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Author Topic: Feeding in winter-Fondant? CoffeeMate?  (Read 1474 times)
challenger
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« on: January 15, 2009, 08:42:54 AM »

Hello all - I am sure we all know sugar syrup in the cold will be untouched in cold weather unless it is very easy for the bees to get at when there is enough warmth in the hive for them to break cluster. I suspect this is still very chancy as it still has to have the water removed from it which takes a lot of energy so I wanted to ask if anyone uses fondant and if so can one make their own?
I have one hive that could use some feeding and was contemplating using some empty deep comb and dribbling into the cells as much honey as I could fit in it???
We are about to get some temps in the teens so I insulated my hives to try and save the Spring like amount of brood that 2 of them have and to keep them from needing as much honey to keep the hive warm during the cold snap.
I also ran across something crazy but though I would pose the question. As I was making the 15th cup of coffee  for the AM I noticed that coffeemate states it's main ingredient as "corn sugar solids" yesterday. For giggles I sprinkled some at the entrance of a strong hive-the bees were flying yesterday. It was maybe 1/2 tsp at most adn when I went back 15 min later it was gone and I could see the bees eating it. I know they may be consuming it only to get rid of it and I didn't give them enough to cause any wide spread dysentery  but I couldn't help but try this experiment-has anyone else?
Thanks - Howard
Hampstead, NC
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 08:55:52 AM »

They more probably collected it for pollen.  As long as they are flying, dysentary isn't such a problem.

-rick
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Rick
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 11:00:04 AM »

Coffee-mate powder

The first two ingredients are as follows: Corn Syrup Solids, Vegetable Oil (Partially hydrogenated coconut or palm kernel, canola, hydrogenated palm, soybean, cottonseed, or safflower).

It's bad for you...Trans fats, and chemicals...I imagine it isn't good for bees either.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 12:59:33 PM »

Yes you can make your own fondant.  I'm not much for feeding corn syrup because of it's contamination with neonicotinoids.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,18024.msg134930.html#msg134930

I still rely on white sugar for feeding in an emergency.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/emergency-feeding/
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challenger
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 01:49:45 PM »

This is not a negative comment first and foremost but I am finding this business/or hobby to have more conflicting information by expert beeks than I would have ever imagined. Several publicatoins & books maintain fondant is the one and only. Personally I thought honey dribbled into empty comb would have gotten the biggest thumbs up??
I still find all the information very helpful but it is not easy to pick my poison.
Thanks - Howard
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 03:05:29 PM »

Several publicatoins & books maintain fondant is the one and only.
Keep in mind,  most books are dated.  It has only been the last few years that books include things like varroa,  let alone more recent findings like contamination of the corn syrup supply.

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Personally I thought honey dribbled into empty comb would have gotten the biggest thumbs up??

Your own honey is the best,  but most don't have it to use.   Some plan ahead and freeze frames of honey to feed back to weak hives and this would be the best method.

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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 04:05:32 PM »

I remember a report on a low-quality "feed" HFCS that was looked at for neonicotinoids. But beyond that, can someone direct me to any report that consistently or shows across the board that all HFCS is tainted with neonicotinoids.

I would also be interested in finding out where the studies are that show NO chemicals in white sugar.


And interesting article in Bee Culture Jan 09 issue about some work J. Berry is doing. In her article called "Pesticides, Bees and Wax" she was seeking some clean comb. Ended up going all the way to the "supposed" organic center of the universe, in Brazil for comb, where no beekeepers use chemicals for mites. So what happens when she brought it back and tested it? Stuff may not of had beekeeper standard chemicals, but was so loaded with other chemicals and pesticides, it made the study useless for any research purposes.

So I'll ask two simple questions for those "red flag" wavers, about HFCS. One, show me your studies that you could across the board claim it is tainted with neonicotinoids. Two, show me the same studies that allow you to claim sugar is untainted.

Almost all food products are allowed to carry a certain amount of pesticides and chemical tainting. And I'm not here to say that it's OK. But I'll bet my next paycheck, that for every person claiming HFCS is bad, that the same is probably true in regards to the alternative that you push as a replacement.

And don't give me some article about 8 parts per billion, and no actual research to back it up, when the same studies of CCD hives show astronomical levels of every day chemicals numbering dozens of types,  that the bees pick up.

Yeah, like the thing you need to worry about is HFCS. Commercial queens probably are tainted way beyond that based on research.

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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 07:04:53 PM »

I remember a report on a low-quality "feed" HFCS that was looked at for neonicotinoids. But beyond that, can someone direct me to any report that consistently or shows across the board that all HFCS is tainted with neonicotinoids.

So I'll ask two simple questions for those "red flag" wavers, about HFCS. One, show me your studies that you could across the board claim it is tainted with neonicotinoids. Two, show me the same studies that allow you to claim sugar is untainted.

Almost all food products are allowed to carry a certain amount of pesticides and chemical tainting. And I'm not here to say that it's OK. But I'll bet my next paycheck, that for every person claiming HFCS is bad, that the same is probably true in regards to the alternative that you push as a replacement.

And don't give me some article about 8 parts per billion, and no actual research to back it up, when the same studies of CCD hives show astronomical levels of every day chemicals numbering dozens of types,  that the bees pick up.

Yeah, like the thing you need to worry about is HFCS. Commercial queens probably are tainted way beyond that based on research.

Regarding HFCS as containing neonicotinoids:  It is an extrapolation of some facts:  GMO foods, such as corn and wheat, have neinicotinoids gentically spliced into them to make them more hardy and pest resistant.  Since the substances are there in the GMO foods, then it is only logical that their byproducts would also be higher in those substances.

I will give you the point reference the chemicals found in the Amazon Basin as even the most remote areas are still subjected to diverse chemicals due to hydrology from farmed areas.  Such as, here in the PNW the chemicals found in the Salt water is more apt to be highter in chemicals due to the recent and extensive flooding that has occurred.
Chemicals have been so widely dispersed by man that nature has continued to spread that contamination world wide.  I would bet that snow and ice samples from the Artic and Antacartic will show increasingly increasing amounts of chemcials over the last 100 years.

To me the whole thing is a red flag.  We need to do less chemical farming and increased compost farming.  One is a mixed "bleeptail" boost and the other is more natural using what is considered wastes to replenish the soil.  As it stands the chemicals are so wide spread that it will take decades without chemcials to restore some sembulance of natural balance, even if we stopped the use of chemicals immediately.

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Two, show me the same studies that allow you to claim sugar is untainted.

Can't do that because it would be impossible.  Chemical use is just too wide spread.  As it stands now, due to pesticides and herbicide use, you can't really find any real truly organic foods either.  People can use organic methods to reduce the amount of contamination but they can't remove what is already there.
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challenger
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2009, 08:46:00 AM »

They more probably collected it for pollen.  As long as they are flying, dysentary isn't such a problem.

-rick

Oh yes it is! My bees were collecting pollen and I suddenly got some low intestinal rumbling that set me on a an emergency run to see "John". Another conflicting beekeeping "fact". I can assure you they were flying but it was a problem Wink 
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