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Author Topic: hive bodies  (Read 1402 times)

Offline T.Smith

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hive bodies
« on: December 04, 2008, 08:04:19 PM »
I have been using ten frames on all my brood chambers. I have heard that some of you use 9. Is there any advantages or disadvantages to either.  Which do you prefer and why.    Thanks

Offline deantn

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 08:17:40 PM »
Use 10 in all my brood boxes, using deeps for brood. If you are using mediums it is better to use 10 frames per box IMHO.

Offline 1of6

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 08:30:21 PM »
10 in the brood chambers and 9 in the supers might be what you're looking for.  Using 9 in the supers instead of 10 forces the bees to draw each frame out a little deeper, and makes it easier to uncap.  Once you've switched your supers to 9, you shouldn't have to work to cut in further to reach recessed cell cappings - they should all stick out past the edge of the frame.  There is an ever-so-slight gain on storage volume, but it's very slight.  You can use the metal frame rest converters -or- the comb-shaped metal spacers that you just pass over the top bars.  This is what I use, and I only need one of them.  Don't try converting to 9 until you have frames that are drawn out.

Hope this helps.

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 09:02:07 PM »
I have been using ten frames on all my brood chambers. I have heard that some of you use 9. Is there any advantages or disadvantages to either.  Which do you prefer and why.    Thanks

9 frames in the brood chamber is begging for problems. The use of 9 frames is sometimes used in the honey supers  but IMO should never be used in the brood chamber, unless you like loads of burr, cross, and brace comb, double comb on 1 frames, build out of wax so adjacent frames are unremoveable etc.
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Offline BjornBee

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2008, 09:07:11 PM »
Yep, 10 in the brood chamber and 9 in the supers.

You can really mess up proper clustering and bee space associated problems with only 9 in the brood chamber. No advantage of 9 in the brood chamber.
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Offline Nate

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 09:57:51 PM »
Or you can be like us simple minded folks and just use 10fr mediums for everything.... no worries  8-)

Offline T.Smith

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2008, 10:43:34 PM »
Thank yall

Offline steveouk

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 09:41:52 PM »
all my deeps bar one are 10 frame however the other deep is 9 frame. I see no difference between having the 10 frame deep and the 9 frame deep

Offline BjornBee

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 11:19:37 PM »
On the surface, you may not see a difference. But if you analyze comb utilization, the area that a clusters can keep warm, and other aspects of not wasting space in the brood chamber, then there is a huge difference in amounts of brood raised, which in turn effects many other things.

Bees in the brood chamber only need the minimum cell depth required to produce brood. Excess bee space is wasted resources and cuts into production, etc.

If bees can only cluster a certain size, or a have certain volume in regards to what the beekeeper dictates, then why lower the comb cell count?

I can explain why 9 frames instead of 10 can be a detriment. But there is no reason or benefit that can be shown as to why 9 is better or even non-impacting. There is in fact a negative impact when the comb is spread out beyond what the minimum dictates.

The same forces at play that dictate 10 frames in the brood chamber best, are also seen in reasoning why 9 would be better than 10 in the honey supers.
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: hive bodies
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2008, 09:58:02 PM »
To elaborate a tad:

On the surface, you may not see a difference. But if you analyze comb utilization, the area that a clusters can keep warm, and other aspects of not wasting space in the brood chamber, then there is a huge difference in amounts of brood raised, which in turn effects many other things.

The extra space between frames is essentially wasted and allows pests such as SHB and wax moths easier access to the hive and creates a situation that makes it harder for the bees to police the interior of their own home.
 
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Bees in the brood chamber only need the minimum cell depth required to produce brood. Excess bee space is wasted resources and cuts into production, etc.

How many cells are there on a frame?  Every frame removed from the brood chamber reduces the population the hive can produce which weakens the hive, the extra space is also an impediment.

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If bees can only cluster a certain size, or a have certain volume in regards to what the beekeeper dictates, then why lower the comb cell count?


Lower cell count (less frames) shorts the bees of needed winter stores amoung other things.  This honey and pollen stores equates to a greater propensity for hive loss.  Brood chamber cells are of a given length regardless of the number of frames because the pupae only gets so large and any cell siize larger than that just won't be built.  The shorter combs plus the greater space between frames dictates less stores.  Less frames also enlarges the open air space within the hive.  A healthy hive needs less open air space to cluster space iin order to survive a harsh winter so 9 frames delievers a double whammy.

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I can explain why 9 frames instead of 10 can be a detriment. But there is no reason or benefit that can be shown as to why 9 is better or even non-impacting. There is in fact a negative impact when the comb is spread out beyond what the minimum dictates.

9 frames in a harvestable honey super can only be a possible benefit to the beekeepers. Any imagined advantages of 9 frames is just that: Imagined.
 
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The same forces at play that dictate 10 frames in the brood chamber best, are also seen in reasoning why 9 would be better than 10 in the honey supers.

A debateable benefit, as my experience and observations have been that the beekeeper can harvest more honey from a 10 frame super than a 9 frame super and he doesn't have all the associated burr comb and pest problems that a 9 frame configuration induces.  Too often in 9 frame configurations the combs on either side are drawn out to such a depth that the frame between is not utilized at all....that is not an advantage.

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Offline Michael Bush

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