Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 23, 2014, 07:05:09 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Cheap Chinese honey on the shelf.....  (Read 3165 times)
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2009, 08:45:12 PM »

China does it...bad, bad, bad! Local guy does it....and it's nothing but slice and dice rationalization at it's best, mixed in with assumptive excuses.

[/quote]

I'm not trying to throw anything back, but I do find offense in the above comment.  I mean, you are comparing a beekeeper who sells cheaply to Chinese imported honey, which we all "know" is bad.

I'm assuming the beekeeper knows exactly what he's selling for, you are assuming he doesn't know that he can charge more for it. (or "she" as the case may be)

Perhaps, perhaps not.  I could get more money for my honey, but I choose not to.  I guess if that makes me a chinese honey importer, so be it  tongue   I suppose I'll go back to lurking too....beat a dead horse
Logged

Rick
TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2009, 09:03:29 PM »

whats with all this lurking, might as well be mutt and have no say so at all, everyone can express their thoughts and knowledge on this forum as long as it is in the line of Rules of the forum, that's one of the reasons John started this site. none of this lurking junk please, this is for "everyone"!!!!!! say what you are thinking but remember some things might not be meant as they are said, we have people that are not good with English from other countries and some from this one  tongue but we all are learning and coming in with different points of views.
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
CaptainCanuck
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14

Location: Hopelessly Banned


« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2009, 09:45:41 PM »

Thank you for the lesson on reality Twt.
Logged
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2009, 10:31:33 PM »

China does it...bad, bad, bad! Local guy does it....and it's nothing but slice and dice rationalization at it's best, mixed in with assumptive excuses.


I'm not trying to throw anything back, but I do find offense in the above comment.  I mean, you are comparing a beekeeper who sells cheaply to Chinese imported honey, which we all "know" is bad.

I'm assuming the beekeeper knows exactly what he's selling for, you are assuming he doesn't know that he can charge more for it. (or "she" as the case may be)

Perhaps, perhaps not.  I could get more money for my honey, but I choose not to.  I guess if that makes me a chinese honey importer, so be it  tongue   I suppose I'll go back to lurking too....beat a dead horse
[/quote]

Scads,
You have me at a loss of words. Or at least I'm not sure how you "take offense" based on the sentence you selectively quoted.

The other "sister' thread asked if one thought selling honey at a particular price was "selling yourself short". I brought this thread into it to make a point about public perception. How some people perceive a product based on price. If you go back and read the first post, it had to do with understanding how the buying public may view this beekeeper. And the thread asking the question, in itself, makes a statement about this by the fact it was brought up in the other thread.

But what I find hard to understand, is that others have suggested "maybe he needs to pay bills" or even suggest that the public down in Mississippi just can not afford higher prices. Unto itself, what a slap in the face of the seller, and the people of Mississippi. But yet, when I suggest that perhaps the store owner lacks selling or marketing skills, or lacks knowledge on pricing, this is seen as some big negative. Why? It may be true. It may not be true. It's not about getting hung up on some personal level in regards to a person neither one of us knows.

I brought "Chinese" honey into this, to make a point on public perception. How some will think the worst on a low priced item. And from what the store owner said, many people had expressed their concerns. They didn't say "What a great price on this honey"...they said "Your selling to low"...which as others have acknowledged, whether honey or cars, raises flags in peoples minds.

I was not trying to call him Chinese, or anything beyond pointing out public perception. How this is offensive is beyond me.

I think your reading way too much into it, and base reading "my" comments through "your" eyes. The very same eyes you claim anyone not on your level is.....how did you say it? Granola munchers with too much disposable income". Forgive me if that was not exact. I think it was close.

I don't know anything about this store owner other than what was told in the original post. The discussion is not a personal bio on this beekeeper, but a discussion of selling aspects, public perception. etc.

The discussion is exactly what my point was. If you see cheap honey from China, people look at it negatively. If you see cheap honey labeled locally, people may also see that negatively. Of course, I did not realize personal assumptions made by others, like the idea that the store owner is behind in his bills and the only way to pay the mortgage was to unload his honey...  grin

Anyways, my comparison was to point out public perception in both cases. It's just one is more easily to understand. I could of used any country for the example. Cheaply priced honey is cheaply priced honey, regardless of the origin. And people will raise flags.

