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Author Topic: I must protest  (Read 11053 times)
Big John
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 03:24:49 PM »

One reason I served 4 years in the Marines to protect the 2nd amendment and my right to have guns and bullets for protection and hunting, it is not the guns that kill, it is the people that pull the trigger (been their). You can lay a loaded gun down for years and it will not jump up and shoot anyone.  cheer
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 04:00:28 PM »

I can honestly see why MOST of the world think we are a gun crazed society - I'll have to agree with Mick on this one (nothing he wrote here, just something he said in voice chat one time).

On a final and lighter note, I remember a TV show where a woman killed her husband with a frozen leg of lamb. After that she cooked it and called the cops who sat there unknowingly eating the evidence. So we're all wrong, it's not guns that kill people, it's legs of lamb that do! Fin.
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2009, 06:20:31 PM »

Well all I can say is ,, when you pry it from my cold dead hands, thats when I'll give up my right to have and bear arms.!!
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2009, 06:22:25 PM »

I must protest....

sheeple


It's not the guns but the people that pull the trigger.


Well from a SHEEPS perspective, mint and rosemary is pretty scarey, too.


But it goes well with the Baklava.

Quote from: beemaster
I would pity the man who harms my loved ones, he would not live long except to suffer extreme pain before his slow death. I don't need weapons to achieve this, just money enough to pay someone to do the dirty for me.

I'd rather take steps to protect my loved ones, including arming them & teaching them how to protect themselves. My teenage daughter can outshoot her cop-brother, and my wife can outshoot all of us.


Revenge is a dish best served cold and at one's own hand.  Me, I don't worry to much about it, if they threaten my loved ones in my presence they are the one's who are going to be fitted for a body bag. 

Quote
Quote
...in the area I'm brought up in, we tend to leave most the guns to those we entrust to enforce the laws with.

The problem is that Police don't "protect", they investigate crimes. You can't carry a policeman in your pocket or have one in the nightstand.

If you depend on the Police to protect you, they'll show up after you or your family members are dead and promise to do the best they can to find the killer.


By U.S. Supreme Court findings (4) the Police have no obligation to protect anyone from anyone or anybody.  The government reserves the power to investigate and prosecute the commissions of crime--there is no protect in there.  The 2nd amendment gives you, the individual citizen, the power and authority to protect you and yours.

Quote
At Columbine and Virgina Tech, the shooting only ended when the shooters decided to quit. At Pearl, Mississippi, the shooter was stopped by the vice principal who ran to his truck & got his gun.
http://www.davekopel.com/2a/othwr/principal&gun.htm
The church shooting at Wedgewood Baptist near Ft. Worth ended only when the shooter decided to quit. The shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs ended when a lady took a revolver from her purse and dropped him.
http://www.ppfc.org/nl200801.pdf


Do you remember the Big Shootout in LA a number of years ago.  Two bank robbers had armed themselves with weapons currently deemed illegal in the United States, Fully automatic rifles with drum magazines that held up to 100 rounds each, at least 6 rifles, plus handguns, and more than a dozen drums of ammo plus a good number of 20-30 round clips.  The bank robbers were also wearing body armor as good as or better than what the police had.  Long story short, the battle raged for nearly 4 hours because someone decided that the police no longer had need of shotguns or rifles in their squad cars.  The point is the criminals will arm themselves regardless of any laws that might restrict the ownership or use of weapons.  If you insist on placing yourself in a disadvantage which forces you to be the victim, that is up to you.  But, please, don't try to blame it on my refusal to make the same submission.

Quote
In my opinion, "Gun-free zones" are invitations to mass shootings.


I agree whole heartedly with that sentiment.
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2009, 07:03:21 PM »

Haha Brian you put that smiley right in your signature Smiley I agree with no restrictions.
 An armed populace needs to be in place so that we can protect ourselves, even overthrow the government if necessary. That is why it's there. I know, we don't need to do that now, but why would you give it up? It's written in the constitution for a reason. Think about it. Once you give it up, its gone.
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2009, 09:27:52 PM »

I can honestly see why MOST of the world think we are a gun crazed society - I'll have to agree with Mick on this one (nothing he wrote here, just something he said in voice chat one time).

On a final and lighter note, I remember a TV show where a woman killed her husband with a frozen leg of lamb. After that she cooked it and called the cops who sat there unknowingly eating the evidence. So we're all wrong, it's not guns that kill people, it's legs of lamb that do! Fin.

You know Beemaster, what you said about the leg of lamb reminds me of something that actually did happen (not the eating it part) to a couple here where I live.
He was a very prominant doctor and he came home from work and was fighting with his wife. There was a frozen leg of lamb on the counter she had taken out for dinner and he beat her to death with it.
I know their son and he was about 16 years old at the time, horrifying.

Now see, that show will have people out buying legs of lamb to protect themselves  tongue
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2009, 10:18:55 PM »

To me giving up the right to self-defense would be worse than eating soup with a fork. 

I must admit, I just like the sound of the futility of eating soup with a fork.

