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Author Topic: spreading foulbrood  (Read 2361 times)
danno
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« on: February 03, 2009, 01:39:31 PM »

Can Foulbrood be spread by placing a extracted super on a healthy hive that came from a sick hive the previous year?
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BjornBee
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 02:08:50 PM »

Yes
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 02:25:02 PM »

I know a beek who kept putting packages on old comb, they would survive, but fail very winter. AFB was the cause. yes, its very contagious. It is very easily spread by robbing.
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danno
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 02:34:33 PM »

I understand how easily it can be spread by old combs and through robbing but what you are saying is to always use the same supers on the same hives year after year.  How many people do this and if they have a FB problem do they burn the hive and all supers that have been used on it in the past
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 02:39:57 PM »

I know they used to burn everything in the past, but I'm pretty sure you can sterilize the supers and hive bodies if they are in good enough condition to be worth saving.
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jdpro5010
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 03:22:35 PM »

BURN'EM
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 03:25:04 PM »

You can use gamma rays(radiation) i believe to sterilize. Some used to use lye bath in the old days I have been told.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 03:50:41 PM »

I understand how easily it can be spread by old combs and through robbing but what you are saying is to always use the same supers on the same hives year after year. 

If you do not have AFB, then keeping your supers assigned to one hive or another is not usually done.

Now, if your going to treat and mask the problem, then this may be suggested. But I tend to think that keeping the supers separate between yards is a better "practical" measure. I usually tell people IF they are going to treat a single hive in a yard once AFB was found, that treating the whole yard may be best.

If you remove the AFB infected frames, and treat with a two cycle treatment (Spring/fall or fall/spring), you have a good chance of never seeing AFB again in a previous infected AFB hive, unless the source is brought in from another source. (robbing, beekeeper manipulations, etc.)

And remember, genetics have a huge impact of AFB control. If you have a hive with AFB, requeening should at least be considered.
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riverrat
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 05:11:08 PM »

Foul Brood can be spread by something as simple as a hive tool or glove. All it takes is for something to have the spores on it.
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 08:22:19 PM »

American Foulbrood is bad.  Plain and simple.  The spores can last for decades.  Period.

I am not what I would even begin to call an experienced beekeeper.  Only been with the bees for three years.

If I found a colony with American Foulbrood evidence within, those boxes and everything within it would be burned down to the ground.  That is slightly exaggerating, but only ever so slightly.  But if I only found one colony or maybe two, that is absolutely what I would do.  I inspect my colonies frequently enough that I would truly hope that I would catch any signs of AFB pretty quickly and the burn would begin.  If all 9 colonies showed evidence of AFB, I would probably burn everything and start right over.  These are my thoughts right now, if this disease really did surface, I cannot say for surely that I would follow through with these plans, I may seek alternative measures, but these are my first thoughts.

I have read enough about AFB and how the spores can spread (even from hands to next colony, hive tool, etc.) so quickly.  I also know that there is an extreme amount of work that the beekeeper COULD do to "sterilize", cleanse, whatever you may call it, to pretty much rid the colony(ies) of this malade, but to me it would not be worth the effort.  I only have 9 colonies.  If I had to downsize a couple to stop disease and prevent any passing of spores to the neighbour colonies, this is what I would do.

Why do you ask Danno?  I am curious about that, do you have any suspicion of colonies that are sick at your place?  Have a wonderful, most awesome day, life, attract great health.  Cindi
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danno
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 07:50:37 AM »

Cindi
No I do not.  The reason I ask is I have several freinds that have upward of 1000 supers and one with twice that. They finish extracting and just stack them 10+ high in warehouses.  I have done enough research to know the facts about FB and as I build my outfit it crossed my mind to number everything.  I know my freind do not and wanted some feedback on doing this
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BjornBee
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 09:06:53 AM »

Cindi,
I would hope you would salvage the woodenware. If you scorch the inside of the boxes, there is almost no chance of getting AFB again by using such equipment. There is one study, that suggested even the spores on the inside of the boxes, will not be enough to have it outbreak. Although I'm not suggesting anyone do that. But I would suggest scorching the boxes, bottoms, tops, etc.