This is not about a single beekeeper in Mississippi. It is about an open discussion that many can read. Possibly about things they never thought of. Perhaps it will help someone.

Please do tell, how a discussion about possible impact, public perception, and other matters here, in regards to a beekeeper or store owner neither of us know, can be offensive or offend you so. It can not be for the mere fact I used "China" in the discussion. Nothing you said, even your somewhat negative stance on others with more money than you, and your comments about "granola" types, "offends" me.

 delivery   beat a dead horse  cheer  I had a stick delivered to my house. I'm now beating the horse. But look forward to a drink...
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2009, 11:12:13 PM »

Quote
    delivery    beat a dead horse  cheer  I had a stick delivered to my house. I'm now beating the horse. But look forward to a drink...

Take from me, a 2X4 works better than a stick..  One did wonders on my back.

Quote
The discussion is exactly what my point was. If you see cheap honey from China, people look at it negatively. If you see cheap honey labeled locally, people may also see that negatively. Of course, I did not realize personal assumptions made by others, like the idea that the store owner is behind in his bills and the only way to pay the mortgage was to unload his honey... 

Anyways, my comparison was to point out public perception in both cases. It's just one is more easily to understand. I could of used any country for the example. Cheaply priced honey is cheaply priced honey, regardless of the origin. And people will raise flags.

Forest Gump says" "Cheap is as cheap does."  I agree with you Bjorn, too many people's idea of marketing is a piece of torn cardboard with 4 SALE written on it.  This just doesn't convey the right message and is self-defeating.  Of course that same sign will be found to be posted near the $2.99 a quart honey.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 11:22:19 PM by Brian D. Bray » Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
CaptainCanuck
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14

Location: Hopelessly Banned


« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2009, 11:44:03 PM »

Quote
    delivery    beat a dead horse  :cheer:I had a stick delivered to my house. I'm now beating the horse. But look forward to a drink...

Take from me, a 2X4 works better than a stick..  One did wonders on my back.

Quote
The discussion is exactly what my point was. If you see cheap honey from China, people look at it negatively. If you see cheap honey labeled locally, people may also see that negatively. Of course, I did not realize personal assumptions made by others, like the idea that the store owner is behind in his bills and the only way to pay the mortgage was to unload his honey... 

Anyways, my comparison was to point out public perception in both cases. It's just one is more easily to understand. I could of used any country for the example. Cheaply priced honey is cheaply priced honey, regardless of the origin. And people will raise flags.

Forest Gump says" "Cheap is as cheap does."  I agree with you Bjorn, too many people's idea of marketing is a piece of torn cardboard with 4 SALE written on it.  This just doesn't convey the right message and is self-defeating.  Of course that same sign will be found to be posted near the $2.99 a quart honey.

..... sometimes "marketing" is a guy selling 200 pounds of honey for $6 a pound and he thinks he as the tiger by the tail.  grin  ............. Show me the money!!!!!!!!!  grin
Logged
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2009, 08:27:17 AM »

I admit it, I lied about lurking... rolleyes

Quote
The discussion is exactly what my point was. If you see cheap honey from China, people look at it negatively. If you see cheap honey labeled locally, people may also see that negatively.

Ok, I guess this is the point of contention, a difference in personal viewpoints.  I agree that we view cheap honey from china as bad.  Keep in mind, that not all do, and some people are grateful to have affordable honey, regardless of the source or cruddy flavor.

I see your point about public perception.  But my point is that that may be the perception of SOME, but there are others that have a different perception, myself included.

I know that many share my personal feeling, when I see a local product for sale, with minimal packaging, for a cheap price (or in my terms "affordable"  Wink ) then I'm grateful for it and am more inclined to try it, good local stuff.   I don't buy the expensive (or in my terms "overpriced"  tongue) stuff at the market, but I won't buy the cruddy stuff either. 

If I see a quality product at a low price, I don't question the price, I buy it.  I may make a comment that it is cheaper than everywhere else, but mostly because I'm happy about it and that makes me talk Smiley.  I think in the MS case referenced, this may be the case in the majority of comments to the store owner. (MAY be, I'll admit that is an assumption)

But I'm ok with this all, we're different people, different viewpoints, we're both represented here.  I understand.. 

