Becoming what one hates

[Jerrymac]

That was the thought that crossed my mind as I read a particular article the other day. You probably heard about the family whose children's names are associated with Nazis and how the state has taken them from the family. The "Division of Youth and Family Services" won't even tell the parents why they took the kids other than they were in "imminent danger".

In what way I wonder?

This story made me think the State was using "Nazi" like tactics because they just don't like the names of the kids. And just the name of the Social services group gives me shivers. "Division of Youth and Family"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/hitler_cake

NJ dad who named kids after Nazis decries removal
By DAVID PORTER, Associated Press Writer

NEWARK, N.J. – The father of three children who have names associated with Nazis is accusing the state Division of Youth and Family Services of taking his children under false pretenses and says one of the kids appeared neglected when he saw them last week.

Heath Campbell told The Associated Press on Saturday that he and his wife, Deborah, have been allowed to see their children once since state child welfare workers removed them from the family's home on Jan. 9.

Campbell said his 2-year-old daughter, JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell, appeared sick and had a runny nose and dirty diaper when he and his wife visited the children last week under the supervision of state social workers.

DYFS has not said why JoyceLynn and siblings Adolf Hitler Campbell, 3, and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell, who will be 1 in April, were removed. Kate Bernyk, a DYFS spokeswoman, said Saturday that confidentiality laws prevent the agency from commenting on specific cases.

Campbell said the agency told him the children were taken because they were in "imminent danger," but he believed the removal was spurred by publicity surrounding the children's names.

"In three years, they've never been involved with us," he said, referring to DYFS. "They said it's not about the newspaper articles, but they took them because of their names. I don't care what anybody says."

The family made headlines in December when a ShopRite supermarket in Greenwich, near the family's home in Holland Township, refused to decorate a birthday cake with their son's name.

a Wal-Mart in Pennsylvania wound up decorating the cake, but the resulting publicity put the family under media scrutiny. Heath Campbell said he and his wife are staying with relatives because neighbors and others are harassing them.

Police in Holland Township are investigating a mailed death threat that was received by a woman whose last name is Campbell but is not related the couple.

a hearing in Hunterdon County family court was postponed earlier this month because the Campbells were unable to retain a lawyer. Heath Campbell said Saturday they still have not done so.

[Big John]

I don't agree with the names the parents gave the children, it will just make it hard on the children but,
this is just another form of government censorship.

[BjornBee]

I don't agree with the names the parents gave the children, it will just make it hard on the children but,
this is just another form of government censorship.

So is this good or bad? Just mentioning that it's "government censorship" implies that it's always wrong, by some negative implication.

Lets say the following could happen.....

a parent decides to tattoo one child with 666 across the forehead, with full body neo-nazi slogans, to a three year old.

How about some "body art" people making their kids into a snake by implanting beads in the forehead, and splitting the child's tongue, among other things.

I'm not one for government intervention for many things. But I do not buy that a parent can subject a child to walking down the street with a name of Adolf Hitler, any more than I want that parent to perform or allow a girl to be circumcised, turn their child into a snake, or a full body tattoo for a three year old.

I hear many stories of both over-abuse of the states powers, and cases where something should of been done after years of abuse, and nothing ever happened. On the surface, a name is a name. My gut also tells me, this is wrong. And if nothing else, maybe the next idiot will think twice of thinking it's "Cool" to name their child like this. Blue Moon Zappa...I have no problem. Adolph Hitler, and what this child will endure for the next 18 years...maybe I'm a little glad someone was watching.

[Scadsobees]

A person can change a name with a couple sheets of paper.  Body art is forever deforming.

The name isn't going to make the person.  The parents will (for the most part).  The name is just incidental.

Without all of the information for the state's reasoning, I have a problem with what they did.  But it is awefully one sided right now since they are self-censoring, and this man does have a bad history (not to mention bad current!)..

Rick

[Jerrymac]

What bad history?

There is nothing wrong with naming a child Adolf Hitler. Or Attila the Hunn. Or Gazebo Godiva. (It just popped into my head. ) The people that are wrong are the ones that torture the kids with those names. Just like making fun of over weight kids. Or a child with some deformity or mental problems.

Once people start protecting others for "supposed" dangers (which they already do) then there is no stopping point. They can take any child from any family for any reason.  You have a gas stove. It could spring a leak and kill your child so we are taking the child for his/her protection.

[BjornBee]

a person can change a name with a couple sheets of paper.  Body art is forever deforming.

The name isn't going to make the person.  The parents will (for the most part).  The name is just incidental.

Without all of the information for the state's reasoning, I have a problem with what they did.  But it is awefully one sided right now since they are self-censoring, and this man does have a bad history (not to mention bad current!)..

Rick

So you ARE drawing a line between names and body art. You did not mention tattoo's, or what some think is justified with female circumcision. I would suppose many have differing views of what constitutes as "deforming", mental abuse, etc. I bet some would suggest that the right of a parent is absolute in all decisions including names, tattoos, body art and female circumcision.

