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Author Topic: OK, I'll start, a big fatty around the campfire  (Read 6329 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2009, 07:18:50 PM »

i don't have a problem with medicinal use of MJ, but....since i live in a medical marijuana state, i have seen first hand how well this doesn't work. 

 1st, you have the issue of acquisition.  oregon overcame this by allowing a person to grow 2 or 3 plants or designate a grower.  every time they bust a place growing 100's of plants, the grower claims to be growing it for others smiley

next  you have the problem of standardization.  we all know there is "good" pot and junk stuff like ditch weed.  a patient would not know, even growing their own plants, the dose from use to use.  a solution is to extract THC and use that, but that takes all the fun out of it...and they say it doesn't work as well.

3rd, pot smoke is very hard on the lungs.  in some comparisons between pot and cigarettes, pot has been found to do more damage.  of course, you don't smoke as much pot (we hope) as cigarettes, but still..who pays for the lung damage to the person who smokes the pot.  chances are, if they are using it medicinally, they are not working. 

what happens in the work place to drug screens?  with HIPAA rules, you can't ask if a person is using a drug legally.  you can only fire them for popping positive on a legal drug if they are impaired, or if you can prove that any use of the drug puts the person or co-workers in danger.  you can fire someone for being drunk on the job.  we know that alcohol stays in the system for a short period of time, so if a worker has alcohol in their system, we know there is a problem.


one of the biggest problems with people who routinly smoke pot is that they become very apathetic.  any number of studies have been done, and we all probably can remember someone who didn't finish school, or blew off friends just because they didn't care any more. 

we already have a problem with young people and alcohol use and abuse.  it's hard to tell a kid they shouldn't drink when they know it suddenly becomes legal after age 21 and they see dad with a beer every night.  seems it would be equally hard to convince kids that they shouldn't do drugs when they know it will suddenly be legal at age 21 and they see mom or dad with pot growing in the garden.

all that said, i'm not sure that it should be a priority of law enforcement to go after people who have enough pot for personal  use.  if they are dealers, or are DUI, they should be busted.  for others, a fine and/or some kind of misdamenor record for the first bust or two would be good enough.  after that, you might find that you have to do something a little more harsh to get folks attention.  30 days as volunteer with teens would do it for me.!!  smiley
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2009, 07:40:11 PM »

Hey Irwin you've heard of the Doobie brothers right?


...JP
I think I have but maybe it was the pot grin
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2009, 08:31:51 PM »

Do you think Frank Sinatra was telling us to do a doobie in this song? Listen for it.

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2009, 09:29:10 PM »

As I mentioned in another post, did everything at least once, nothing now!!!  Carrot Juice anyone?Huh
As have I (except heroin or crack..saw others though..)so when I talk with Chels there isn't anything she could do that I haven't done the equivalent of, or worse!  I can speak from experience why something isn't a good idea! rolleyes  And YES Annette, I would love carrot juice! Wink  J

It certainly helps when dealing with younger ones to have the experience and knowledge to truly understand where they are coming from. I think everyone has to make their own mistakes in life, I wish I could turn back the clock on some of mine, but they were my decision.

I would hate to be a teenager in this day and age. So much to worry about.

You sound like a good mom Jody.

Take care
Annette
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2009, 12:16:56 PM »

I think everyone has to make their own mistakes in life, I wish I could turn back the clock on some of mine, but they were my decision.
Take care
Annette

Annette, something that I would imagine that you understand.....if you could turn back time and change anything in your lifetime, you would not be exactly who you are today.  It is the roads that we travel down our lifetime that make us who we are, you are a beautiful soul, that shines through. 

I have many regrets in my life, I have done some stuff that I too wish I had never done, many, to be exact.  When I think of these things, this thought that I have portrayed to you surfaces, and I feel that what I have done in my past was not really all that bad, because all these things have made me who I am.  And I am proud of who I am.  We are human, we make mistakes, but we are all wonderful in our own little ways.  Have that great day, love and live our great lives.  Cindi
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2009, 12:20:48 PM »

I think everyone has to make their own mistakes in life, I wish I could turn back the clock on some of mine, but they were my decision.
Take care
Annette

Annette, something that I would imagine that you understand.....if you could turn back time and change anything in your lifetime, you would not be exactly who you are today.  It is the roads that we travel down our lifetime that make us who we are, you are a beautiful soul, that shines through. 