The horse is dead.  Time for those the drinks... cheer  Just no hitting me with 2x4's, thanks my back is fine!! grin

« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 08:40:17 AM by Scadsobees » Logged

Rick
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2009, 08:38:20 AM »


Forest Gump says" "Cheap is as cheap does."  I agree with you Bjorn, too many people's idea of marketing is a piece of torn cardboard with 4 SALE written on it.  This just doesn't convey the right message and is self-defeating.  Of course that same sign will be found to be posted near the $2.99 a quart honey.

I agree with that, but I was assuming the arguement was between the $7/qt honey and the $15/qt honey  tongue....there's affordable Wink on a stand by the house and then there is CHEAP under the torn cardboard....
Logged

Rick
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6221


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2009, 10:00:10 AM »

I know repairing posts for errors in critical spelling is one thing, when you change the story of the post is just one more way things happen - I personally believe that BOTH HEAR AND NOW in the HISTORY of the WORLD - CHINA is the EARTH'S WAL-MART. We need to figure out a way where we can make autoparts from raw steel CHEAPER than sending raw material and then made into doors there and sent back ready for installation.

SERIOUS QUESTION

As American's, how LITTLE INCOME are we supposed to be EXPECTED TO RECEIVE AN HOURS WAGES FOR AN HOURS WORK - are you telling me, in order for the US to be competitives amd for adjusting for the populations $6.80 and hour. This is ho much the average world person make a year doing what you and where you do it.

Could YOU afford to live at $6.80 per HOUR personal income IF it cured all our money issues in 8 years - lord help us when housing round 2 in 2010 ans 2011 (starting to sound like 2012 around here) I think we are in for a deep ride, one where we are just below the fridged ice like a turtle you pop your head up to breath, but in your economy - you see a bleak harvest for a decade - face it.

I and my wife make about 3.5 times that $6.80 each and in our area, you would only raise one child few people ever have more than 2. We are concidared the LOWER MIDDLE CLASS in the PA and NY income Scales. There - anyone good with a calculator can figure that out - some may be happy for us others disappointed, but we earmed every penny of it!

Bjorn - I think there is only one answer - it is almst Heaven sent "American's need to sell honey cheaper than Importing it in from china" That then means, we have two choices really 1) RETOOL to an ACCAPTED NATIONWIDE TRADE of cost effective material and board our bees cheaper or 2 accept that China is Tropical and NO WHERE IN THE UNITED STATES do we claim TROPICAL every day of the year. THEY MAKE HONEY 3 to 4 more months a year than we do MINIMALLY.

It is simply obvious to me they don't have any down time, honey is harvested like rice there and we do not stand a chance. They will sell honey to America at 1/3rd the price UNTIL WE TAKE ACTION and MAKE USE OF THIS NEW GOVERNMENT and try and have theme EXISE (sp) honey imports until it costs as much as ours - That acually sounds nuts, but we need one big US Honey sales production, it really is like playing a game of STREGO we need to get MADE IN USA the label's TITLE if need be. I don't think the American beefarmer can win a long term battle with the RED PIECE on the game board.

We are all mom and pops compared to the buyers at wal-mart. That can sell it for $2.99 a pound exported from China, until we offer a cost effective solution to meet Wallys needs (and that is cheaper honey) well... Wally will never want our honey and all supermarkets label their own from millions of drums that flood our shores every year.

mage, MOST AMERICANS have never tasted REAL AMERICAN HONEY - what a shame too - we have such a variety, a rainbow of colors and tastes.

There if we need I slogan, I'll create it:   

America's Honey: a rainbow of colors and Tastes.


This may sound whacked, but does US MADE honey imndustry from all the collective growers. Can't we be RETOOLED to become something close to competitive?

I'm only asking because I think we have lost MUCH of the US MArket - and getting it back may not be the answer to the problem. We need to make OUR HONEY a GOURMET PRODUCT to the Chinese and the REST OF THE WORLD. We need to prove to the world that HONEY is NOT JUST HONEY.

