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Author Topic: I must protest  (Read 11061 times)
beemaster
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« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2009, 02:20:48 PM »

I just keep thinking if I ever need to wear a shoulder holster in my own home, carry a concealed weapon to go food shopping or a sword can and 4 inch knife just incase, I'm read to be put in a straight jacket cause the world has totally gone to hell.

Might as well just commit a felony to go to prison, it sounds safer than some of the situations I read here.

I'm glad NJ has tough gun laws, I've never ONCE in my life said "I wish I had a GUN" and don't expect too - maybe you all live in the Wild West, but here in the subburbs the news papers aren't filled will daily horror stories of where "If only they were packing heat, they'd be alive to tell you their story."

I know bad things happen, it is no safer here than anywhere, terrible things happen everywhere - and I recognise that many people don't have a crappy 1/3rd acre in a nice neighborhood where little crime ever happens - I know I'd feel differently if I had property to protect and the only law enforcement that will be there to protect me is ME.

But, just put me in away the day that here I feel the need to carry weapons in every pocket or holster I can carry. Trust me, in New Jersey, you have a weapon on you outside your home, you are likely going to jail because carry permits aren't handed out like Halloween candy. I guess I just don't know what I'm missing, but the further I am from weapons the safer I feel. And believe me, no matter how gun toting this post may appear to be, there are many people who agree with me in the world, again - this subject is for those who enjoy and cherrish their guns, no matter what the purpose. Maybe I'm the lucky one and never had a need for a firearm of any kind, and it would be the last thing I'd want in my house - but PLEASE don't condemn my thinking, state laws and how we are brought up dictate a lot of how we see such issues. Here in one of the mostly populated states, where the average square mile has 5,000 to 10,000 people, I wouldn't want that kind of arsenal in the hands of the public, I just don't have that much faith in mankind and forgive me if I think the police are the ones chosen to have EXTRAORINARY RIGHTS and able to carry and use weapons, speed and break the law in many in order to uphold the law.

It is a big country, I'm just telling you how it is here. Not putting down your way, it just isn't mine.
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« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2009, 03:07:29 PM »

you sure have the right to put your safety in the hands of others.  you'll forgive the rest of us for not having quite the same faith in our government.  i hope never to have to use my gun.  i hope never to be in the position where my safety is at stake and i have to wait for someone to come and rescue me.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #82 on: February 26, 2009, 03:39:22 PM »

I really get a kick out of some of these commercials about home security systems. One of them is a teenage daughter is home alone. Her parents just left and she did set the alarm. Some guy kicks in the door and the alarm sounds, she sees him and screams. The guy runs off.... indicating the alarm scared him away. The phone rings and it is the security people asking her if she is OK and to stay on the line while they call the cops. Not real sure of the response time for the cops or security to show up  huh

If it was someone out to do harm to the girl he would have had time to do it. If she just happened to not set the alarm......

But the guy got away to kick in other doors.

But if she was properly trained with firearms..... One less bad guy.
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« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2009, 04:52:43 PM »

You're right, Beemaster, I've never heard anyone say if they had had a gun, the rapist or robber wouldn't have killed them. Of course, I've never heard a dead person say anything else, either. One of the closest calls I have ever had was in South Plainfield, NJ. I don't share your feelings on how safe your state is.
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« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2009, 07:59:42 PM »

I've looked loaded guns in the bore, eye to eye, so to speak, I've had to draw a weapon with intent to use it, and I've slways came away in one piece but battered.  I haven't had to  shoot anyone yet, but I know I can because I've been so close to it.

All it takes is one time and you're either dead or wished you'd had a gun.  Whether its a group of teenagers or grown men, it don't matter the results the same.  If you think having your home burlgarlized makes you feel violated, a physical assualt makes you feel not only violated but powerless, hopeless, etc, and for a woman it is even worse than for a man.  Men can't comprehend how tramatic a rape is to a woman, that's the ultimate violation.

I'd rather die defending me and mine than die because I was unarmed and unable to counter or retailate to an invasioon, assualt, or other crime directed at me.

I'm basically an optomistic person but I've been a cop long enough to know that you have to watch your own back, you can't rely on anyone else to do it.  99,9% of the time a cop is never there when you need one, in the real world he doesn't show up for at least 3 minutes, if you're lucky,  and sometimes not at all.
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« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2009, 03:44:16 AM »

As predicted, the animalistic idiots mentioned in my earlier post, were arrested today. Now we wait for the law to take its course.

My prediction.

Released on bail.
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beemaster
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« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2009, 07:37:31 AM »

whoa Iddee.... Never said  New Jersey is a SAFE STATE, far from it, Tenton, Camden, Newark and so many other surrounding areas, I have told my wife that if she somehow gets lost in that area to LOOK AND SEE IT IS SAFE and run every single traffic light to get out of Dodge - if she is pulled over by the police, THAT is the best case scenario - they know to get her out of town and would never ticket her, they are all jungles of gang activity and thugs.

