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Author Topic: Purchasing hives with bees  (Read 1553 times)
homer
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« on: February 02, 2009, 07:41:59 PM »

I found a guy near me that is selling complete double deep hives full of bees that have just returned from california.  I would likely do some splits.  In splitting them would it be best to let them make a new queen, or to requeen the side without a queen?  Also, if ou were purchasing a hive like this, how much would it be worth to you to pay for it?  I think the price is quite reasonable, but I'm interested in everyone's opinions on here.
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bassman1977
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 07:54:27 PM »

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I would likely do some splits.

How many is some?

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In splitting them would it be best to let them make a new queen, or to requeen the side without a queen?

Depends on how many you want to make and how fast you want to sell them.  If you don't mind the wait, you can do a walk away split but if you have a lot of hives and want to dump them fast, you might want to consider another method.

Quote
Also, if ou were purchasing a hive like this, how much would it be worth to you to pay for it?

I bought from a guy a few years back that sold me some hives at 5 bucks a frame (deeps).  That was just for the bees & comb.  I gave him replacement frames and used my own deep box.  He wasn't a commercial beek.  The hives he got were from cutouts he had done for free but was just turning it around to make some money from the sale of the hives.
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homer
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 05:17:11 PM »

Well, I thought that I could get 2 hives and split them each once and have 4 strong hives.  I figure that it would likely be best to just order new queens and requeen each of the queenless splits.
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bassman1977
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 09:52:05 PM »

In that case, I would just do a walk away split or just order queens for the split. 
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BjornBee
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 07:52:35 AM »

Also, if ou were purchasing a hive like this, how much would it be worth to you to pay for it?  I think the price is quite reasonable, but I'm interested in everyone's opinions on here.

The price is directly related to the history of the comb (How old, etc.), whether strip mite control  or the equivalent "pour in method" of the same bottles chemicals was used (affects queen viability, longevity, etc.), and other factors to include where these bees came from originally. Are these queens from the islands or Australia that have queens with no history of survivor genetics and selection? Is this a beekeeper who claims no "recent" AFB problems, but for the fact he treats regularly to suppress it, and will you do the same? (If not, you may find yourself with problems.


On the surface, a price is just a price. Some prices sound good, and some do not. A price may peak my interest or suggest it's a fair price, but the value of what you are buying goes beyond the price.

And yes, most will say what you want to hear. Myself, commercial migratory beekeepers are the last people I would be buying hives and comb from.

So how much do you know about this beekeeper and operation? Have you known him long? It's rather easy to forget such good advice as "Know who you buy bees from, the operation, and what you are getting", once someone throws out a good price in front of you.

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homer
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 12:30:30 PM »

Also, if ou were purchasing a hive like this, how much would it be worth to you to pay for it?  I think the price is quite reasonable, but I'm interested in everyone's opinions on here.

The price is directly related to the history of the comb (How old, etc.), whether strip mite control  or the equivalent "pour in method" of the same bottles chemicals was used (affects queen viability, longevity, etc.), and other factors to include where these bees came from originally. Are these queens from the islands or Australia that have queens with no history of survivor genetics and selection? Is this a beekeeper who claims no "recent" AFB problems, but for the fact he treats regularly to suppress it, and will you do the same? (If not, you may find yourself with problems.


On the surface, a price is just a price. Some prices sound good, and some do not. a price may peak my interest or suggest it's a fair price, but the value of what you are buying goes beyond the price.

And yes, most will say what you want to hear. Myself, commercial migratory beekeepers are the last people I would be buying hives and comb from.

So how much do you know about this beekeeper and operation? Have you known him long? It's rather easy to forget such good advice as "Know who you buy bees from, the operation, and what you are getting", once someone throws out a good price in front of you.



Nope, I don't know him at all.  His bees are in California right now and he uses "Big Island Queens" as a queen breeder, I think.  Thanks for all the suggestions, I can see that I need to find out much more from him before I get too serous about this.

