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Author Topic: Small Cell Colonies  (Read 17678 times)

Offline TwT

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Small Cell Colonies
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2005, 11:52:20 PM »
heres a site i found dealing with measureing cells

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/cellcount.htm
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Offline Jerrymac

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Small Cell Colonies
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2005, 11:25:38 AM »
One other problem with measuring ten cells is you are including the cell walls. One of the respondance to the above link said a ten year old comb measured 5. something. But how big was the inside diameter of each individual cell?

Others measured brace comb or burr comb. Bees naturally make different sized cells. Not having any experience with the stuff this is off the top of my head. The bees are trying to plug a gap that is too big. Why bother with placing a whole lot of small cells there if large ones will do it quicker, and more efficent? Then a lot of the respondance were from more northern climates, and all were from overseas, at least the ones I saw. And I am guessing none of them had smaller bees from smaller cells. There fore the bigger be would make a bigger cell. Then.... ain't it funny there were no posted results at all of smaller cell sizes? Why not? When someone is trying to prove a point for their side and has control of what information is put out, would they fail to point out the results that goes against their theory?
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Offline asleitch

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Small Cell Colonies
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2005, 11:40:18 AM »
Quote from: Jerrymac
One other problem with measuring ten cells is you are including the cell walls. One of the respondance to the above link said a ten year old comb measured 5. something. But how big was the inside diameter of each individual cell?


I always presume that cell wall is "included" in these measurements, and so we are comparing fairly much "like-for-like" when people say 4.9, or 5.1 or whatever. However the number doesn't actually correspond directly to internal diameter, it gives a relative measure, and from that, you can determine a "standard" and from the work out if people are larger or smaller, and if you need to specifically work out the internal diamater for whatever reason, you can subtract the "average" cell wall. I'd always presumed this technique was a quic and easy method to allow people to accurately and quickly provide a guage of the size.
 Although the inside diameter will change over a period of use, due to build up of layers, most people discard comb less than every five years at most, and in that time, it's likely to be pretty insignificant.

Acutally I've just re-read that - 10 year old comb  :shock: . Perhaps I need to reassess what i wrote above. I'll be shaking my hives onto brand new foundation come the spring flow, just like the whole brood went onto new foundation last year*

*Although I'm happy to use chemicals, my apiary is on an organic farm, and think it would be morally incorrect for me to use chemicals if I don't have to. I reckon I took a hit on the honey (maybe) but it did seem to control the varroa.

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Offline Lesli

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« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2005, 06:55:45 PM »
Quote
*Although I'm happy to use chemicals, my apiary is on an organic farm, and think it would be morally incorrect for me to use chemicals if I don't have to. I reckon I took a hit on the honey (maybe) but it did seem to control the varroa.


I garden on my 10 acres, just herbs, flowers and veggies for myself. So far, I've kept that organic, since chemicals wouldn't give me any advantage--I don't have pest problems, and have plenty of compost to use as fertilizer. Plants and seeds are expensive enough without buying more stuff. :)

My pets get regular, if high quality pet food, and get their shots regularly. I take medicine when Ineed it. All of which is to say I'm not a fanatic about these things.

I think the chemical route in bees bothers me because coming into beekeeping, some of the first things I read were that mites were beginning to become resistant. So that leaves FGMO, oxalic acid, small cell, essential oils, SBBs, and so on.  And whatever comes down the pike from the chemical companies.  And I'm having a darned hard time finding peer reviewed science around these issues. Experiments, yes. Experiments by scientists, yes. But not multiple, long term, verified stuff.

As for small cell and the Lusbys' impressive results, it would not surprise me if part of the success is that their colonies are mildly Africanized. Those genetic tests were done on their bees, and showed Caucasian, Carni, and AHB genes. We know AHBs are hardly affected at all by mites.  That, and ten years of bees allowed to die if they couldn't cope with mites no doubt helped their success.

So I'm running my own experiments. I can afford to. I really do want this to be a sideline, but I also live in an area where "organic" is valued. While I probably can't meet organic standards because of where I live, if I can keep healthy hives with no chemical treatments, my honey may well fetch a higher price. And, like using compost rather than fertilizer, it's cheaper. :)
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Offline Jay

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« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2005, 12:53:49 AM »
Cheaper, hell it's free!! :lol:

Hey Lesli, I just got an e-mail from Ross up there in Albany advertising his packages and nucs for '05.  Have you ever done any business with him? Ever bought bees from him? He is advertising carnolian nucs for $79 and I thought that was a pretty good price! Let me know what you think.:)
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Offline Lesli

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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2005, 06:36:56 AM »
I haven't, but I think that's one of the places my club was considering buying from. IN NY, you can also try Drapers.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Small Cell Colonies
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2005, 01:39:28 PM »
>One other problem with measuring ten cells is you are including the cell walls. One of the respondance to the above link said a ten year old comb measured 5. something. But how big was the inside diameter of each individual cell?

Cell walls are quite consistent diameter.  0.1mm +-0.02mm.

Yes you should include all the cell walls except the last one, or from the middle of the first to the middle of the last one.

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