But my home, a small subburbian community of a hundred or so homes, very eclectic community ( all races, middle class just trying to raise educated kids and do the right thing) and a good handful of seniors also just trying to make the best of their remaining years.

I see things from the prospective of the three houses I can see across the street, my direct neighbors and the protected wilderness behind me. I have lived within a mile and a half of this area for 50 years and never seen crime, I know it happens here like everywhere, but I'm happy that things are peaceful here, not Shangrala, just what we all hope for, quiet neighbors who you can wayve to across the fence and say hi because you know their names and they know yours and I know when we aren'y home 76 year old Irma comes over and brings out big trashcan on wheels into the yard for us and neighbor across the street Gloria looks after the place from her living room.

It isn't mayberry, but it is a place where I feel comfortable, as does my wife. So we are comfortable without guns, although I'm sure many neighbors have them, and back to my wife in her car going through the intercities, I wouldn't want her to feel comfort in packing heat, I know some big strong thug could wrestle it out of her hand and likely kill her with it - better to think clearly and run a few lights - but these towns are 40-to miles from here, it isn't West plain Field, Roselle, East Orange or any neighborhoods which "Like in the movie Gran Torino" have changed and not for the better, we are in that 1000ft of a school zone area (which means nothing really) but I'm trying to paint a picture of how MUCH of the State is, you can't go by the innercities or drugridden wastelands. Here the only ruff and tumble action you'll ever see is on the highschool football field - within walking distance from my house Smiley

Hope I painted a good photo of what differs from how MUCH of the state is preceived, and don't think those towns and cities with high crime-rates are not everything that is said about them, it is all true - you just need to stay away from them, unless you are going to the USS New JERSEY, State Aquarium and other highly protected tourist attractions.

Anyone living in those areas NEED weapons just to get to work each day I imagine, luckily we are far from that gangland violence and thus feel safe here, not just choosing to take the chance of not protecting ourselves, but feeling safe and having the freedom to not bear arms. Honestly, it is a good feeling, just locking the doors at night and not having to board them shut or sleep with a loaded weapon under my pillow and under my bed.

Again, this post is not for my mindset, it is about and for people who love their guns for all the reasons they mention, I only input that in my case, I feel safe without the need to arm our home. Peace.

P.S. in case you missed my message, Riverrat was looking for you in Ventrilo Last night - you came on Ajaz Chat minutes after he went off to bed.
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« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2009, 09:05:24 AM »

interesting,  you mention those towns are 30-40 miles away,  how long before they are your town?  a few years?  a decade?  a generation?    what about those people who live  in the "gran Torino" area?   want laws to disarm them?

understanding and apperciating your choice to not carry,  you also have to appreciate and support those that do.   Some of use are runners,  some are fighters....  no dishoner in either.  but  Coke is illegal,  and crimanals have it in spades...  the same is true for weapons....  so  until we have some tom cruise style pre-cogs.....  the police are generally the cleanup crew.   

I live in the middle of a state where  carry is absolutly prohibited....  and yet...  shootings and stabbings occurr...  actualy just wedsday   in a small town in teh middle of nowhere  (no murders in this county in 20 years)  a woman was stabbed by her ex BF...  story has it (don't have teh facts myself)  that he went  out to the truck to get his knife.....
wish she had a gun,  would have saved us some tax dollars and her a trip on the lifeflight.
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« Reply #88 on: February 27, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »

Quote
I know some big strong thug could wrestle it out of her hand and likely kill her with it

that's why training is important.  you have to know that if you are in real danger and you pull the gun, you use it.  you don't just wave it. 

i live out in the country.  should be pretty safe.  the crazy i found on my property had taken a bus from town and walked around until he landed out by my barn.  then there is my neighbors mentally ill and sometimes violent son....

you should not own a gun unless you are reasonably certain that you can kill.  you should not own a gun without proper training in use. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #89 on: February 27, 2009, 10:14:20 AM »

>>>>Anyone living in those areas NEED weapons just to get to work each day I imagine,<<<<

Thank You.... I live in he same type place, except I don't feel the need to lock my doors. I don't even carry a key to my doors. Haven't locked them in the 18 years I have lived here. I have, tho, traveled to many inner cities in many states in the last 25 years, delivering machinery and picking up large amounts of cash. The need for the choice of carrying is a definite. I have never heard of anyone seriously recommending it become mandatory. I am glad to see you agree that the "National" law should allow those who wish, to carry the equipment needed to protect themselves.

Example: No gun will protect your home when no one is home. My son's home in 1/4 mile from the nearest neighbor, at the end of a dead end road. When he bought it, it was burglarized twice the first year. We went to Texas on a business trip, and while there, secured 24 live Diamondback rattlesnakes. We then commenced to spread the word around town that he had them. It has now been 14 years, and he hasn't had a break in since.