Other than that, and I'm no Abe Lincoln - never could soapbox - someone out there has to be smart enough and figure it all out on a computer program. What a data base it would be, but all US honey sold Gourmet around the world, we could net GREAT MONEY once the WORLD knows the truth.

Give me a good Buckwheat honey, and I'll God Bless America - amen. Hope we get our stuff together, either when things level out and ecconomy grows (best case scenario in the Obama's Scenario - didn't he paint a dark picture of things, it was like DARTH VADAR walked into the room during his Presidential lunchion.

I wonder, how much does your face hurt if you have to smill as much as he has in the last two years. Esppecially the last few days. Gonna be fun watching a family in the White House again, but someone needs to tell him in no uncertain terms that American Bee Farmers will goe EXSTINCT if thinds don't change - TERRIFS on imported honey, enough a pound to equal what it minimally costs and still feeds us to produce.

I'm willing to fight an Ecomonic war like the world has never seen. I'll promise that everything, to the best of our ability,  will be US MADE - of cource I got to eat and buy gas, and everything we all buy from what little we really get paid. Some are luckier that other, many are wealthy compared to the few who are poor.

I still don't know, was that even helpful or just a simple mans silly wishes??
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 10:14:49 AM by beemaster » Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
MrILoveTheAnts
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 716


Location: Somerdale, New Jersey


WWW
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2009, 11:35:07 AM »

A few years ago (2005 I think) I visited a friend in Massachusetts. Next to his house was a little One Stop Shop and they were selling that poor Chinese man's honey for $8.50 a lb. plus tax. I said HAHA! way louder than I should have in the small store and was asked to leave. This was one of those towns up there they just decided to build a few houses on the sides of cliffs in the middle of their dense forest land. I guess they don't get much honey out there.

So maybe I'm missing the point of this thread. It's their own fault for selling their honey where they can't present it properly. The difference between a beggar and a con artiest is one wears a tie and has a better sales pitch. It's all in the presentation. Now I don't know what the hell the owners of that One Stop Shop were thinking but if they can get away with it fair enough. $5 for a lb. of honey isn't asking much considering all the work one has to go thorough. I'd say every year of doing this all the money I make selling honey has gone to paying for what I spent Last Year. I've never had a single hive produce 100 lbs. of honey in a year before either. But we'll see what next year brings.

Honey is one of the most expensive "herbs" you can buy for cooking, and you'll never see Blueberry honey, Goldenrod, or Alaskan Fireweed sold from China.
Logged

tlynn
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 529

Location: Tampa Bay, Florida


« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2009, 05:05:03 PM »


America's Honey: a rainbow of colors and Tastes.

This may sound whacked, but does US MADE honey imndustry from all the collective growers. Can't we be RETOOLED to become something close to competitive?

I'm only asking because I think we have lost MUCH of the US MArket - and getting it back may not be the answer to the problem. We need to make OUR HONEY a GOURMET PRODUCT to the Chinese and the REST OF THE WORLD. We need to prove to the world that HONEY is NOT JUST HONEY.

Yes!  As I have said in other posts here, I believe it's ALL about marketing, or rather education, which crafted well, is the best marketing.  I concede I am a fairly new beekeeper without experience selling this particular product, yet I am convinced that most folks just don't have enough experience in marketing to effectively sell a product and command high prices.  Once I started learning how to market, a lot changed.  It doesn't matter whether it's cars, golf balls, honey, or swizel sticks.  If you educate people about the product you're the one who's going to get the sale.  A very effective marketing tool is emphasizing the negative to create concern and doubt while educating:

Fictitious example.  Numbers NOT correct.  I'm making this up for example  -

Warning - Seven reasons You Should Find out Where Your Honey Comes From Before You buy!
1) Did you know 80% of the supermarket honey in the US comes from China?
2) Did you know China uses over 4 million tons of pesticides/yr on crops that are pollinated by bees?
3) Did you know imported honey has been found to be adulterated with corn syrup?
4) Did you know large scale honey operations heat the honey to quickly extract it, thus killing all the beneficial enzymes?

etc...

Seven items using this technique seems to be most effective.  Maybe lucky 7, I don't know.  But more than 7 and you start to lose people.  Do some statistical research on what's going on with imported honey and create a 7 reasons type ad campaign with those "shocking" numbers and if your ad is getting to folks I'll bet your sales will go way up.