AFB is almost always attributed to frames and comb, as the concentration of spore levels have much to do with AFB outbreak.

There is a real good chance, if as you say, you catch it early, (Like finding a few cells on one or two frames) and removing those frames, you will not even see AFB again.

All hives, by some studies, suggest the spores are in about every hive. (Kind of like the CCD samples now showing chems in all samples tested by the mere fact of foundation being used) But two things must happen....1) A certain spore count normally must be achieved in the cell for infection, 2) and the right conditions must be seen.

I will burn any hives being found with AFB. As a nuc producer, I can not take the risk of infecting or giving others AFB. But I have helped others, and found that burning the entire hive in most cases was not needed, unless full hive infection was apparent. And unless you are burning the whole yard, you no doubt have the spore in the other hives anyways.

You kind of know when the whole thing should be burned. And I find many who find AFB early, like a few cells, much more open to less drastic approaches. Many times, with success.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 09:18:33 AM »

Yes, but unless you are inspecting barehanded, washing your hands between hives, and sterilizing your hive tools between hives, it probably won't be the single cause of the spread of AFB .
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 09:19:43 AM »

Cindi
No I do not.  The reason I ask is I have several freinds that have upward of 1000 supers and one with twice that. They finish extracting and just stack them 10+ high in warehouses.  I have done enough research to know the facts about FB and as I build my outfit it crossed my mind to number everything.  I know my freind do not and wanted some feedback on doing this

Keeping boxes and frames segregated and assigned to a specific hive when running a 1000 supers is to time consuming. and there is still a threat of spreading foulbrood. As posted earlier somethng as simple has a hive tool can spread the spores to other hives. It would be the same way in the honey house extractors decappers etc while minimal chance exists can still contaminate the supers. IMO If you suspect foulbrood at all burn the frames and scorch the boxes is the safest bet to keep from spreading.
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Cindi
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 11:36:59 AM »

Good thoughts, no doubt.  I haven't come across AFB yet, had a small bout of EFB with one colony two years ago, but that was dealt with pretty quickly.

Burning the boxes and frames......sounds like burning to a crispy bunch of crap isn't necessary, meaning, not to burn into a pile of cinders.

I would think that a blow torch would be the way to go?  If there was a fair number of frames/boxes, how about a big fire, tossing the woodenware into the fire for a short time and then removing.  That would seem that it would be a pretty fast way of doing a scorch/burn thing, comments here please, and elaborate, I need to know.  Have a wonderful, great and awesome day, Cindi

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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
jdpro5010
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2009, 03:03:22 PM »

In my opinion, burning the frames and scorching the insides of the boxes is the bare minimum I would consider.  I understand that is or can be an expensive thing to have to do.  I would much rather pay for new frames than risk spreading AFB to my beekeeping neighbors.  I also feel as Bjorn does that genetics can play a major role in minimizing AFB, but once I see it I don't want to risk spreading it.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2009, 09:41:19 PM »

Scorching the boxes has worked for me in the past, with one caution, take the boxes apart before applying heat as I've had a hive break out with AFB in scorched boxes because of the spores in the joints.  Once I disassembled the boxes and reapplied heat everything was fine.   A trick for sanitizing your hive tool in the field between hives is to put you hive tool inside the smoker and give a few strong puffs.  That will usually kill any spores that may have attached themselves to the hive tool.  And yes, I've seen a whole bee yard (40 hives) develop AFB because the beekeeper was using a contaminated hive tool and gloves.  It was 45 years ago but I still remember the lessons.
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2009, 11:12:49 AM »

Brian B., good.  I was recalling somewhere on this forum where I had read to take apart the boxes and scorch those parts too, as the spores can "hide" in every part of the box, I just couldn't remember whom had spoken of it, it was you.  That is some good information to know and understand.  And I like the part about the hive tool scorching too, would surely work.  Great, all these tips to keep in the cobwebs of the mind, to be able to draw upon these when necessary.  Have this wonderful and awesome day to be ours, attract great health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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