I have many regrets in my life, I have done some stuff that I too wish I had never done, many, to be exact.  When I think of these things, this thought that I have portrayed to you surfaces, and I feel that what I have done in my past was not really all that bad, because all these things have made me who I am.  And I am proud of who I am.  We are human, we make mistakes, but we are all wonderful in our own little ways.  Have that great day, love and live our great lives.  Cindi

You should have never sent Whoppo away! You know you miss him, he was the best duck on the planet, except maybe the duck I had last week, it sure was delicious.


...JP
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2009, 12:35:57 PM »

Whee-hee JP!!!   Oh make me laugh that big laugh!!!  Whoppo is definitely "no regrets"!!!!!  Have a great day, love our life, health.  Cindi
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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2009, 12:06:10 PM »

ok i do not use,  (haven't since i was 14) and if i find someone working for me using they will be fired on the spot!  (i would epect someone working for me who has a scrip for the stuff to tell me so they can be put in a job that would be safe)  but i personally think that it should be my choice as the employer,  make it legal,  teach your kids to make good descisions and quit making every thing that people do for recreation a felony,  then too i think it should be legal for parents to supply their OWN children with alcohol in a safe controlled enviroment and teach them to handle it responsibly at a young age instead of suddenly having them handed the responsibility at 21 after they been away from home for 3 years.  jmho
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2009, 12:30:47 PM »

Not doubting anyone here, but we sure have a lot of people who USE to do the stuff - but that was 20, 30 40 years ago - I'll never forget pulling up to a 7-11 one day and a real old timer, full beard and all pulled in next to me and he had a telescoping clip lit and toking away. My first reaction was "good for him" minus the whole driving while smoking part, which I think isn't the place.

But he obviously found something he liked, and he's own beliefs tell him it is HIS WAY of relaxing and enjoying what few years he has left.

I've said, most people do grow up and life's responcibilities change our habits and patterns, but I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with no medical excuse still active and not regretting a minute of it. I may be assuming this part, but I tend to think that MOST of these old time smokers are FAR LESS into alcohol because of all the nasty (drank to much) side effects.

But I bet the best job in the retirement villiage is the dealer - he has a steady group of customers and as they die off, new old people (oxymoronic I know) move is and fill his void. Some hippies never stopped too I imagine. It would be interesting if the largest group of users were in their 60's, which doesn't seem so impossible knowing that the children of the Boomers were a wild buunch in their own right.

Note I think the original question that started these two posts MAY have been misinterpreted: Iwasn't asking who would join in to a camp first burning party, I asked who would be shocked or offended by it, or who would accept it because they have experienced such behaviour before during their lives. I agree, each to their own "but until" someone started pulling out rolled up dollar bills or needles - I'd be neither shocked or offended. When something is legal in many states, decriminalized in many others and medically useful for so many ailments - who am I to cringe at someone adults choice of getting hammered with booze or relaxing a different way to enjoy that campfire.

I guess the truth comes out the next morning when most of the crowd feels like their heads were ran over by a train and barfing in the toilet while the other group is having their second bowl of cornflakes with banannas, then we'll see who has a better ride home Smiley

I'll end in a statement by my dad, a 5th grade educated man who had amazing words of wisdom I often share here "There is nothing worse than being the ONLY SOBER PERSON in a room full of DRUNKS!" I don't ever see a Beemaster Gathering reaching such levels, but it is a wise saying about booze - I don't believe that my Dads saying would hold true with our other control group!



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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2009, 12:44:53 PM »

ok i do not use,  (haven't since i was 14) and if i find someone working for me using they will be fired on the spot!  (i would epect someone working for me who has a scrip for the stuff to tell me so they can be put in a job that would be safe)  but i personally think that it should be my choice as the employer,  make it legal,  teach your kids to make good descisions and quit making every thing that people do for recreation a felony,  then too i think it should be legal for parents to supply their OWN children with alcohol in a safe controlled enviroment and teach them to handle it responsibly at a young age instead of suddenly having them handed the responsibility at 21 after they been away from home for 3 years.  jmho


I just have to ask, when you say "someone using" do you mean while on the job or any time during your employment - if the latter, do you pay them 24 hours a day?