The idea is you are letting your potential customer draw their own conclusions about whose honey they are going to buy.  And of course that conclusion they draw is to buy your honey because they wouldn't want to even touch the alternative!  The reason this method is so effective is because nobody likes to be sold, but everybody loves to buy.  That's how you compete.  It's not about bringing your costs in line with Chinese honey.  That's impossible because our cost of living in the US is much higher.  You have to make people say "Yuck" and "No Way" when they see SueBee honey at Kroger.  A lot of people WILL spend more when they know what they are buying.
Logged
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2009, 05:25:30 PM »


America's Honey: a rainbow of colors and Tastes.

This may sound whacked, but does US MADE honey imndustry from all the collective growers. Can't we be RETOOLED to become something close to competitive?

I'm only asking because I think we have lost MUCH of the US MArket - and getting it back may not be the answer to the problem. We need to make OUR HONEY a GOURMET PRODUCT to the Chinese and the REST OF THE WORLD. We need to prove to the world that HONEY is NOT JUST HONEY.


Yes!  As I have said in other posts here, I believe it's ALL about marketing, or rather education, which crafted well, is the best marketing.  I concede I am a fairly new beekeeper without experience selling this particular product, yet I am convinced that most folks just don't have enough experience in marketing to effectively sell a product and command high prices.  Once I started learning how to market, a lot changed.  It doesn't matter whether it's cars, golf balls, honey, or swizel sticks.  If you educate people about the product you're the one who's going to get the sale.  A very effective marketing tool is emphasizing the negative to create concern and doubt while educating:

Fictitious example.  Numbers NOT correct.  I'm making this up for example  -

Warning - Seven reasons You Should Find out Where Your Honey Comes From Before You buy!
1) Did you know 80% of the supermarket honey in the US comes from China?
2) Did you know China uses over 4 million tons of pesticides/yr on crops that are pollinated by bees?
3) Did you know imported honey has been found to be adulterated with corn syrup?
4) Did you know large scale honey operations heat the honey to quickly extract it, thus killing all the beneficial enzymes?

etc...

Seven items using this technique seems to be most effective.  Maybe lucky 7, I don't know.  But more than 7 and you start to lose people.  Do some statistical research on what's going on with imported honey and create a 7 reasons type ad campaign with those "shocking" numbers and if your ad is getting to folks I'll bet your sales will go way up.

The idea is you are letting your potential customer draw their own conclusions about whose honey they are going to buy.  And of course that conclusion they draw is to buy your honey because they wouldn't want to even touch the alternative!  The reason this method is so effective is because nobody likes to be sold, but everybody loves to buy.  That's how you compete.  It's not about bringing your costs in line with Chinese honey.  That's impossible because our cost of living in the US is much higher.  You have to make people say "Yuck" and "No Way" when they see SueBee honey at Kroger.  A lot of people WILL spend more when they know what they are buying.

the problem with chinese honey is not pesticides it is antibiotics from poor watter and under regulation - Wink RDY-B

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/news/index.htm#Chinese%20Honey%20Contaminated





Logged
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2009, 05:33:33 PM »

Quote
  in no uncertain terms that American Bee Farmers will goe EXSTINCT if thinds don't change - TERRIFS on imported honey, enough a pound to equal what it minimally costs and still feeds us to produce.

I'm willing to fight an Ecomonic war like the world has never seen. I'll promise that everything, to the best of our ability,  will be US MADE - of cource I got to eat and buy gas, and everything we all buy from what little we really get paid. Some are luckier that other, many are wealthy compared to the few who are poor.


 cool work is in progress but like the mighty oak grows slow but strong-RDY-B
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/news/index.htm#ANTI-DUMPING%20FACTS

Logged
tlynn
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 529

Location: Tampa Bay, Florida


« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2009, 06:14:00 PM »

the problem with chinese honey is not pesticides it is antibiotics from poor watter and under regulation - Wink RDY-B

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/news/index.htm#Chinese%20Honey%20Contaminated



Thanks for the correction RDY-B.  Like I said I was just making up something for example and was not using factual data. smiley
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.929 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page June 12, 2014, 11:36:50 PM
anything