What I am trying to say is, citizens should have the means to protect themselves, whether by firearm or otherwise, from an individual, or a group, as the case may be.
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« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2009, 05:36:11 PM »

Jody, you have been through a horrifying event.  I am so grateful that that man carried on and left your property and you did not have to resort to any extreme measures.  It is also so wonderful that you have our forum to tell your tale in, that helps to heal.  Next time though, if something comes up that you need to have many shoulders to lean on, please, please, make a new post, so we can be there for you, you know there are always times when we need those shoulders, and the more shoulders we can lean on, the faster we can heal.  I thank my lucky stars that your day turned out OK.  Have a most awesome and great day, health, love our life.  Cindi
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« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2010, 08:36:48 AM »

That's unreasonable, and the government doesn't make any money at all off that solution. We should require all tables to be registered. The fee collected would help offset (well, in theory, in actuallity it would fund a Bingo Museum built by the governor's brother) the cost of a newly created "Bureau of Tables" which would maintain a list of table owners.

This can run and run, keep it up! Smiley
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« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2010, 09:31:05 AM »

you must have been bored to dig this out  grin

have they taken your table knife yet?   evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2010, 10:19:10 AM »

you must have been bored to dig this out  grin

have they taken your table knife yet?   evil

Gotcha! Smiley  but not with any evil intent rolleyes
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« Reply #94 on: March 04, 2010, 11:53:39 AM »

Sorry it took me so long to arrive on this thread.

First:  I would rather have a gun and not need one than need a gun and not have one.

second:  the statistics speak for themselves.  The vast majority of gun owners are responsible law abiding people.  These law abiding people have a right to defend themselves against the non-law abiding people. (only outlaws will have guns)

third: Kennesaw GA has a city ordinance requiring every household to own a firearm.  Kennesaw has the lowest per cap crime rate in metro Atlanta.  Compare that to Chicago.

fourth: most robberies may not be done when someone is home but EVERY rape, assault and kidnapping IS. 

Lastly gun control is not gun control at all.  It is PEOPLE control.  It has become blatantly clear especially in recent months that our current administration does not want to govern or lead.  They want to RULE.  To achieve this goal they must defeat the ability of the people to fight back.  If we want to remain a country of the people by the people we need our guns.   

PS: PVC pipe makes a great yard safe.....I have heard   
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« Reply #95 on: March 04, 2010, 02:01:05 PM »

By the time police arrive,it's usually to investigate a crime scene,not to save the citizen.When conronted with an armed burglar ,hitting him with the phone after calling 911 is pretty useless.
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« Reply #96 on: March 04, 2010, 03:40:58 PM »

Everyone in our family has helped with varmint control.  We have problems with woodchuck, fox and coyotes.  Guns are a tool for us.  We know where they are kept and they are ready to use.

I started a July 4th tradition about 15 years ago of spending a several hours shooting with family and friends. It gives everyone a chance to shoot a wide variety of firearms. And everyone there gets a chance to practice and learn responsible gun use.  BB guns, black powder, shotguns and rifles from .22 up to .458wm.

I always told my kids that the gun to use for intruder defense is one of our double-barreled shotguns with buckshot loads.   
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« Reply #97 on: March 04, 2010, 03:55:33 PM »

my brother takes his kids and wife out shooting all the time.  last may i drove down and met my brothers, sister, and english BIL for a camping trip.  my BIL was a little shocked when we all pulled out the weapons we had with us to compare.  he was a good sport.  we even got pics of him holding (unloaded) .45s.  he wanted the pics because he said his friends at home would never believe him without them .  grin
he also kept a bi-mart ad that i had used to wrap some stuff i sent to them.  he was shocked that you could buy food, nappies, and weapons in the same store!  he took it to work to show the guys.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #98 on: March 04, 2010, 04:52:04 PM »

you must have been bored to dig this out  grin


Work+Computer+Boredom and a cracked rib but that's another story. Actually 'keep it up' was not a facetious remark as I'm quite interested in the different viewpoints being expressed. Being from a country that has lost a lot of its traditions of hunting (except the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible) with guns. I am supprised there seems to be few of Beemasters viewpoint to balance the discussion, maybe 'coffee house' attracts more people of one persuasion. Still for an outsider it is an insight to the American way of life, as I said keep it up! Smiley
Regards
cider
PS If anyone thought to acquire RPGs the men in black overalls and balaclavas would be around in no time, and they don't take prisoners.   
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« Reply #99 on: March 04, 2010, 08:42:03 PM »

It's not guns or triggers that kill people it's bullets that do.

Well if you use a shotgun, you don't need any bullets.

It ain't the fall that kills ya.  It's the landing.  rolleyes

If everything were built out of foam rubber, nobody would ever get hurt.
Oh! wait! you could suffocate in foam rubber!

Maybe we could build everything out of something non suffocating, that is safe and non toxic.  Then we could mandate it's use (to protect the people).   grin

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"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson
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