 PM »

i don't use one.  i also do not charge for cutouts.  for me, it's not a business.  it's fun and a way to increase my own stock.  if the job is going to be a big construction thing, i pass.  they can pay someone for those.  i also do not do the reconstruction.  i tell them up front that i'll do the cutting out and keep the mess to a minimum, but the putting back together is their responsibility.

i agree with JP.  take your time and decide if the job is really something you want to get into.  get another opinion or help if you are unsure.  a second pair of hands is helpful anyway if you don't mind splitting the fee.
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 09:14:02 PM »

I do about three or four cut-outs per week from the first of April to mid September.  I don't use contracts and explain that I am not a licensed contractor so the repairs are on them.  I will do as little damage as possible to expose the bees and attack the building in the most cost effective way for making repairs.  I also have a flyer that I hand them that has pictures and details the process.

In this area the average quote is $100 per hour with a three hour minimum.  In the early spring I rarely take three hours, but for a massive summer removal I will go over that quite often.  I do put the comb in frames on their clock and I don't leave any bees for them to deal with except in extreme circumstances.  In those cases I will have to return to clean up the remaining bees.

I also charge for aerial work and for scaffolding, set up and tear down is also on their clock.

I make it quite clear what my charges are and what to expect when I am done.  It is very important to fully explain exactly the process and charges as well as what they are going to be left with when you are done.  You will find that most people do not like to sign a contract and will be leery of doing business with you if you insist.
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gaucho10
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 08:01:05 PM »

I am not presently a licensed contractor but I have been doing carpentry work for some years.  I deal with bees and bat removal and will shortly get a "Problem Animal Control Licence.  The licence is just an extra in case I get a call for skunks, coons, mice, etc.  I have strictly dealt with bees and bats for over 30 years.  But....I was doing it as a freebee, just for, fun as a hobby.  Now that I am retired I am thinking of doing it as an income.  My thing is not so much to capture bees but more as a means to get carpentry jobs.  I will deffinitely keep the bees (not the bats-against the law).  The only thing is that here in the North East  most of the homes are somewhat new and are well built and well insulated.  There are still quite a few older homes that experience a problem with bees but not as often as it was 20 years ago.  The bat problem is still around so I'm fine with that but the bees is just a "once in a while" call.  I am familiar with what is involved in checking a bee problem in someones home but I just thought someone had a "interesting" and detailed proposal sheet for this type of job.
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 08:22:43 PM »

Just assumed you were "getting into" doing removals. Sorry, didn't mean to rant, hope you found some humor in our replies. Wink

I may pm you sometime about bats, about to get on the list to fool with them. I have a friend who helps me with repairs who is a contractor.

Have another friend that removes bees and used to remove or exclude rather, bats, who is a finished carpenter.

It does seem that the same type bldgs attract bees as well as bats due to poor maintenance issues mainly.

I'll see if I can't find a contract I've used in the past.


...JP
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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 08:33:56 PM »

gaucho 10, this one was in a house still under construction, so it isn't always old homes.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/removals/16.jpg

The contractor paid the bill.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 08:35:29 PM »

how many bees end up in your shirt??
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
gaucho10
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 08:38:42 PM »

Yea JP,  From what I have seen in this forum all the people who are doing cutouts are very interesting.  Most of the jobs are being done to buildings which have NO insulation.  Also, most if not all of these are being done down south.    Nevertheless, I am enjoying everyone's replies and experiences.  This is deffinitely a very interesting job, hobby, etc.  
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
gaucho10
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 08:43:02 PM »

Wow, iddee,  a new home?  How long has it been under construction and how much work was/is involved in that extraction?
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
JP
The Swarm King
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Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 08:54:28 PM »

Yea JP,  From what I have seen in this forum all the people who are doing cutouts are very interesting.  Most of the jobs are being done to buildings which have NO insulation.  Also, most if not all of these are being done down south.    Nevertheless, I am enjoying everyone's replies and experiences.  This is deffinitely a very interesting job, hobby, etc.  

Actually gaucho, I'm starting to see some show up on newer homes that are spraying foam on the sheathing in attic spaces, its the thing to do down here, if you can afford it.

The bees find pockets between the foam and the sheating, these removals are nightmares, as the foam has to be chipped and cut away to reveal the hive, real pain in the a$$ stuff!

I believe Brendhan (Understudy) has removed two like this in Florida as well.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
iddee
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 09:55:25 PM »

The house was being built at a normal pace. I don't know how long, but they were painting inside and finishing the brick veneer when I was called. I only had to remove the section of porch ceiling and insulation where I was working.

Kathyp, I don't count the bees. They crawl all over me when I am doing a removal. Only sting if I mash one. Many times I will remove my shirt, as I mash fewer that way.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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gaucho10
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 10:35:22 PM »

iddee, On that pic you showed, were they building above or below the insulation?

JP,  I think I read the post you are refering to from Understudy .  I just thought it was kind of odd that the bees would find their way through that stuff.  I guess those air pockets through the foam are long.
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
BULLSEYE BILL
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 10:41:42 PM »

Iddee, thanks for wearing a shirt!   applause

I don't consider myself 'down south', but we do have a lot of houses without insulation in the walls.  Insulating houses didn't become common place until the early 60's here.

I remove more bees from modern houses than old houses and find that the bees will carry out the insulation when they have too.  The most common area of the house to find bees in here is in the eaves where there is no insulation.  That being said, the worst place to find them is in a cinder-block wall.
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iddee
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 11:08:37 PM »

I guess you would say they were above and past the insulation.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/removals/15.jpg

BB, I get more stings with a shirt on than without. Don't mash as many between shirt and body.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
JP
The Swarm King
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 11:29:12 PM »

iddee, On that pic you showed, were they building above or below the insulation?

JP,  I think I read the post you are referring to from Understudy .  I just thought it was kind of odd that the bees would find their way through that stuff.  I guess those air pockets through the foam are long.

I don't know if its poor technique on the applicator's part or if its inevitable that there will be airspaces here and there between the sheating and the spray foam insulation but the bees find the gaps. Once a hive is established they will chew out the foam to expand the hive.


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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
okiequeenbee
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 11:47:40 PM »

iddee - do you usually get the queen from those cut-outs?  I did 4 like that this summer.  Insulation had fallen down and they were quite a ways back up in there.  I don't have a contract, just give them a price and tell them that I don't repair.
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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2009, 08:49:09 AM »

I have No contract, make no repairs.

The success of getting the queen went up drastically when I learned to cut the comb around the outside first, leaving the center two pieces of broodcomb about a foot long. If I don't get her first, she will go to that comb within about 30 minutes.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2010, 09:27:46 PM »

I know this is an old thread but it seemed better than starting something similar all over again.  I'm curious about the risk of getting sued in a disagreement and not having a contract demonstrating that the homeowner knew beforehand who was responsible for what?  People tend to be a bit sue happy nowadays it seems.

Also I'm curious what kind/if any of liability insurance you carry to cover cutouts?

I've done two so far for free just for the learning experience.  It's funny actually I get called for cutouts more than swarms even though I haven't been doing it that long.

Thanks for any advice you may have.
Adam
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