Got some great info from the local extension office, as well as, the great info here on the forum. I had never thought about erect type instead of trellis, but that seems to be the going thing. Looks like Kiowa(thorny), Arapaho, and Navaho are the best for my area. Rasp don't do that well in the heat, but there is one, Dormanred, that I might try. I'll put in around 20 plants this spring and 20 more in the fall. I want to get around 2-3, 100 foot rows started. Also, put in a 1/4 acre of clover this fall--then all my bees have almost died!!! We have enough land to do lots of things but my father is so conservative that he NEVER tries anything new.