Also, swinging to the FAR LEFT about letting your kids drink at an early age in a controlled enviroment, so they can see the effects of alcohol, so they are ready for when they are 21 - I know of people who have let their kids taste booze to see how nasty it is, but never taken it to the level of intoxication, so they can see how they could lose control of a car, etc., maybe letting them suffer a hangover. I'm not sating I disagree, life is tough and ANYTHING that would stop your 17 year old from drinking and driving into a tree is worth the effort. It's just that I'm not sure (respectfully) how these two examples you made justify each other? Thanks for clearing that up.

I agree about using ON THE JOB, but if 16 hours earlier upon returning home from work someone lights one up, surely you can't think that the next work day he/she is under the influence?

And if your kids just happen to LIKE getting hammered, did you really accomplish the goal you set with them? I'm just trying to figure out what you wrote, I get analized frequently especially during my long posts. I try to close any loop-holes I create and your one paragraph post has me confused, just hoping you expand on your theories Hillbilly, thanks Smiley
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2009, 02:04:51 PM »

john i want em sober and safe when they're on the job.  i dont care what they do on their own time.  dont figger its any of my business
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2009, 02:12:22 PM »

about teaching the kids to handle alcohol responsibly,  it was never forbidden in my house when i was growing up.  the only rule was if you have one you dont leave the house.  there fore it was never that big a thing to have a drink,  we were taught to be in control of our selves at all times and we were taught that drugs and alcohol adversely affect your self control.  a beer or even two was ok getting plastered was frowned upon, i still to this day will have one or two at home in the evening but if i pop a top i'm in for the night,  i wont drive.  and i hope i taught my daughters that same mindset
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2009, 02:16:12 PM »

Quote
I agree about using ON THE JOB, but if 16 hours earlier upon returning home from work someone lights one up, surely you can't think that the next work day he/she is under the influence?

how would you know?  thinking someone is impaired and knowing it are two different things.  you can test for alcohol and know.  you can test for THC, but you won't know when it was ingested.  if you fire someone because you think they are impaired, you will have your skivvies sued off if you can't prove it.
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2009, 02:49:36 PM »

The whole testing issue is a hard issue indeed. Knowing when an employee ingests something when there is no testing process (even in todays world of magical medicine) the only thing you would be able to go on is the persons actions, wtc., but again - then you are playing doctor and yes Kathy, you could truly see yourself in court.

I guess in this case, you either trust your employees or you don't. If they are to be "straight" at work and you cannot trust them to be so, then there is obviously no need for testing, just fire them for being irrisponcible.

Every drug has a threshold, even THC when measured at rediculously high levels has an effective time of a few hours. Saying 16 hours in my mind is safe unless of course they are mixing it with other nastier things.

You either trust them to come to work sober and able to effectively do their job or you don't.

Hillybilly:

My parents were never so liberal minded on alcohol or anything, I cannot really relate to your situation, but thank you for explaning it to me. It shows we all come from very different backgrounds indeed. Best wishes with the girls!!!!!

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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2009, 05:49:43 PM »

about teaching the kids to handle alcohol responsibly,  it was never forbidden in my house when i was growing up.  the only rule was if you have one you don't leave the house.  there fore it was never that big a thing to have a drink,  we were taught to be in control of our selves at all times and we were taught that drugs and alcohol adversely affect your self control.  a beer or even two was ok getting plastered was frowned upon, i still to this day will have one or two at home in the evening but if i pop a top i'm in for the night,  i wont drive.  and i hope i taught my daughters that same mindset

I don't have kids so I don't know what I will do yet.
But this was the exact way I was brought up. I had a beer or two fishing with my father on occasions,  but if I had gotten drunk my world would have come to a painful end by my father evil. But it was seen as OK to have a beer or two with the family during family events. But again I was raised in South Louisiana so I'm sure drinking is seen in a much better light down here, heck the bars are open 24/7.
As far as the doobies go I was never a big smoker it made me sick so you can have it if you want it. I work in the petrochemical industry where drug testing is very very stressed so if you smoke you don't work its just that simple.