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jsmob
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 03:31:07 PM »

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Well, I thought that I could get 2 hives and split them each once and have 4 strong hives.  I figure that it would likely be best to just order new queens and re queen each of the queenless splits.


 If you decide to get the hives and are interrested in splitting them. I would wait tell 2 deep suppers are full of bees. Then I would split hive into 4 nucs and place queens in all. Or if you believe the old queen is still good, just queen the 3 new nucs, and leave the 4th with the old queen in it.

 This way for one hive you can get 4 nucs to build up this spring and maybe get some honey. If you get 2 hives from this guy then you could hive 8 hives.
 
 Or if you get the bees early enough you can raise your own queens. This is the method I am going to use this year.
 http://www.mdasplitter.com/index.htm
Found it on another thread.
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homer
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 05:19:37 PM »

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Well, I thought that I could get 2 hives and split them each once and have 4 strong hives.  I figure that it would likely be best to just order new queens and re queen each of the queenless splits.


 If you decide to get the hives and are interrested in splitting them. I would wait tell 2 deep suppers are full of bees. Then I would split hive into 4 nucs and place queens in all. Or if you believe the old queen is still good, just queen the 3 new nucs, and leave the 4th with the old queen in it.

 This way for one hive you can get 4 nucs to build up this spring and maybe get some honey. If you get 2 hives from this guy then you could hive 8 hives.
 
 Or if you get the bees early enough you can raise your own queens. This is the method I am going to use this year.
 http://www.mdasplitter.com/index.htm
Found it on another thread.


According to him the bees are already completely filling up 2 deep supers.  So maybe I'd already be good to go to split, as soon as I could get queens.
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jsmob
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2009, 08:42:10 PM »

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According to him the bees are already completely filling up 2 deep supers.  So maybe I'd already be good to go to split, as soon as I could get queens.

Utah is still in a deep freeze though, isn't it? I am not sure how warm it needs to be, or even if that is an issue.
It's a good question though.

"If you have queens, can you re-queen a hive in a snow bank?" rolleyes
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homer
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2009, 09:32:15 PM »


Utah is still in a deep freeze though, isn't it? I am not sure how warm it needs to be, or even if that is an issue.
It's a good question though.

"If you have queens, can you re-queen a hive in a snow bank?" rolleyes

Oh yes, it's still quite cold.  And I'm in extreme northern Utah where we've got a good 2-3 weeks more of cold weather than down in Salt Lake Area.  I don't really expect much of a warm-up till end of march, first of april.  Good question on requeening though.  I'd likely have to wilt till the middle of April to get a queen anyway.  That is when I got my package last year.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 10:43:41 PM »

If he's using Kona queens they will most likely not do well in Utah.  Hawaii is tropical, Utah is not.  The climate disparity mostly likely means lost hives during the winter.  A quick climate change from moderate to freezing temps can kill tropical raised bees. 
I look elsewhere.  This sounds to me like a guy who bought bees for Almond Pollination and now whats to trim his business down to a more managable size.  That means he's selling what he doesn't want which translates into his worst hives.
My guess is that the if not Hawaiian, then the bees are probably Australian, which means no mite resistance to boot.
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homer
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 04:37:55 PM »

If he's using Kona queens they will most likely not do well in Utah.  Hawaii is tropical, Utah is not.  The climate disparity mostly likely means lost hives during the winter.  a quick climate change from moderate to freezing temps can kill tropical raised bees. 
I look elsewhere.  This sounds to me like a guy who bought bees for Almond Pollination and now whats to trim his business down to a more managable size.  That means he's selling what he doesn't want which translates into his worst hives.
My guess is that the if not Hawaiian, then the bees are probably Australian, which means no mite resistance to boot.

I really don't think that he is trying to screw me.  He is also offering nucs but already has them in 10 frame deep boxes with a min of 5 frames of brood.  He is selling those for $90.  So I have a choice of double deep hives overflowing with bees for $140 or a good strong 10 frame deep.
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