! of 3 hives dead-2 others look like it's 2 months early?

[challenger]

I had a hive die due to starvation caused by poor beekeeping/hive management. They went into winter-w-too little stores and too much ventilation IMO. I put a pail feeder in an insulated deep box and the small clump of bees were all over it as it was a warm day. I used invert sugar syrup mixed-w-a small amount of lemon grass oil and spearmint oil and the ratio was a little thicker than 1:1. They also had some honey frames from the 2 other hives. Anyway I suppose there were just not enough bees to keep the temp up because I checked them after a cold snap and they were all dead-w-their bodies stuck in the cells.
My 2 other hives have me concerned because they have a lot of eggs, sealed & unsealed brood and tons of bees as if it was early Spring. One of the hives even had the queen laying in both deep boxes. I rotated the boxes and made sure they have a lot of stores and will feed them if all these new bees gobble up what id in the hive now.
My question is I would like to experiment-w-splitting a hive in a few more weeks and hopefully having them raise their own queen and I am wondering what the earliest is that I can attempt this. I was thinking of simply dividing the strongest hive and placing the split right on the the other to help them both stay warm. I also thought about taking a frame of brood from the remaining, untouched hive to help get the population up for the honey flow.
Any advice?
Thanks
Howard
Hampsttead, NC

[Brian D. Bray]

My 2 other hives have me concerned because they have a lot of eggs, sealed & unsealed brood and tons of bees as if it was early Spring. One of the hives even had the queen laying in both deep boxes. I rotated the boxes and made sure they have a lot of stores and will feed them if all these new bees gobble up what id in the hive now.

They are, for whatever reason, already into Spring mode so feeding them at this time of year is going to be essential.  You'' also need to feed pollen or a substitue to keep the brood laying going if that is what you want them to do.  Once the bees shift into spring buildup they can go through 30 lbs of honey in about 10 days if using 2 brood blxes.  So the feeding is a must as they can't attain that amount from open forage this time of year, even in the Carolinas.

My question is I would like to experiment-w-splitting a hive in a few more weeks and hopefully having them raise their own queen and I am wondering what the earliest is that I can attempt this. I was thinking of simply dividing the strongest hive and placing the split right on the the other to help them both stay warm. I also thought about taking a frame of brood from the remaining, untouched hive to help get the population up for the honey flow.
Any advice?
Thanks
Howard
Hampsttead, NC

Doing a walk away split is doable under thecircumstances you described of brood chamber at more than one deep.  The timing of the split is going to be more dependant on drone population than anything else.  I wouldn't do the split until I had a noticable live population of drones.  Once the drones are out and about then doing a split and letting each develop it's own queen makes the chances of multiple matings more likely as does having drones of a more mature age than the newly hatched queen.

If you want to reduce the likely hood of swarms later then move the current queen to the split and let the "established" hive develop the queen.  This preforms an controlled swarm as it mimics nature in that the old queen leaves the hive.

[challenger]

"They are, for whatever reason, already into Spring mode so feeding them at this time of year is going to be essential.  You'' also need to feed pollen or a substitue to keep the brood laying going if that is what you want them to do.  Once the bees shift into spring buildup they can go through 30 lbs of honey in about 10 days if using 2 brood blxes.  So the feeding is a must as they can't attain that amount from open forage this time of year, even in the Carolinas."

I have pollen patties on them now-I don't like to use then and will try and collect some real pollen this year for this type of feeding. I will give the hives a "tip test" and see what the weight is like. If they have lightened it up I am ready to feed them. I cooked up a lot of syrup this weekend-I remember the $ I spent on sugar last year and I hope it doesn't cost as much this year. We are getting dandelions now but not enough for keeping the bees fed. I do have a fair amount of honey from the other hive that died that I originally stole from these 2 strong hives so I know it is good honey but feeding 1:1 sugar is what prompts them to rear brood as it is closer to nectar right? I was told feeding capped honey is winter feed?


"Doing a walk away split is doable under thecircumstances you described of brood chamber at more than one deep.  The timing of the split is going to be more dependant on drone population than anything else.  I wouldn't do the split until I had a noticable live population of drones.  Once the drones are out and about then doing a split and letting each develop it's own queen makes the chances of multiple matings more likely as does having drones of a more mature age than the newly hatched queen."

"If you want to reduce the likely hood of swarms later then move the current queen to the split and let the "established" hive develop the queen.  This preforms an controlled swarm as it mimics nature in that the old queen leaves the hive."

I was planning on this method so I am glad to get confirmation. I also know that the drone situation would make this a futile effort and I have a fair drone population and they are from 2 unrelated queens. This is what I was very surprised at-the number of Drones in the hives. I also have a fair amount of drone brood so I think if a queen is hatched and survives her mating flights she will be OK from an open mating standpoint.
I will keep and eye on the hives for a while and if it all look like it will play out I'll try a split that may just give me some good stock and enough of it for some foragers to take advantage of our honey flow which is early March-mid May.
Am I correct in figuring about 6 weeks before a new queen is made and laying and brood is hatching? Queen 14 days after the hive seals a queen cell which I think is about 1-2 days. Mating flights 1-5 days successful egg laying-3-5 days and workers hatching in 21 days?
Now to really push my luck should I try (if I even get anywhere near this far) small cell foundation? I've had people say it's ok from day one and read elsewhere it takes 2-3 years to convert?
This beekeeping data is as varied as anything I've experienced.
Thanks for the help.

[Brian D. Bray]

Am I correct in figuring about 6 weeks before a new queen is made and laying and brood is hatching? Queen 14 days after the hive seals a queen cell which I think is about 1-2 days. Mating flights 1-5 days successful egg laying-3-5 days and workers hatching in 21 days?

3 weeks is a good measure sometimes it's more.  Figure for the 1st week after hatching the new queen is in mating mode.  Actually she matures for 2-3 days and then goes mating.  If you don't have evidence of brood within 30 days after hatch it's time to do some investigation.

Now to really push my luck should I try (if I even get anywhere near this far) small cell foundation? I've had people say it's ok from day one and read elsewhere it takes 2-3 years to convert?
This beekeeping data is as varied as anything I've experienced.
Thanks for the help.

You can use commercial small cell if you like, it will speed up the conversion process or you can do as I did and just switch to foundationless (using starter strip of pc sticks) and let them regress more naturally.  The foundationless method will take about 2-3 years.  If you move the bottom brood boxes up each year, then in 3 years you have mostly small cell in the brood chamber where you want it.

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