Almost anything can be made into a weapon that can kill someone.  How many spy movies have the hero killing a bad guy with an ink pen?
And when it comes right down to it you don't even need a weapon: re Arsenic and Old Lace.  Still laugh when I see that play.
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kathyp
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2009, 12:32:04 AM »

we'll be like the brits pretty soon and have to sign a form to buy kitchen knives!

eating soup with a fork would be a great diet program!
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 12:38:56 AM »


eating soup with a fork would be a great diet program!

Not the kind of soup I make....I suppose technically it is probably stew, but it sounds stupid to call it "pea stew"....
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Rick
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 12:42:44 AM »

Here is what you do. You use the fork to spear any chunks big enough to stab with a fork, and then tilt the bowl up to your lips and drink the rest.


Or just forget the fork and start sipping.
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2009, 05:08:23 PM »

I have to say, I see Beemaster's point. It would be much more help with the population explosion to kill of a few million, like Germany did, instead of some drunk only getting a half dozen or so. Let's take the guns away from the populace, so the gov can be taken over by one man and repeat the 30's and 40's in Germany. It should help with the population explosion, reduce the hothouse effect, slow global warming, protect the ozone layer, ETC. Yeah, let's make the ability of the commoners to defend themselves totally impossible. Just ignore that old constitution, it was written by a bunch of old cronies who are now long dead, anyway.
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2009, 06:41:09 PM »

I have to say, I see Beemaster's point. It would be much more help with the population explosion to kill of a few million, like Germany did, instead of some drunk only getting a half dozen or so. Let's take the guns away from the populace, so the gov can be taken over by one man and repeat the 30's and 40's in Germany. It should help with the population explosion, reduce the hothouse effect, slow global warming, protect the ozone layer, ETC. Yeah, let's make the ability of the commoners to defend themselves totally impossible. Just ignore that old constitution, it was written by a bunch of old cronies who are now long dead, anyway.
Y'all had me scared for a minute, Iddee!  shocked
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2009, 07:29:45 PM »

I can eat soup with chopsticks.  Also, I will never give up "my rights" to bear arms.  By the way... I usually drink my soup right out of the bowl w/o the use of a spoon.. Also, I can, if I have to, take care of business w/o the use of a hand gun.
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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2009, 11:29:18 AM »

I like to hunt as much as the next guy, but never keep a gun in my house. You've gotta be delusional to think it makes you more safe.
If someone dies from your gun, heres how it plays out...
57% suicide, Most likely a male in your family.
39% You or someone with access to your gun killing someone.
3% Accidental/unintentional, Double that number, If you have kids.
-1% Self defense/other

From DOJ statistic 2001
Everyone likes to think they could be the action hero in their own life(myself included). The truth is having a gun around usually ends with your son,father, or yourself getting drunk and painting the walls with brain matter.
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Keith13
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« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2009, 02:01:44 PM »

I like to hunt as much as the next guy, but never keep a gun in my house. You've gotta be delusional to think it makes you more safe.
If someone dies from your gun, heres how it plays out...
57% suicide, Most likely a male in your family.
39% You or someone with access to your gun killing someone.
3% Accidental/unintentional, Double that number, If you have kids.
-1% Self defense/other

From DOJ statistic 2001
Everyone likes to think they could be the action hero in their own life(myself included). The truth is having a gun around usually ends with your son,father, or yourself getting drunk and painting the walls with brain matter.


You ever see the statistics of parking a car at your house. You should see what kind of damages those things do a year. Or what about those salt shakers you should see the statistics of people who die of heart disease a year truly scary. Really puts gun deaths into perspective.

Keith
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« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2009, 04:23:25 PM »

I like to hunt as much as the next guy, but never keep a gun in my house. You've gotta be delusional to think it makes you more safe.
If someone dies from your gun, heres how it plays out...
57% suicide, Most likely a male in your family.
39% You or someone with access to your gun killing someone.
3% Accidental/unintentional, Double that number, If you have kids.
-1% Self defense/other

From DOJ statistic 2001
Everyone likes to think they could be the action hero in their own life(myself included). The truth is having a gun around usually ends with your son,father, or yourself getting drunk and painting the walls with brain matter.


Statistics massaged into shape courtesy of the Brady Bunch  rolleyes

Now read the truth.

a little synopsis:

Quote
GUNS AND CRIME PREVENTION
Myth: Private ownership of guns is not effective in preventing crime
Fact: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times – more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.112 Of these instances, 15.6% of the people using a firearm defensively stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.
Fact: In 83.5% (2,087,500) of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or used force first, proving that guns are very well suited for self-defense.
Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers.
Fact: Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than one in a thousand instances is the attacker killed.113
Fact: For every accidental death, suicide, or homicide with a firearm, 10 lives are saved through defensive use.
114Fact: When using guns in self-defense:
• 83% of robbery victims were not injured.
• 88% of assault victims were not hurt.
• 76% of all self-defense use of guns never involve firing a single shot.
Fact: After the implementation of Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibiting handgun possession for protection, the “breaking and entering” crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the American rate.115
Myth: Only police should have guns
Fact: “...most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”116
Fact: 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.117