Keith
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« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2009, 09:51:25 AM »

The discussion so far has not dealt with Marijuana as a healing medicinal.  Marijuana has been used in many parts of the world as a healing medication for thousands of years.  Marijuana for example helps Alzheimers sufferers feel happier with improved memory and appetite for a few hours every day. Thats right you can see uncle Jack laugh again and recognise family members who feel so much better seeing uncle Jack more like his old self. There is nothing in our line up of ever costlier drugs that is more effective in treating all dementias and you can grow it in your back yard.  That Marijuana can help dyslexia, sleep Apnia, eating disorders, ADDT and a host of bowel problems and the list goes on is now common knowledge.  Legal drugs alcohol and sugar cured tobacco kill vast numbers of people annually, yet to this day Marijuana, a controlled substance, has not killed anyone.  Legalise Marijuana now and stop splitting hairs.
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« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2009, 10:06:30 AM »

Quote
yet to this day Marijuana, a controlled substance, has not killed anyone.

how do you know?


Quote
Marijuana for example helps Alzheimers sufferers feel happier with improved memory and appetite for a few hours every day. Thats right you can see uncle Jack laugh again and recognise family members who feel so much better seeing uncle Jack more like his old self

studies to back this up?

pot is quite hard on the lungs.  some studies say it does more damage than equal amounts of cigarette smoke.   it alters ones perception of reality. it slows reactions.
 to say that it is not dangerous, is simply wrong.
 
legalizing it is a different argument.  if you want to win that argument, you need statistics that prove legal pot is better for all than illegal pot.

i don't have a problem with medicinal use, but we have plenty of drugs that are controlled and used as medicine.  medicinal use is not an argument for legalization.
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« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2009, 02:47:00 PM »

The discussion so far has not dealt with Marijuana as a healing medicinal.  Marijuana has been used in many parts of the world as a healing medication for thousands of years.  Marijuana for example helps Alzheimers sufferers feel happier with improved memory and appetite for a few hours every day. Thats right you can see uncle Jack laugh again and recognise family members who feel so much better seeing uncle Jack more like his old self. There is nothing in our line up of ever costlier drugs that is more effective in treating all dementias and you can grow it in your back yard.  That Marijuana can help dyslexia, sleep Apnia, eating disorders, ADDT and a host of bowel problems and the list goes on is now common knowledge.  Legal drugs alcohol and sugar cured tobacco kill vast numbers of people annually, yet to this day Marijuana, a controlled substance, has not killed anyone.  Legalise Marijuana now and stop splitting hairs.


Laughing hysterically, no offense, whom, people with anorexia? Cause the last time I checked, you smoke, things get funny and you cannot stuff enough food down your pie hole to save your life!

I have to run back out but later, I'll describe my first doobie experience, that involved food, lots of it!


...JP
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« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2009, 04:40:09 PM »

pot is quite hard on the lungs.  some studies say it does more damage than equal amounts of cigarette smoke.   it alters ones perception of reality. it slows reactions.
 to say that it is not dangerous, is simply wrong.
 
legalizing it is a different argument.  if you want to win that argument, you need statistics that prove legal pot is better for all than illegal pot.

Pot does not only have to be smoked.....there are internal uses of the substance.  CONTROLLED marijuana.  Grown and tested to contain specific levels of THC, or whatever the pain-reducing chemical is, without any other narcotic additives.....which is so common amongst street marijuana.  I do not know enough to comment much further about this, but I know that laughing reduces pain, I know that laughing increases serotonin levels, I know that eating increases serotonin levels as well, especially certain foods.  Wish I hadn't started this thread, is has really opened a pretty big can of worms and that was not what I intended.....have a great day, health, Cindi
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« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2009, 05:12:41 PM »

pot is quite hard on the lungs.  some studies say it does more damage than equal amounts of cigarette smoke.   it alters ones perception of reality. it slows reactions.
 to say that it is not dangerous, is simply wrong.
 
legalizing it is a different argument.  if you want to win that argument, you need statistics that prove legal pot is better for all than illegal pot.

Pot does not only have to be smoked.....there are internal uses of the substance.  CONTROLLED marijuana.  Grown and tested to contain specific levels of THC, or whatever the pain-reducing chemical is, without any other narcotic additives.....which is so common amongst street marijuana.  I do not know enough to comment much further about this, but I know that laughing reduces pain, I know that laughing increases serotonin levels, I know that eating increases serotonin levels as well, especially certain foods.  Wish I hadn't started this thread, is has really opened a pretty big can of worms and that was not what I intended.....have a great day, health, Cindi

Well, I guess I won't be telling my story then.


...JP
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