I do not agree that a four year old can change his name. And I do believe that the name will "make" the person. All experiences go into "making" a person. As of now, the children have no opinion or options as to their names. Only to suffer the consequences in their daily lives as imposed (rightly or wrongly) by others. Abuse, is as much mental as it is physical.

To suggest that a child going through the first 18 years of his life with being named as Adolf Hitler, is "incidental", in my opinion is not so lightly taken. Do you think the parents choose the names because they liked them? Or did they choose those names due to a little more than "incidental" reasons, including the history, hatred, and meaning behind them? That's a heavy burden for kids to carry around the first 18 years of their lives because the parents or anyone else consider it "incidental".

We of course have no idea of the facts beyond the news story. I'm sure many details are not out.

[Jerrymac]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/12/except_for_numerals_or_symbols.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/the_mother_of_three_hunterdon.html

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon/index.ssf/2009/01/state_says_hunterdon_siblings.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/parents_of_children_with_nazii.html

[Jerrymac]

But one of the things is that they are going to court to defend themselves from the accusations against them. How can they when they don't know what those accusations are. I do believe that is some violation of rights and proper court proceedings.

[kathyp]

i lost track of this story, but last i heard, it sounded like it was not just about the names?

going through the court system as my son tries to keep custody of his children, i have lost all faith in the system.  i have found that laws mean nothing.  courts and judges can do as they please and if they don't follow the law, no one gives a darn. 

[Irwin]

i lost track of this story, but last i heard, it sounded like it was not just about the names?

going through the court system as my son tries to keep custody of his children, i have lost all faith in the system.  i have found that laws mean nothing.  courts and judges can do as they please and if they don't follow the law, no one gives a darn. 

I agree with Kathy I have had my share of problem's with the state. I think Oregon is one of the worst state's for taking kid's and selling them to the hightest bidder. If you fight them you better have allot of money and a spotless record.

[Scadsobees]

If the state EVER takes a child without informing the PARENTS as to why, then that is WRONG WRONG WRONG, and I don't know what I'd do in a case like that but a mama bear comes to mind.

Is this the case here?  I don't know.  I sure hope and pray not.

In this case, I don't need to know why, the media doesn't need to know why.  The parents better have a really good reason from the state.

No, I don't think that just a name is a good enough reason.  But I certainly disagree with the parents and what they've done so far and think them stupid fools for naming their kids what they did.

I have read in some of the articles that the dad has had some domestic abuse history and some associations with very unsavory groups (which it looks like he maintains).  Current domestic abuse?  Good reason.  Bad names? Bad reason.

[Scadsobees]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imminent

Regardless of what one may think about the names of the children, I don't think that anybody would say that the danger from a bad name is "imminent". 

Unless you are framing it within 1000's of years, as in "we are in imminent danger that our earth will melt from carbon dioxide".

<edit for word in wrong spot>

[Jerrymac]

Some people seem to be missing the point.

I do not agree with Devil worship, but I will certainly fight for your right to do so. The same with the names. I may or may not agree with a name, and it really makes no difference why a person is named the name they are named with, but I will defend your namer right to name the namee. Or is that namie?

[Jerrymac]

See here....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090202/sc_livescience/recessiontofuelmorefamilymurdersuicide

If a person is laid off the children are in imminent danger and should be ripped from their homes 

[buzzbeejr]

Some people seem to be missing the point.

I do not agree with Devil worship, but I will certainly fight for your right to do so. The same with the names. I may or may not agree with a name, and it really makes no difference why a person is named the name they are named with, but I will defend your namer right to name the namee. Or is that namie?

there's a tongue twister.

[johnnybigfish]

I dont like devil worship and I wont take a stand to protect a persons rights to do it! I have enuff trubl watching the govt put a stop to anything to do with GOD!

your friend,
john

[Jerrymac]

That's just it John. If you don't protect everybody's rights then the next to go will be yours. 

[JP]

 There is right and then there is wrong. Its not alright to name your kid Adolph Hitler in most countries. And if you do so, you're an idiot that more than likely needs someone to step in on behalf of these innocent children who are now "marked" at least until they are able to legally change their name.

Sometimes "rights" need to be taken away. Last time I checked we are living in a civilized society.


...JP

[johnnybigfish]

Well said, JP!
 Freedom is what we stand for, right?...But I just dont know how much freedom we should have....to much of a good thing isnt good for anybody! Give us too much rope, and we''l end up hanging ourselves with it! In this country, everybody wants freedom...freedom to vote...freedom to speak...freedom to petition....Freedom of Choice...Freedom to have a gay marriage...Freedom to be able to kill people....Man, I just dont know....We have the freedom to name our kids anything we want...But, freedom doesnt always make it right.
your friend,
john

[Jerrymac]

Once again. There is nothing wrong with the name Adolf Hitler. The name is/was not evil.

How about Jessie James? Bad guy right? But there are people with that name. Even a celebrity.

So was Adolf Hitler a Christian? http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html