111 J. Gayle Mericle, 1989, Unpublished report of the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad, Will and Grundy Counties
112 Fall 1995, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology
113 FBI, “Critical Incidents in Policing”, 1991
114 National Crime Victimization Survey, 1979-1985
115 Pat Mayhew, Residential Burglary: a Comparison of the United States, Canada and England and Wales (Nat'l Inst. of Just., Wash., D.C., 1987)
116 Wright and Rossi, “”Armed and Considered Dangerous: a Survey of Felons and Their Firearms”, 1986
117 Cramer C and Kopel D. "Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws." Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994 Gun Facts Version 5.0 Page 16
Copyright 2008, Guy Smith www.GunFacts.info All Rights Reserved


Fact: Police have trouble keeping their own guns. Hundreds of firearms are missing from the FBI and 449 of them have been involved in crimes.118
Fact: People who saw the helplessness of the L.a. Police Department during the 1992 King Riots or the looting and violence in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina know that citizens need guns to defend themselves.
Myth: You are more likely to be injured or killed using a gun for self-defense
Fact: You are far more likely to survive a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun. In episodes where a robbery victim was injured, the injury/defense rates were:119
Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%
Myth: Guns are not effective in preventing crime against women
Fact: Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% (192,500) are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Fact: When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of rape attacks are completed, compared to 32% when unarmed.120
Fact: The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the benefits are smaller at 1.4 times more likely to receive a serious injury.121
Fact: 28.5% of women have a gun in the house.122
Fact: 41.7% of women either own or have rapid access to guns.123
Fact: In 1966, the city of Orlando responded to a wave of sexual assaults by offering firearms training classes to women. Rapes dropped by nearly 90% the following year.
Rape Rates 1995–2003 (per 100,000 pop.)
1995
2003
% Change
+26.5
Australia
72.5
91.7
+59.8
United Kingdom
43.3
69.2

United States
-13.5
37.1
32.1

118 ABC News, July 17, 2001
119 British Home Office – not a “pro-gun” organization by any means
120 U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979
121 Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey
122 Smith, T: 2001 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center: Research Findings. National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago, December 2001.
123 Ibid


[i[Gun Facts Version 5.0 Page 17
Copyright 2008, Guy Smith www.GunFacts.info All Rights Reserved
Fact: Firearm availability appears to be particularly useful in avoiding rape. Australia and the United Kingdom virtually banned handgun ownership. During the same period handgun ownership in the United States steadily rose. Yet the rate of rape decreased in the United States, and skyrocketed in the other countries.
Fact: More Americans believe having a gun in the home makes them safer. This belief grows every year the survey is taken.124
Fact: Arthur Kellerman, a researcher whose work is often cited by gun control groups said “If you've got to resist, you're chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah.”125[/i]


Don't want to keep a gun?  Don't.  But don't get in the way of my right to own one for my defense, and the defense of what I hold dear.
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« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2009, 04:55:23 PM »

Ann, I am right there with you!  Aparently many don't read the info on alcohol related injuries & deaths, or how bout people plopping their most cherished gift (their kids) into a car when 16.  My sister is one such person..she rags on me all the time about my guns, but thinks nothing of teens driving or letting her daughter get into a car with teen drivers... shocked I bet everyone can name a family member or friend that has beed affected by traffic and or alcohol. I bet know that when the &^%$#$ hits the fan & we are under attack she would be one of the first to hide out @ my place telling me to get onto my roof & aim at the top of the hill... grin  J
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« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2009, 05:04:51 PM »

no need for me to comment!!   grin
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2009, 05:09:12 PM »

I've been a criminal defense attorney for close to 20 yrs now. I have representeed over 18K people in those years. Easily 18k. Rarely does a burglary take place when someone is home, and never have I had one w/ a dog unless the burglar/person knew the family. In the handful of times it has occurred, and the homeowner was armed this is the result. One owner missed the burglar, shot his dog w/ first shot. second shot killed burglar, only to find out it was his drunk downs syndrome neighbor. In the other two, both owners missed the burglar. I have also represented a person who shot someone in the back for being in the shed. Right between the shoulder blades This person was retrieving a lawnmower but had wrong house. He thought he was at a co-workers house and had permission to get mower since his broke. He lived, but lost spleen. I have had cops shoot at my clients, but never hit them. the handgun is a practically worthless homeprotection tool. It is not accurate under ideal circumstances. It can kill your children in the next room. Your kids can gain access to it. suicides, accidents. I might suggest if you want to protect yourself, use a riot shotgun w/ large shot. Makes hell of a noise when you bleep-it, you will hit your target and not kill your kids or neighbors as bullet stops in wall baords. I am also againts this concept that the 2ndA somehow permits the purchase of a 50cal weapon for example. The right to bear arms meant back then, muskets and bayonets, not granade launchers
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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2009, 05:31:42 PM »

Konasdad, did you miss this?

>>>>Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers.<<<<

A handgun is normally not used to kill, it is used the vast majority of the time to prevent killing. I carry one at all times. I have never used it. I only need to let it be known it is in my hand inside my pocket and the scene suddenly becomes safe. It has saved the day many times, and no statistics were made.

I think your "handful" of times it went bad, compared to the millions of times it saved the day, is totally minuscule in comparison.


 
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