Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
December 18, 2014, 06:13:35 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Does Cell Size Matter in Honey Supers?  (Read 1108 times)
Pond Creek Farm
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 566


Location: Republic, MO


« on: February 07, 2009, 10:00:40 PM »

I understand the thinking behind small cell in the brood boxes, but does it matter in honey supers that will be removed at the end of the season?  I was toying with the idea of allowing the bees to draw all of the honey supers on starter strips (I crush and strain, and the added wax is a bonus to us), but if using foundation or plastic frames is faster for the bees, perhaps this is a better method to increase honey production.  Is foundation faster than natural cell?
Logged

Brian
justgojumpit
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 216


Location: North Salem, NY


« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2009, 10:04:57 PM »

natural comb is drawn out faster than foundation, and since the bees are not raising brood in the honey supers, the size of these cells will have no effect on varroa levels in the hive.

justgojumpit
Logged

Keeper of bees and builder of custom beekeeping equipment.
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2009, 10:50:29 PM »

In a side by side test in 3 hives I've observed that bees will draw out 2+ frames of foundationless frames to every frame with foundation. Seems counterintuitive but with foundationless the bees festoon all the way across the frame and work in unison, with foundatiion the bees work blind to the bees on the other side and in patches here, there, and elsewhere.

Once a colony has the brood chamber established (2 deeps or 4 mediums) the difference in harvested honey between hives using foundationless supers and super with foundation ranges from negligable to more with foundationless.  Even though it might take more honey to make the necessary wax in a foundationless hive the wax is made and filled just as fast or faster with foundationless the bees seem to be working more efficiently.  Efficiency always out produces barriers and foundation is a barrier.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11688


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2009, 11:06:20 PM »

I use wax coated plasticell in my medium honey supers. Works great for me. In a good flow, I don't think it really matters. I haven't done specific tests like Brian has however, but I like my system. I use starter strips in the brood nest.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13967


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 10:32:28 PM »

If you don't use an excluder, and I don't, and they are all the same size boxes, then which are the supers?
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
NWIN Beekeeper
Professional Beekeeper
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 338


Location: Crown Point, Indiana (30mi SE of Chicago)


« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 05:24:14 AM »

PARTS of this POST EDITED BY BEEMASTER - Jeff I'll write you and let you know why if you don't see the need for editing.

NWIN says:

[...with foundationless the bees festoon all the way across the frame and work in unison...]

This is my observation too. Its as though the team work is cut in half by any prestructured foundation.
But you may desire plastic foundation in the honey area for strength, structure, and ease of processing.
Natural combs can be difficult to have drawn straight, and nearly never are they drawn with uniform cell sizes, and can blow out will extracting. The benefits of natural cell is mostly appreciated in the brood area.  That's a deeper subject that should be (already is) covered in another thread. Uniform cell patterns also aid in structural intregrity.

You can create barriers using capped frames of honey that inhibit (but not necessarily prevent) the queen from laying in upper boxes. He also adopts the doctorine that all frames are fair game for use throughout the hive. Well, some people prefer to reserve certain combs for honey only production as they feel it produces cleaner or lesser darkened honey. I also like dedicated frames because it allows for removal of honey by variety (as flowers bloom). Frames scattered throughout the hive most honestly has to label its honey has generically wild flower. Its all a matter of preference and intent. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 05:48:17 AM by beemaster » Logged

There is nothing new under the sun. Only your perspective changes to see it anew.
Understudy
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4640


Location: West Palm Beach, Fl


WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 10:42:39 AM »

Okay here are my observations from dealing with feral hives.

Bees will put honey in almost any size cell.  I have seen it in huge cells that were used for drones. I have seen them back fill brood sections when they are ready to swarm. The difference is this. The smaller the cell the quicker they are to cap it. The drone cells are almost never capped because there is to much water content. I use permacomb in many of my hives. They use it for brood and honey. Since the cells start out at around 5.0mm and get layered down from there. They can end up quite small. The bees will if they need to put honey in them.

The question is how soon do want capped honey? Bigger cells take longer. Smaller cells take less time but there are more cells to deal with. I prefer the smaller cells.

Sincerely,
Brendhan


Logged

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible
poka-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1651


Location: buckley wa

I am NEVER bored!!


WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 02:06:45 PM »

I am doing crush & strain so the foundationless is for me.  I noticed last year that they had their brood nest area, then during the blackberry flow & later in the season they made bigger cells to put the honey in, some bigger than drone!  I'm "goin in" today to see just whats what from winter as it's supposed to be in the low 50's, may be the only chance I get for the next 3 months, our weather is so variable.   J
Logged

I'm covered in Beeesssss!  Eddie Izzard
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 08:17:43 PM »

I am doing crush & strain so the foundationless is for me.  I noticed last year that they had their brood nest area, then during the blackberry flow & later in the season they made bigger cells to put the honey in, some bigger than drone!  I'm "goin in" today to see just whats what from winter as it's supposed to be in the low 50's, may be the only chance I get for the next 3 months, our weather is so variable.   J

There are essentially 3 standard comb sizes within a bee hive.  Brood comb, Drone comb, and Storage comb.  Burr comb will have varied sizes of cells including some smaller than brood cells.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.213 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page December 09, 2014, 05:46:12 PM